need tracks German planes(Anton and 109) are almost impossible to shoot down in multiplayer.

[Badders46]

Have you tried re-centering trackIR instead of shooting blind?
 
S!

Hahaha! VR... Not sure why it records like that but I don't seem to be able to change it

Sent from my SM-G780F using Tapatalk

[Ala13_ManOWar]

2 hours ago, Badders46 said:

Hahaha! VR... Not sure why it records like that but I don't seem to be able to change it

Sent from my SM-G780F using Tapatalk
 

You know how it is, whenever you see a vid you move your head like it were live .

 

S!

[grafspee]

VR records from one eye only, it will be always like that.

[Brigg]

for me what is wrong with the damage model is that there doesnt seem to be the correct amount of degradation in perfomance with the axis planes after taking a substantial amount of damage, and then to be able to dogfight as if nothing has happened. whether or not this could also be somthing to do with the desync problems i dont know

Edited June 20, 2021 by Brigg

[JG13Wulf]

On 6/21/2021 at 1:25 AM, Brigg said:

for me what is wrong with the damage model is that there doesnt seem to be the correct amount of degradation in perfomance with the axis planes after taking a substantial amount of damage, and then to be able to dogfight as if nothing has happened. whether or not this could also be somthing to do with the desync problems i dont know

 

This is exactly the same with all plane for the moment. It feel like damage to system is awesome. But no plane seem to suffer anything on their performances or structure.
It seems like any plane can fight until either a part is missing or the engine get damaged.
Damage effect on FM exist but are so small that have no impact on flight.

[Ala13_ManOWar]

I guess planes in real life are mostly hollow structures and a few holes in the skin aren't that much of a trouble, until something important gets hit. We do know structural damage and degradation is modelled since a hit wing, for instance, can detach any moment if you stress it. Perhaps what's wrong is kind of seeking movie like effects in a sim which tryes to keep it real.

 

S!

[NineLine]

On 6/2/2021 at 3:33 AM, Badders46 said:

I am glad I'm not the only one feeling like this...

Last night I engaged an already damaged 109 on the Storm of War server and ended up causing a fire. I broke off and monitored while going to help an ally and ended up engaging the same 109, still on fire who was turning to engage the friendly P-51.

I have, in the past, been set alight and have about 10 seconds before my pilot is dead.

Will try and get the track later but in the meantime, here is a video... Excuse the gunnery!

https://1drv.ms/v/s!Aob5mTv4JnxZilWHnQqg_g7IhngK

Whole thing is about 3:50 and it is probably on fire for the best part of 3 minutes and I'm not sure what happened to it as I lost visual but couldn't see any flaming wrecks...

Sent from my SM-G780F using Tapatalk
 

Do you have a track of this, it could have been a desync in the damage?

[Mogster]

8 minutes ago, Ala13_ManOWar said:

I guess planes in real life are mostly hollow structures and a few holes in the skin aren't that much of a trouble, until something important gets hit. We do know structural damage and degradation is modelled since a hit wing, for instance, can detach any moment if you stress it. Perhaps what's wrong is kind of seeking movie like effects in a sim which tryes to keep it real.

 

S!

Yes, when you llook at a cutaway of a WW2 warbird the wings and fuselage behind the pilot are just empty space. 

[NineLine]

Yes there is a known LOD issues with a number of planes and damage. Its been reported for a while.

[amazingme]

Recently I've noticed that not all the hits are counted.. when using the Battle Damage feature I can see hits on the target that are not counted by BD. Can anybody confirm?

[NineLine]

7 hours ago, amazingme said:

Recently I've noticed that not all the hits are counted.. when using the Battle Damage feature I can see hits on the target that are not counted by BD. Can anybody confirm?

I am not sure the BDA works correctly with the new DM, I'll have to look into it

[Brigg]

On 6/24/2021 at 5:15 PM, Ala13_ManOWar said:

I guess planes in real life are mostly hollow structures and a few holes in the skin aren't that much of a trouble, until something important gets hit. We do know structural damage and degradation is modelled since a hit wing, for instance, can detach any moment if you stress it. Perhaps what's wrong is kind of seeking movie like effects in a sim which tryes to keep it real.

 

S!

So you think it's 100% realistic for planes to be still able to dogfight with 0 to little performance loss whilst being engulfed in fire and spewing out more smoke than a Chinese power station...... Right ok

Edited June 27, 2021 by Brigg

[Ala13_ManOWar]

2 hours ago, Brigg said:

So you think it's 100% realistic for planes to be still able to dogfight with 0 to little performance loss whilst being engulfed in fire and spewing out more smoke than a Chinese power station...... Right ok

 

Did I say that?? But a bunch of holes by themself aren't enough to bring an aeroplane down. It's not a hole that brings down and aircraft, it's where and how the hole is.

 

S!

[Doughguy]

quite a heated debate all over the forum.

in the p51 one sub forum there's the same topic but it's the 50cal thats underpowered.

i made some tracks there.

seriously, one well aimed 1 sec burst into the 109 and that thing goes down in flames.

bear in mind that dead center on its 6 theres and armour plate protecting pilot etc. if you creep up from below or above and shoot from the brownings convergence point of 1100 feet into the engine itll do enough damage so the 109 or 190 catch fire etc. and the pilot will disengengage or at least fuck off low an try to land. satisfactory enough. even for the boys back then. one threat less.

and usually smoking and going down was a kill aswell. not just exploding planes etc..

not been able to sheer off wings or other parts yet let alone make a fighter explode in mid air.

but that is something happening pretty rarely anyway to my knowledge.

but of course if you pepper the enemy all over the place it wont go down as fast. broad light/minor damage vs heavy concentrated damage.

now if aiming was that easy and guys just would hold still...

*shakesfistsandmakesanoopynoises*

i recall one stang pilot mock the german cannon rounds in an interview. saying unless it hit you dead center the exploding round wouldnt do much damage and just punch tiny holes on the stangs skin.

Edited November 11, 2021 by Doughguy

[Davee]

Over the many pages in various threads that discuss the power of various calibre weaponry, one thing is not really discussed in more detail is the iniqueness of the round fired.

Notwithstanding the .50 cal round compared to a 20mm round, the Armour Piercing Incendiary projectile (API) is quite phenomenal in itself. Fired in volume from 6 or 8 barrels can really do a lot of damage. 

Not knowing how the programmers have determined kinetic energy at impact, projectile penetration and then incendiary damage for the .50 cal. API, I'm wondering if the values need tweaking in addition to the damage values in the receiving target?

I would also add the DeWilde .303 for British aircraft to this concern.

Edited November 11, 2021 by Davee

[NineLine]

4 hours ago, Davee said:

Over the many pages in various threads that discuss the power of various calibre weaponry, one thing is not really discussed in more detail is the iniqueness of the round fired.

Notwithstanding the .50 cal round compared to a 20mm round, the Armour Piercing Incendiary projectile (API) is quite phenomenal in itself. Fired in volume from 6 or 8 barrels can really do a lot of damage. 

Not knowing how the programmers have determined kinetic energy at impact, projectile penetration and then incendiary damage for the .50 cal. API, I'm wondering if the values need tweaking in addition to the damage values in the receiving target?

I would also add the DeWilde .303 for British aircraft to this concern.

 

Yes all rounds are considered and modelled based on available data. In many cases its the lack of getting the rounds on target, and in the right spot that becomes the issue here. Nobody has given any evidence that the rounds need tweaking at all.

[amazingme]

On 11/12/2021 at 1:22 AM, NineLine said:

Yes all rounds are considered and modelled based on available data. In many cases its the lack of getting the rounds on target, and in the right spot that becomes the issue here. Nobody has given any evidence that the rounds need tweaking at all.

 When the new DM arrived the 30mm was, let's say, pretty close to what we see in the test above. After some subsequent updates the 30mm got nerfed and now it reached a point where 5 rounds are not enough to destroy any plane, unless you're somehow very lucky and hit a fuel tank with a few of them. There's a thread created with all the details where this behavior was reported to the devs, but no news on this. I hope the devs will fix it and make a proper 30mm round that was used in destroying bombers, in which, it was very efficient, as a matter of fact.

[NineLine]

Oh boy... Nothing was nerfed.

I have not seen any issue with 30mm so you need to supply tracks not post the same video we have all seen hundreds of times.

[Mogster]

On 11/11/2021 at 2:25 PM, Doughguy said:

quite a heated debate all over the forum.

in the p51 one sub forum there's the same topic but it's the 50cal thats underpowered.

i made some tracks there.

seriously, one well aimed 1 sec burst into the 109 and that thing goes down in flames.

bear in mind that dead center on its 6 theres and armour plate protecting pilot etc. if you creep up from below or above and shoot from the brownings convergence point of 1100 feet into the engine itll do enough damage so the 109 or 190 catch fire etc. and the pilot will disengengage or at least fuck off low an try to land. satisfactory enough. even for the boys back then. one threat less.

and usually smoking and going down was a kill aswell. not just exploding planes etc..

not been able to sheer off wings or other parts yet let alone make a fighter explode in mid air.

but that is something happening pretty rarely anyway to my knowledge.

but of course if you pepper the enemy all over the place it wont go down as fast. broad light/minor damage vs heavy concentrated damage.

now if aiming was that easy and guys just would hold still...

*shakesfistsandmakesanoopynoises*

i recall one stang pilot mock the german cannon rounds in an interview. saying unless it hit you dead center the exploding round wouldnt do much damage and just punch tiny holes on the stangs skin.

 

The round hitting and only making small holes sounds like either a miss fire, deflection or one that’s exploded prematurely. He’s a lucky guy.
 

Quite often interviewed frontline WW2 vets seem to have incredible escape stories. We’re only hearing evidence from those guys leading to survivor bias.

Edited November 14, 2021 by Mogster

[amazingme]

17 hours ago, NineLine said:

Oh boy... Nothing was nerfed.

I have not seen any issue with 30mm so you need to supply tracks not post the same video we have all seen hundreds of times.

Maybe the devs haven't seen it yet, otherwise they would've made a proper 30mm. And if ED could increase the size of the upload file (on this forum) to a XXI century value, that would be really great. I can answer sarcastically too, you know.. but that would not help anyone. 

 

[grafspee]

@amazingme5mb limit is quite funny for 2021, but i often find out that large tracks are corrupted, i think ED should fixt this issue in the first place.

And this issue isn't related only to big tracks, just couple minutes ago i tried P-47 vs K-4 fight, when i was watching track, everything as wrong, my P-47 was shooting to ghost plane and K-4 was on my 6 o'clock  . I shoot down K-4, once i fired up track everything was changed. Until this is fixed, nothing will changed.

 

Edited November 15, 2021 by grafspee

[Nealius]

AI unfortunately are still “live” in replays. It would be nice if their decisions were recorded in the track file as well. The only definitive way to test is in MP with a client shooter and client target, then supply both client tracks and the independent server track. 

[NineLine]

On 11/14/2021 at 12:05 PM, amazingme said:

Maybe the devs haven't seen it yet, otherwise they would've made a proper 30mm. And if ED could increase the size of the upload file (on this forum) to a XXI century value, that would be really great. I can answer sarcastically too, you know.. but that would not help anyone. 

 

I just replied to it, but you probably wont like the answer if you are still claim something was 'NERFED'. Also look up file sharing. Many people can easily make small concise tracks to upload here, I am sure you can figure that out as well.

[amazingme]

3 hours ago, NineLine said:

I just replied to it, but you probably wont like the answer if you are still claim something was 'NERFED'. Also look up file sharing. Many people can easily make small concise tracks to upload here, I am sure you can figure that out as well.

 Thank you for your reply. I clearly remember it, when we tested the DM on ED's server right at the beginning, one or two 30mm rounds would rip off the wings and I thought to myself (that too).. "finally, we have a proper DM and a proper 30mm round to play with". Since then, the 30mm was NERFED down a lot. You absolutely don't need ANY track to test it.. it's kind of a nonsense when ED should test it and model it according to reality, in the first place. Reality says: 5 rounds weigh > 1.5kg of high explosive and in spite of that, the planes hit by them are still able to fly. Those are grenades, flying grenades.. Do you really find them properly simulated in the conditioned mentioned above?

 Regarding the upload files on 3rd party site, which I did, the files won't stay too long on those sites, then the devs won't see them and we have to reupload them and we all lose precious time. I do believe ED could afford a proper fileserver for these files.. I really do. Challenge accepted?

 S!

[NineLine]

You are mistaken. Nothing was nerfed. You are also off topic for this thread now. Please use File sharing if you are not able to make a short and concise track showing the issue. 

Back to the original topic, I see no issue currently beyond known issues. Closed.