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Forrestal Update?


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On 9/29/2021 at 4:53 PM, pimp said:

So are these deck crew obsolete now?
 

 

This answers my question unfortunately:
 

 

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24 minutes ago, pimp said:

This answers my question unfortunately:
 

 

Kinda just makes the Forrestal pointless if you have the Tomcat and already have the SC. At least for me. I would have no reason to use it if its just the Stennis that looks different. And reading that quote is not reassuring .Makes me think that is all it will ever be.

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32 minutes ago, Manhorne said:

Kinda just makes the Forrestal pointless if you have the Tomcat and already have the SC. At least for me. I would have no reason to use it if its just the Stennis that looks different. And reading that quote is not reassuring .Makes me think that is all it will ever be.

I really hope HB and ED sort something out with regard to at least some SC functionality (deck crew, comms and the LSO station are must haves for me personally), for SC owners.

Right now, as much as I love what I'm seeing so far, it just seems to be, as you said, a remodelled Stennis (though HB's modelling looks incredibly good), worse one without any other period escorts.

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11 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

I really hope HB and ED sort something out with regard to at least some SC functionality (deck crew, comms and the LSO station are must haves for me personally), for SC owners.

Right now, as much as I love what I'm seeing so far, it just seems to be, as you said, a remodelled Stennis (though HB's modelling looks incredibly good), worse one without any other period escorts.

 

IDK, I pretty much think the "comms" and Deck crew functionality should just be moved to "core" features. The stennis at this point is looong in the tooth. And those features are mostly  immersive. 

Things that could be paywalled are the rest of the SC IMO, LSO station, whatever the new functionality is. 

But IMO at this point in 2021 having to taxi by yourself and hit U to hook up and launch is pretty cheezy.

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On 10/15/2021 at 10:27 PM, Harlikwin said:

IDK, I pretty much think the "comms" and Deck crew functionality should just be moved to "core" features.

I kinda agree, and ideally that would be the case, though on the other hand, I don't find it unreasonable to charge for these features. EDIT: well maybe comms, owing to how much there is to be desired over DCS' current radio communications.

Though if that were the case, it would be more of a kick for me to have an empty Forrestal.

On 10/15/2021 at 10:27 PM, Harlikwin said:

The stennis at this point is looong in the tooth. And those features are mostly  immersive.

They're definitely immersive.

Though with comms there's still stuff missing:

  • Everything is on one frequency
  • The only callsign Marshal uses belongs to the only Nimitz-Roosevelt ship not present as of yet in the Supercarrier module
  • There's only one voice for each entity (and the pilot voice is the least immersive, sounding very similar to the tower and drastically changing voice depending on what your asking for)

List is obviously far from comprehensive and I'm excluding bugs.

On 10/15/2021 at 10:27 PM, Harlikwin said:

Things that could be paywalled are the rest of the SC IMO, LSO station, whatever the new functionality is.

I think the LSO station can stay, and HB seem to be doing something with it. The stuff like the super detailed hangar could probably be passed up (especially seeing as pushback tugs aren't a thing yet, though the AS32-32A hangar deck tractor is fully animated).

On 10/15/2021 at 10:27 PM, Harlikwin said:

But IMO at this point in 2021 having to taxi by yourself and hit U to hook up and launch is pretty cheezy.

Yeah, personally after having stuff like the SC, going back is going to be pretty difficult. It's a shame because I'm more interested in the Forrestal than late-ish 2000s Nimitz-Roosevelts


Edited by Northstar98
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2 minutes ago, Harlikwin said:

 

IDK, I pretty much think the "comms" and Deck crew functionality should just be moved to "core" features. The stennis at this point is looong in the tooth. And those features are mostly  immersive. 

Things that could be paywalled are the rest of the SC IMO, LSO station, whatever the new functionality is. 

But IMO at this point in 2021 having to taxi by yourself and hit U to hook up and launch is pretty cheezy.

Yep,

and when I was talking about that back then when SC was being released, how it is not such a good idea to charge for SC, something that should be a part of the core game cause that's what it actually is, most people were so eagerly defending ED's idea to charge for a moving runway with crew. Charging for LSO station or Air Boss seems ok, something like CA module, but for the deck with crew it doesn't seem ok.

Now we have this situation with Forrestal where you get a new carrier that most likely wont be used cause everyone is using SC, SC is just more immersive, by a lot more.

So what now, make Forrestal SC version and charge for it? Then you get another moving runway with deck crew, that is behind a paywall forcing people to buy it, cause it is dividing the community that bought it from the ones that didn't buy it, same is happening with SC and Stennis,

and in the end it is a Runway that everyone should have access to, cause runways are part of the core game.

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41 minutes ago, Furiz said:

So what now, make Forrestal SC version and charge for it? Then you get another moving runway with deck crew, that is behind a paywall forcing people to buy it, cause it is dividing the community that bought it from the ones that didn't buy it, same is happening with SC and Stennis,

and in the end it is a Runway that everyone should have access to, cause runways are part of the core game.

I thought they did something with the SC so it didn't do that?

Like in multiplayer if you were a non-owner you'd be able to see it and land on it, but not takeoff from it. I thought you could even make missions with it.

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55 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

I thought they did something with the SC so it didn't do that?

Like in multiplayer if you were a non-owner you'd be able to see it and land on it, but not takeoff from it. I thought you could even make missions with it.

No idea since many had to buy it as well as I did, cause you can't use it but you can see it and land on it... It's like buying a map but you cant use some of the runways cause you need to pay more, I know they had some hard work put into it, but as Harlikwin said paywall should have come later with LSO, Airboss etc... so people can operate from SC but if they want extra features they would have to pay.

Now we are in the situation where they can hardly go back on this, since people payed already. As I said, bad idea to charge for SC like that. I just hope we wont get charged per airfield ground crew next.

 


Edited by Furiz
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IMO there's no reason to just hand stuff over for free. Charging for the SC was the only way for them to get value for their effort. 

None of those features were promised for the core game which is already free to play, and works well enough. The hornet also came with a free carrier as well. So no need to get both if your Mr. Krabs.

Individuals who don't think ED deserves compensation for the extra realism need not buy it. But they shouldn't get it for free, that just doesn't make sense. So ED should make additions to the game and not get paid for them. How is that sustainable or smart for them? By the way the voice over stuff and comms logic were evidently the most labor intensive costly aspect of the module. Not the ground crew or 3D art, according to ED. 

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1 hour ago, Wizard_03 said:

IMO there's no reason to just hand stuff over for free. Charging for the SC was the only way for them to get value for their effort. 

None of those features were promised for the core game which is already free to play, and works well enough. The hornet also came with a free carrier as well. So no need to get both if your Mr. Krabs.

Individuals who don't think ED deserves compensation for the extra realism need not buy it. But they shouldn't get it for free, that just doesn't make sense. So ED should make additions to the game and not get paid for them. How is that sustainable or smart for them? By the way the voice over stuff and comms logic were evidently the most labor intensive costly aspect of the module. Not the ground crew or 3D art, according to ED. 

ED's business model is to sell modules to improve the core game. The SC or at least parts of it should have been covered by other module development. Thats the business model they have chosen vs a subscription based one. At some point they have to improve the core part of the game somehow, and they do albeit way too slowly for most peoples taste. 

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I was happy to pay for Supercarrier when it came out.  Updates to it have been rather barely existent and left a rather sour taste though as the newness wore off.  I'm not even really expecting the ready room or even LSO station as much as basics like night wands and another tower/LSO freq, etc. 

F-14A never got the F-14B hand signal fixes to spread wings and still gets told to raise the launch bar (so SC still thinks it's a Hornet) which bugs. Every time I'm back on the Stennis,  I appreciate the SC a bit more again,  though do wish it would see steady progress as a pay module with the basics taken care of ASAP. As it is,  they should throw in Combined Arms or something to all purchasers or guarantee much more robust support going forward, to include Nimitz & Ike skins,  if not my grail, Enterprise. Hell, I'd pay 10 more bucks for CVN-65.

If Forestall is going to be Stennis level, I'm honestly probably not going to use it much unless historical scenarios become a thing and we're still missing most of the air wing anyway. 


Edited by Uxi
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8 hours ago, Harlikwin said:

 

IDK, I pretty much think the "comms" and Deck crew functionality should just be moved to "core" features. The stennis at this point is looong in the tooth. And those features are mostly  immersive. 

Things that could be paywalled are the rest of the SC IMO, LSO station, whatever the new functionality is. 

But IMO at this point in 2021 having to taxi by yourself and hit U to hook up and launch is pretty cheezy.

Agree. If ED stick with their plan then SC is more than just "animated deck crew". They should make the SC accessible to everyone but only limited with Plane director and shooter while leaving the rest like

-LSO station

-Air boss

- ready room

- the rest of the deck crew

-you name it

 

Behind the paywall. 

It sucks doing carrier ops mission when you have friends that don't want to buy SC. 


Edited by ustio
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Isn't it like any DLC for any game? Get it if you think it adds value, otherwise don't. There are plenty of games with people using items/skins/levels they bought along with others who have not paid for the DLC. Friends don't want it, don't use it with them. With the carrier it's only about eye/ear candy, Stennis still works.

The World War II Assets Pack is slightly different because it is essentially a barrier to entry for any of the WWII campaigns and provides things that are in the basic game for modern time frames; but it keeps getting additions and improvements (hear that FLAK, I said improvements - I am looking pointedly at you FLAK :angry:).  And the developers need to make a living or none of this happens.

Interested to see how the Forrestal will add into the mix. 

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1 hour ago, wowbagger said:

Isn't it like any DLC for any game? Get it if you think it adds value, otherwise don't. There are plenty of games with people using items/skins/levels they bought along with others who have not paid for the DLC. Friends don't want it, don't use it with them. With the carrier it's only about eye/ear candy, Stennis still works.

No it is not like any other DLC,

for example: you can use Stennis when you buy any carrier based aircraft right? That's fine cause you can land at any base on the map you bought, but if the server you r playing on doesn't have Stennis anymore all of the sudden you cant fly carrier ops cause you didn't pay, but you did pay for carrier based aircraft and the carrier is there on that map.

other game DLCs don't work like that.

 

the comms and crew part shouldn't be behind a paywall, it should be an improvement to the core game, and all those assests as well.

1 hour ago, wowbagger said:

The World War II Assets Pack is slightly different because it is essentially a barrier to entry for any of the WWII campaigns and provides things that are in the basic game for modern time frames;

Fear the Bones campaign requires you to buy SC, Rise of the Persian Lion = SC, Operation Pontus = SC, dont wanna scroll more but you see my point, we are forced to buy it, if we don't we are paywalled for lots of stuff.

 

1 hour ago, wowbagger said:

And the developers need to make a living or none of this happens.

I agree, they need to get their money too, but not like this, this should be something that is in the core game as an improvement, just like graphic and performance improvements.


Edited by Furiz
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1 hour ago, wowbagger said:

Interested to see how the Forrestal will add into the mix. 

I can guess, it will be used for a month maybe for it is new and shiny, then people will turn back to SC cause the the immersion level is so much greater.

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25 minutes ago, Furiz said:

...we are forced to buy it, if we don't we are paywalled for lots of stuff.

No, you're not forced to buy anything. It's a simple customer choice. There are still missions, campaigns and servers for those without SC.

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Can't servers put both carriers on the map?  If there is a particular server someone likes to fly on, and that server uses only the SC, then maybe it's time to pony up the sale price of the SC and get on with it.

Other games' servers definitely run map rotations which mix and match various DLC. Some don't, some do.

Often is the refrain 'this should be free for multiplayer, because it will fragment the community'. I don't think single players should be expected to subsidize the multiplayer community (not suggesting you are saying they should, @Furiz). ED so far thinks it's better to do things this way than to raise the price of all modules to pay for these 'extra's. I guess they have crunched the numbers and have their reasons.

The money has to come from somewhere. If you make it so that only the fringe elements, that few people care about, have a price, who will buy it?

I don't know how much extra work is involved in copying a Campaign mission and making a Stennis and SC version, which users can use depending upon their situation  - exactly like @Reflected has done with a chunk of missions being ported from Normandy to Channel. I think it must be a LOT less work than porting from one map to another. Maybe creators should think about including both versions to expand their customer base. I may be wrong but I suspect that a majority of people who buy campaigns also buy things like the SC and Assets Pack anyway because of the immersion factor. 

My opinion is that everyone should pay for the pieces of the game they use. We can agree to disagree about this. I hope we can agree that the Forrestal is a welcome addition to the game; whatever form it takes.

 


Edited by wowbagger
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10 minutes ago, draconus said:

No, you're not forced to buy anything. It's a simple customer choice. There are still missions, campaigns and servers for those without SC.

Yea you can look at it both ways, you have a choice not to buy it, but you cant play those missions and campaigns that have it, so then if you want to play those missions and campaigns you are forced to buy SC, so you are paywalled behind it to some content.

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13 minutes ago, Furiz said:

Yea you can look at it both ways, you have a choice not to buy it, but you cant play those missions and campaigns that have it, so then if you want to play those missions and campaigns you are forced to buy SC, so you are paywalled behind it to some content.

Yes, exactly like if you want to play a Hornet campaign you are "forced" to buy the Hornet.


Edited by draconus
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18 minutes ago, Furiz said:

And if you buy the hornet, shouldn't you be able to use carriers?

You're free to use the available free carriers CVN-70 and CVN-74.

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2 minutes ago, Furiz said:

But you cant in a SC only MP server or a campaign, or you have to edit the missions etc...

Yes, you're starting to get it 🙂

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1 hour ago, wowbagger said:

 

I don't know how much extra work is involved in copying a Campaign mission and making a Stennis and SC version, which users can use depending upon their situation  - exactly like @Reflected has done with a chunk of missions being ported from Normandy to Channel. I think it must be a LOT less work than porting from one map to another. Maybe creators should think about including both versions to expand their customer base. I may be wrong but I suspect that a majority of people who buy campaigns also buy things like the SC and Assets Pack anyway because of the immersion factor. 

 

 

 

 

It's a lot less than building from scratch on a new map, but probably a lot more than people would think. You need to re-populate the deck, re-test making sure everyone spawns where they should, nobody collides, etc... (plus it's a much smaller carrier than the Nimitz class) . And also you double maintenance work by the snap of the finger, and that is definitely a lot more than most people would think 🙂

 

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1 hour ago, Reflected said:

 

It's a lot less than building from scratch on a new map, but probably a lot more than people would think....

No doubt. I'm sure I underestimate the amount of work that goes into maintaining campaigns, much less creating them. I'm amazed at how often some of the campaigns get updated to account for this or that.  Needless to say, your efforts are massively appreciated!

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