Where is an indication where snowplow mode of Litening Pod is looking at (in HUD)

[darkman222]

When I use snowplow mode with the litening pod it looks somewhere in front of the aircraft. When I go TMS up , the lock gets stabilized. But I get no indication where it is right now. Just when I start to slew around the Tpod diamond appears, so now I know.

Even worse, when I am in snowplow mode without locking up any area in front of me, I dont have no clue where it is looking, without locking. If I point the nose of the aircaft up in the sky, the pod still looks on the ground, which is good. But apparently the area it is looking at is not fixed point in front of the aircraft but kind of dynamic.

 

The manual says: "In snowplow mode, the TGP LOS is commanded straight ahead and angled downwards to point to the ground ahead at ½ of the currently selected FCR scale (for example, if selected FCR scale is 40nm, the TGP will look at the point on the ground 20nm ahead). Because the location determined by the reticle is snowplowing, the SPI itself will also snowplow"

 

I cant believe there is no visual indication in HUD for where it is looking.

 

I  dont want to use waypoints on the target for the mission. So I have to lock them up while they pop up out of a sudden.

Can someone give advice to make the SP mode more predictable?

 

Edited March 1, 2021 by darkman222

[VampireNZ]

Just for interest, another description of how SP is supposed to work...

 

Snowplow Mode
Snowplow (SP) mode is toggled by pressing OSB 8 on either A-G radar or TGP MFDs. Toggling SP mode sets both sensors into snowplow (SP label will highlight on both MFDs) and not ground-stabilized position, in front of the aircraft and at half the range of the A-G radar scale. TMS Up can then be used to ground-stabilize and allow slewing of the position. SP mode is always in sync between A-G radar and TGP, so if for some reason the A-G radar SP mode is toggled off by switching radar or master modes then the TGP will also exit SP mode. Slewing one of the sensors when in SP mode will also slew the other sensor to the same position similar to how it is working when in normal (STP) mode. The SPI position is not affected when operating in SP mode, meaning that SP mode allows focusing on a position different than the SPI without affecting the SPI.

Note that when Snowplow mode is selected and not yet stabilized (whether set by A-G radar or TGP), SOI is defined as being "nowhere," so both A-G radar and TGP will not have the SOI border and NOT SOI will appear on the MFDs. TMS-Up will stabilize SP position and SOI will normally move to the sensor which was SOI before entering SP mode.

 

But we don't have A-G radar yet so just using A-A radar mode, and not sure what the story is with the SPI modelling is in DCS Viper, but that is how it generally works. It is a little easier to use SP with A-G radar.

 

10 hours ago, darkman222 said:

But apparently the area it is looking at is not fixed point in front of the aircraft but kind of dynamic.

 

Not apparently - it is literally looking directly in front of the aircraft at 1/2 the radar range (so kinda like a snowplow..), so will be showing a dynamic moving picture at that range till you spot something interesting/it is at roughly the right spot and you then ground-stabilise.

Generally you don't need an 'indication' of the position, as if you are on-course to the target area, which is 25-ish miles away, and your radar is set to 40 miles - then you should be seeing something familiar/interesting any second now on the TPOD.

If you want to put the box on the target, then ground stab it and slew it around once the target 'pops-up' . TPOS is a little clumsy to use in a 'target pop-up' situation like that, and whatever you are trying to employ may not be suitable for the task, and perhaps CCIP would be a better choice for a '1-pass haul a$$' situation? TPOD will allow you to lock in the position then re-position for a weapon drop.

[Bunny Clark]

I think a major part of the problem right now is that Snowplow is being forced to fill a roll it was never meant for. The purpose of Snowplow mode is to search a broad area for a target and acquire it on the TGP screen. You should be looking at the TGP for the target, then when you see it TMS up to stabilize and slew on to it. This technique requires no outside reference other than pointing the aircraft generally in the right direction. 

 

But, right now, people are using it to acquire a target they can see with their eyes outside the jet and trying to get the TGP onto it. That's not what Snowplow is meant for. That function is much better served by DTOS and JHMCS A/G Mode, neither of which have been implemented yet. 

[Zeroskills]

The tpod designation is looking right around the -10 line of the pitch ladder of the hud in SP mode. If you push SP, then tms up, then bump the slew control a little bit the tpod designation box should show up.

[Machalot]

1 hour ago, Zeroskills said:

The tpod designation is looking right around the -10 line of the pitch ladder of the hud in SP mode. If you push SP, then tms up, then bump the slew control a little bit the tpod designation box should show up.

I think that depends on altitude.

[darkman222]

I see. But let me ask again in a naive way.

Let say I am flying towards a waypoint with maybe 450 kts. Suddenly I see ground units popping up in front of me.

I have no time to turn around and do another bomb run. But I want to take a chance and drop bombs just this one pass, flying over the enemy unit once.

I am in SP mode, press TMS up and start to slew the cursor around and the target pod cursor appears just "somewhere" in front of the aircraft and hopefully also somewhere near the target.

Now I have to slew the cursor precisely on the target while approaching it. But slewing from the before unkown point takes so much time, that I just pass over the target without any chance to get the procedures done in time to drop bombs. And thats it then, and continue to the waypoint without dropping any bombs at all.

Thats why I am asking for that indication to give me a better starting point for the target pod to slew from.

If there was a static symbol on the HUD I could put on the tartget before pressing TMS up would help a lot. I dont know where I saw that and what aircraft it was, but I remeber having seen the HUD being SOI and the velocity vector / flight path marker could be used to put the sensor on the target.

Is there any way to speed up this process?

[Zeroskills]

5 hours ago, darkman222 said:

I see. But let me ask again in a naive way.

Let say I am flying towards a waypoint with maybe 450 kts. Suddenly I see ground units popping up in front of me.

I have no time to turn around and do another bomb run. But I want to take a chance and drop bombs just this one pass, flying over the enemy unit once.

I am in SP mode, press TMS up and start to slew the cursor around and the target pod cursor appears just "somewhere" in front of the aircraft and hopefully also somewhere near the target.

Now I have to slew the cursor precisely on the target while approaching it. But slewing from the before unkown point takes so much time, that I just pass over the target without any chance to get the procedures done in time to drop bombs. And thats it then, and continue to the waypoint without dropping any bombs at all.

Thats why I am asking for that indication to give me a better starting point for the target pod to slew from.

If there was a static symbol on the HUD I could put on the tartget before pressing TMS up would help a lot. I dont know where I saw that and what aircraft it was, but I remeber having seen the HUD being SOI and the velocity vector / flight path marker could be used to put the sensor on the target.

Is there any way to speed up this process?

DTOS is the mode that will do what you want. It's not implemented yet.

[Bunny Clark]

8 hours ago, darkman222 said:

Thats why I am asking for that indication to give me a better starting point for the target pod to slew from.

If there was a static symbol on the HUD I could put on the tartget before pressing TMS up would help a lot. 

Again, the problem is that if you see targets with your eyes outside the canopy, Snowplow is not the mode you want. The answer is not to ask for an unrealistic HUD indication in Snowplow mode, but to wait for more modes that actually do what you want to be added. 

 

DTOS is a bomb delivery mode that shares a lot with the Maverick VIS delivery mode. It will place a TD box on the HUD caged to the flight path marker. You can then slew that box around the HUD with the Cursor, and press TMS Up to ground stabilize and designate a target. Once you do that, the TGP will snap to that location, allowing you to refine the target point and release a weapon on it. It's basically everything you want, you just need to wait for it to be implemented.