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CCRP bomb fall line


Sirchuzzalot

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Hey everyone. I seem to always have a problem with the hornet dropping bombs in CCRP mode where the bomb fall line is not alligned over the target. If I follow the line it takes me wildly off course and if I fly toward the target I don't get the drop cue. 

 

Is this something to do with the ins alignment process?

 

I fly the viper and the harrier and have no problems with CCRP bombing with these.

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Yeah... fairly sure I know what this is. Are you taking off from the carrier after a cold start and setting the INS to NAV?

 

If so - you need to put it to IFA, or you'll be off by a few miles as the carrier will have moved by the time you take off.

 

That's the most likely cause!

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DCS Modules - A-10C; M-2000C; AV8B; F/A-18C; Ka-50; FC-3; UH-1H; F-5E; Mi-8; F-14; Persian Gulf; NTTR

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I'm having this issue basically constantly recently; particularly when flying low.

 

I don't recall having this issue with the Viper, but as I'm learning the hornet I'm getting some WEIRD bugs, including the CCRP line being WAAAAAAAAY off target.

 

In image you can see waypoint set as target, and how close I am, but CCRP line way off to the left... way off left.

In a previous run I was chasing it, and ended up having to cut like a 90 degree angle to follow the line in within 5 miles to target.

 

No issues with INS; aligned normal, went to IFA; obviously INS can't be that wrong... the waypoint markpoint is right there on my hud.

Why on earth is the CCRP line .... not ....

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Edited by XCNuse
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presence or absence of GPS should have no effect on CCIP with AGR. similarly with CCRP, the only thing that should happen is the designation point being moved but otherwise it should work exactly the same.

 

if it behaves differently, its a bug.


Edited by dorianR666

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 1600X

GPU: AMD RX 580

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6 hours ago, Caster said:

How does this work pre-GPS? It affects CCIP as well as CCRP and it can make carrier strike ops impossible

 

I would be curious about this as well... How do we align accurately on the carrier if the date is set to early 1990s or before? I've never worked that out...

 

However, I don't see why it would affect CCIP?

 

- i7-7700k

- 32GB DDR4 2400Mhz

- GTX 1080 8GB

- Installed on SSD

- TM Warthog

 

DCS Modules - A-10C; M-2000C; AV8B; F/A-18C; Ka-50; FC-3; UH-1H; F-5E; Mi-8; F-14; Persian Gulf; NTTR

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1 hour ago, LooseSeal said:

 

I would be curious about this as well... How do we align accurately on the carrier if the date is set to early 1990s or before? I've never worked that out...

 

However, I don't see why it would affect CCIP?

 

Two ways; both however use the ship's navigation system.

Ground wire, or wirelessly over a freq.

 

F14 can do the wireless method. I believe the hornet doesn't properly simulate either methods and you just have to run the standard CV mode; maybe requires ground power? I don't remember and not seeing it mentioned in the manual.

Difference being you set INS to NAV instead of IFA

 

Mission date is 1986 or prior for the record. (unsure if it's that whole year or what, but somewhere involving 1986 is that dateline for DCS using GPS systems or not)

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On 3/2/2021 at 1:15 PM, LooseSeal said:

Yeah... fairly sure I know what this is. Are you taking off from the carrier after a cold start and setting the INS to NAV?

 

If so - you need to put it to IFA, or you'll be off by a few miles as the carrier will have moved by the time you take off.

 

That's the most likely cause!

I don't know why that should matter. In NAV the aircraft should still navigate and measure the aircraft's motion as the ship moves, just without the benefit of increased accuracy from error correction of GPS.

"Subsonic is below Mach 1, supersonic is up to Mach 5. Above Mach 5 is hypersonic. And reentry from space, well, that's like Mach a lot."

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I have this problem, but from airfields.  Recently I'm getting upto speed on the F18s systems using the Hoggit Training server.   I'm using cheat start then using all weapons until I become totally familiar with them.  I can't use any weapons in CCIP though as the bomb fall line is off to the side, at 500ft agl, it can be about 20 deg off vertical, at 200ft it can be 90 deg out to the side!  Also I find that when using the TGP, nearly all the time, the point where I laser designate is not where the bomb (or maverick) goes, it is always about 500ft off to the side.  I can lock a static object, see it on the MFD, fly towards it and I can see the small diamond is on a different location on the terrain!

 

More recently, I'm flying on a "capture the bases" server with AI as enemy, and now putting my knowledge to some use, in this server, the aircraft are on hot start,  in this case, I have yet to see the problem, CCIP and laser is working properly.

 

Maybe this is not related to the above posts, but it seems like a similar issue.  I am not familiar with the F18 INS so I use cheat start, but maybe there is some difference between cold and hot start, and it's not always only related to a carrier start.

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4 hours ago, Dr_Watson said:

I have this problem, but from airfields.  Recently I'm getting upto speed on the F18s systems using the Hoggit Training server.   I'm using cheat start then using all weapons until I become totally familiar with them.  I can't use any weapons in CCIP though as the bomb fall line is off to the side, at 500ft agl, it can be about 20 deg off vertical, at 200ft it can be 90 deg out to the side!  Also I find that when using the TGP, nearly all the time, the point where I laser designate is not where the bomb (or maverick) goes, it is always about 500ft off to the side.  I can lock a static object, see it on the MFD, fly towards it and I can see the small diamond is on a different location on the terrain!

 

More recently, I'm flying on a "capture the bases" server with AI as enemy, and now putting my knowledge to some use, in this server, the aircraft are on hot start,  in this case, I have yet to see the problem, CCIP and laser is working properly.

 

Maybe this is not related to the above posts, but it seems like a similar issue.  I am not familiar with the F18 INS so I use cheat start, but maybe there is some difference between cold and hot start, and it's not always only related to a carrier start.

 

On a similar thread; I set up a single player mission and tried about everything; set it up for some predesignated targets, air starts, cold starts, hot starts; tried with mk82s and rockeyes, and I literally couldn't get the issue to come back.

 

Do you have any short tracks that show this?

 

I'm ... getting awfully close to thinking this is for whatever reason an issue in multiplayer, and whatever the cause, isn't making it happen in singleplayer.

 

If you do have any tracks showing this relatively early or on a small track file, PLEASE upload them for ED to pick apart; I don't want to be stuck with this issue, because it's a big one!

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Im not posting a track until I have some good info.   Tonights quick test shows online, with a few MK83, cheat start, everything worked pretty perfectly.  However, after landing and rearming, I could get the bomb fall line off by 45 degrees at about 500ft.  Maybe something to do with a hot rearming.


I want to test this in single player so I can see if there is a pattern with multiplayer and/or rearming.  Give me a few days to get some more info.

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2 hours ago, Dr_Watson said:

Im not posting a track until I have some good info.   Tonights quick test shows online, with a few MK83, cheat start, everything worked pretty perfectly.  However, after landing and rearming, I could get the bomb fall line off by 45 degrees at about 500ft.  Maybe something to do with a hot rearming.


I want to test this in single player so I can see if there is a pattern with multiplayer and/or rearming.  Give me a few days to get some more info.

 

I tested this morning on 59th Ravens and also had no luck in getting it to go wrong either.

So the original flight that happened, I didn't rearm, BUT I did refuel and took off again (buddy didn't want to AA refuel).

 

So I'm glad to hear there's something common; everything I've tested up to this point has NOT involved re-arming or refueling, and I was going to test that stuff tonight.
I'm HOPING that's where the commonality is.

I didn't want to say it just yet to see if that is roughly what happened to you as well; because that's when it went sour for me.

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Ok so just tried it again; didn't have QUITE the amount of luck I did as before; sadly the track is 45MB, and I am going to try narrowing down what I think is causing it; I think it's how much you turn.

I did a few rearms, it didn't seem to get any worse, but I did notice there was about a 1-2 degree offset if I did some bobbing and weaving.

 

It's almost like the CCRP line itself isn't being drawn in the right location.

I also noticed at certain times the line would SNAP right onto location; got it to do it twice, distance was different; but after 90 degree hard banks, I was able to get it to go off cue, and at some point it would snap.

 

Unfortunately the time I actually noticed it, it never snapped onto the waypoint.

 

Tacview is showing this as being roughly 30 minutes long; it should occur 3 times in the last 10 minutes of this replay; if it... happens in the replay however I'm not sure.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JI4fLR-q_gALF4G6rLZeA4JXBuZ6j8Eo/view?usp=sharing

 

I'm going to try a few other things and see if I can nail down what's causing it.

I'm not sure it's the rearm/refuel entirely, but I think it may be a catalyst.

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I just tried literally everything I can think of in single player again; and couldn't get it to happen. Changing weapons, refueling, refueling & rearming, changing waypoints designated.... I tried a lot.

 

 

HOWEVER.

I've noticed one thing in particular though and I'm curious if it's the cause....

 

If you roll left or right, maybe 15+ degrees (or more, more is fine), and then level off, the entire HUD ... kind of resets; is the best way I can describe it.

The entire CCRP calculation line and some other stuff completely flashes for a split second and returns.

 

RIGHT BEFORE it returns; the line is offset; nearly every time.

I haven't been able to get it to be like an inch off target, but it's enough to put it to one side of the diamond until said "reset" after leveling off; ie, waving with your wings can basically trigger it both ways, and it happens... 100% of the time for me.

 

Surely that's part of the issue at hand.

 

Whatever is calculating the CCRP line seems to alter depending which direction you're banking; and I'm wondering if you do it enough / long enough, that issue expands.


Edited by XCNuse
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I can say I'm 99% positive this is related, but this keeps happening as well; waypoint designated as target; waypoint on HUD is ... definitely not where the target is.

Maverick however will go right to the target (which is in correct location) when set to SOI.

 

Whatever this is I think is the same issue.

 

Why would the waypoint designation appear ~1/4 mile off the target; but things like the mavericks will go the precise location they're set to in mission editor?

Annotation 2021-03-07 102735.png


Edited by XCNuse
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15 minutes ago, XCNuse said:

I can say I'm 99% positive this is related, but this keeps happening as well; waypoint designated as target; waypoint on HUD is ... definitely not where the target is.

Maverick however will go right to the target (which is in correct location) when set to SOI.

 

Whatever this is I think is the same issue.

 

Why would the waypoint designation appear ~1/4 mile off the target; but things like the mavericks will go the precise location they're set to in mission editor?

Annotation 2021-03-07 102735.png

 

might be because INS drift is buggy in hornet. one system may take it into account, another may not.

 

jf-17 had a very similar problem. navigation symbols did have drift, gps bombs targets did not.

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 1600X

GPU: AMD RX 580

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1 hour ago, XCNuse said:

Maverick however will go right to the target (which is in correct location) when set to SOI.

 

Whatever this is I think is the same issue.

 

Why would the waypoint designation appear ~1/4 mile off the target; but things like the mavericks will go the precise location they're set to in mission editor?

I'm unclear what Mavericks have to do with this. They use their own onboard seeker, not the jet's INS.  Is there something I don't understand? 


Edited by Machalot

"Subsonic is below Mach 1, supersonic is up to Mach 5. Above Mach 5 is hypersonic. And reentry from space, well, that's like Mach a lot."

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55 minutes ago, Machalot said:

I'm unclear what Mavericks have to do with this. They use their own onboard seeker, not the jet's INS.  Is there something I don't understand? 

 

waypoint designate; and the mavs go to the waypoint; no slewing was involved here.

 

@Svend; I can try, not aware of that but will give that a shot!


Edited by XCNuse
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18 hours ago, Machalot said:

They use their own onboard seeker, not the jet's INS.  Is there something I don't understand? 

When you slave a maverick to particular coordinates, you need ownship coordinates from INS to compute the angles to which the maverick seeker should rotate.

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 1600X

GPU: AMD RX 580

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4 hours ago, dorianR666 said:

When you slave a maverick to particular coordinates, you need ownship coordinates from INS to compute the angles to which the maverick seeker should rotate.

Ok,I didn't know there was a slave function for Mavs to waypoints.

"Subsonic is below Mach 1, supersonic is up to Mach 5. Above Mach 5 is hypersonic. And reentry from space, well, that's like Mach a lot."

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