Stupid Question Anybody else have trouble with a clean, straight takeoff?

[Weegie]

Funny @grafspee I was flying warbirds with a buddy last night and he said the same thing trying them back to back.

 

I find them a bit different with some common characterisitics, generally I find the Dora more docile to take off and land, must be me then

 

Anyway

 

 

Edited March 11, 2021 by Weegie

[grafspee]

What kind of rudder pedals do you have, mine wont work so smooth ever.

[Weegie]

These are Slaw's Viper Pedals with a hyrdaulic dsmper @grafspee

 

Damper really makes a big difference to the smoothness, but on the other hand you need a lot more leg muscle to move and hold them in position

 

The other disadvantage is it's more difficult to find center, but that IMHO doesn't matter so much as I'm never really that bothered, I just move the pedals to center the ball

[grafspee]

yeah

In my country i have 2 options. 

this is what i have now

and this

i think i buy those one soon but not sure are those woth the money.

Price is 573$/479Euro

Or should i look fore something beyond borders.

Edited March 12, 2021 by grafspee

[Weegie]

4 hours ago, grafspee said:

yeah

In my country i have 2 options. 

this is what i have now

and this

i think i buy those one soon but not sure are those woth the money.

Price is 573$/479Euro

Or should i look fore something beyond borders.

 

Well I've never tried either of them but the TM pedals seem to be popular, I do see many report that some of the components could be better

 

There are mods in the TM section of the Input and Output to add a damper to them and also replace some of the more questionable components. I do like the pendular design, most of the other pedals tend to use a parallelogram design.

 

The Slaw's are pretty dammed spendy, but are super solid and very heavy

 

Have you thought about the Crosswinds, I've used them and they are very good. Unfortunately not having tried the TM pedals I can't say which would be better, but there are quite a few threads on rudder pedals and comparisons.

 

Other options are Virpil who do a range of pedals I think they are to Bauer's design who works for Virpil and he was consistently getting great reviews for all the stuff he produced pre Virpil.

 

Then there is the VKB T rudders, I've used them, very solid,  and they work well for a desk (you tend to push them up and down rather than side to side), but no brakes. They can be combined to use a brake combo like the Russian and Spit design (which I prefer to toe brakes)  

 

Good luck I'm sure either way you'll notice a big difference and thanks for your inputs to my questions as you always give me a lot of insight.

 

Are Slaw (Viper pedals) and Milan (Crosswind pedals) not in you're neck of the woods? I thought they were in Poland, if not I'm sure they are in the EU.

Edited March 12, 2021 by Weegie
More info

[Lynchsl62]

I have both the A-8 and D-9, which is the better/more satisfying module to learn. I am learning the K4, P-51 and Mk XI and wondering which module to focus on next. First impression is the D-9 seems pretty benign to learn - is this a reflection on the early FM?

[Weegie]

Hi @Lynchsl62 let's see if @grafspee chimes in as he is more knowledgable than me.

 

I don't fly much combat, so perhaps better to get the opinion of somebody else for that.

 

Of the A-8 & D9 they are both quite similar but for me the Anton is the trickier at least to take off and land.

 

In general the FW's are energy fighters, with good roll rates and don't like to slow down.

 

That said their turn rates are appauling after say a Spit it'll feel like you're flying a bus

 

Their behaviour is very different to the Spitfire and Kurtfurst in particular

Edited March 12, 2021 by Weegie

[grafspee]

P-51 has the oldest FM, as it is first module. Then D-9 flies just different then A-8.

Performance wise, it has more power, this mean that is able to reach higher G in sustained turn, and i think D-9 is the fastest plane at level flight.

Combat wise most of this things does not matter. The most important thing is your group which you fly with, you can get kills in A8 as easy as in D9.

A8 has more cannons on board

Edited March 12, 2021 by grafspee

[reece146]

I have the TMs. they work well enough but I would prefer something with pedals wider apart (I'm over six feet - feel restricted).

 

There is no real sense of on centre feel so I've added a dead zone to try to compensate.

 

Wrt quality, you'd have to be a gorilla to break them. I've had them a year with no issues with the electronics.

[Nealius]

Chiming in to ask if everyone is also dealing with a huge amount of left roll on takeoff. I can keep it straight down the runway, but attempting a 3-point takeoff without forcing it, it seems to be unsticking from the ground at a stall speed and I dip my left wing. My stick is neutral at this point. Should I ease the stick forward and go for a 2-point takeoff instead?

[grafspee]

1 hour ago, Nealius said:

Chiming in to ask if everyone is also dealing with a huge amount of left roll on takeoff. I can keep it straight down the runway, but attempting a 3-point takeoff without forcing it, it seems to be unsticking from the ground at a stall speed and I dip my left wing. My stick is neutral at this point. Should I ease the stick forward and go for a 2-point takeoff instead?

If you want 3 point take off you need quite a bit right aileron on stick, since you are on verge of stalling, right rudder and right aileron.

Extremely wonky take off, still learning new rudder pedals but it gets idea how much input it takes to take off 3 point.

 

 

Edited September 5, 2021 by grafspee

[Nealius]

On a clean airframe, would some nose-down trim help? I tried a 3-point takeoff with a 300gal tank and it was a clean takeoff other than drifting left on the runway (despite 80% right rudder). 

 

I'm finding that the tailwheel unlocks before neutral stick, making 2-points rather difficult. I thought the tailwheel should unlock with forward stick, not at or before neutral stick?

[Art-J]

31 minutes ago, Nealius said:

On a clean airframe, would some nose-down trim help? I tried a 3-point takeoff with a 300gal tank and it was a clean takeoff other than drifting left on the runway (despite 80% right rudder). 

 

I'm finding that the tailwheel unlocks before neutral stick, making 2-points rather difficult. I thought the tailwheel should unlock with forward stick, not at or before neutral stick?

 

In DCS Mustang, neutral stick is indeed "switch" point for the lock, but in both DCS 190s, the switch happens already at about half stick back.

Edited September 5, 2021 by Art-J

[Nealius]

After more takeoffs, my cleanest has been when I forgot to set takeoff flaps. Apparently a drop tank and flaps up works best for me. I'm sure it takes up more runway, but I have no need for STO capability anyway.

[Lynnux]

On 3/9/2021 at 7:32 PM, Mogster said:

20 years ago Flugwerk in Germany made 20 FW190 replicas, mostly A8 spec but a few listed as D9 with inline engines.
 

It’s interesting that out of the 10 reported as being airworthy six are recorded as having had some form of operational incident leading to damage. Just confirms that high powered tail daggers are not easy to fly.

 

Small anecdote but fitting to OP:

At the maiden flight of the Flugwerk FW-190A replica, testpilot Horst Philipp first failed to take off. The plane was very "tail heavy". He couldn't get the tailwheel up and didn't dare to accelerate further and aborted the take off. Later they discovered by reading the original manual that the normal FW-190 take off is in 3 point attitude... just accelerate and the plane will take off.

Interestingly, Klaus Plasa does lift the tailwheel on take off with a Flugwerk FW-190A replica. Maybe a different center of gravity compared to the first replica ?

Btw. the Flugwerk GmbH was located in Gammelsdorf in an industrial area a bit outside the village. Rumor has it that Gammelsdorf was the first place in Germany where Nirvana had a concert.

Edited November 15, 2022 by Lynnux

[Ala13_ManOWar]

12 hours ago, Lynnux said:

At the maiden flight of the Flugwerk FW-190A replica, testpilot Horst Philipp first failed to take off. The plane was very "tail heavy". He couldn't get the tailwheel up and didn't dare to accelerate further and aborted the take off. Later they discovered by reading the original manual that the normal FW-190 take off is in 3 point attitude... just accelerate and the plane will take off.

Yep, I remember watching the video on the first take off of the model and test pilot (wasn't Klaus Plasa as far as I remember) did take off in a three point attitude which seemed a bit weird, but since he also never raised the landing gear in that first flight I simply supposed he was just being conservative on a very first flight of a newly built model. After all they were new aircraft bearing a very different engine than original. Nice to know it was really a thing for the model.

[Tucker Fleming]

3 point is the way to go.  Keep the tail in contact the entire run with constant back pressure on the stick.  The aircraft will lift off when it gets enough speed.  Ease the throttle forward in steps, letting the aircraft catch up speed wise till you increase the throttle more.  It doesn't take long.  When you feel the aircraft lift of the runway, ease the stick forward to avoid excessive climb attitude.  Raise gear and fly away.

[Nealius]

Recently after revisiting the Anton, the tail unlocking too soon when trying to do 2-point takeoffs doesn't seem to be an issue any more. I specifically avoid 3-point takeoffs in the Anton and 109 due to their aggressive wing stall tendencies once they get airborne, even with nose-down trim.

[Ala13_ManOWar]

Yeah, three point attitude take offs means let the plane fly off by itself whenever she wants but no pushing back on the stick at all because as it's obvious you'll stall the plane every time. The speed builds up slowly and gently and only then you're good to manoeuvre or whatever you like, but not until it's well settled airborne and with speed enough.

[Nealius]

The trick with that is that the stick has to be aft during the takeoff roll to lock the tail wheel, so in a 3-point attitude she'll immediately stall unless you shove the stick to neutral/forward at precisely the right timing as liftoff. 

[Reflected]

42 minutes ago, Nealius said:

The trick with that is that the stick has to be aft during the takeoff roll to lock the tail wheel, so in a 3-point attitude she'll immediately stall unless you shove the stick to neutral/forward at precisely the right timing as liftoff. 

Once you have 100+ kph speed the rudder has enough authority to keep it straight. Keeping the stick all the way back to keep the tailwheel locked is very risky. I usually raise the tail, but keep it a bit lower to let it lift off sooner - that's what I saw on some WW2 footage of 190s taking off.

Edited December 20, 2022 by Reflected

[Doughguy]

On the 190s you dont have to pull back all the way to lock the tail. 

At 100 kph you slowly but steadily release on the stick to neutral. At 120 she takes off. Pull  a bit on the stick as both 190s are rather nose trimmed.

Also keep the stick to the right aswell about half way to counter rolling. Once she gains speed past 120 kph neutralize the stick aswell.

Rudder full to the right aswell due to torque. But release once you start gaining speed. Dont have it slammed the whole way youll overdo! Rather slam, release correct a bit, release, correct etc. 

Basically youd do the same with the mustang if you dont trim the rudder. Only that the mustang responds a bit faster compared to the 190s.

Coordination is a bit tricky but just treat her lightly. Shes a classic lady that needs to be carried over the doorstep.