Help with A2A radar

[Doc3908]

Hi,

I'm fairly new to the JF-17, so I'd really appreciate some help with the A2A radar. Put simply, I cannot pickup any targets. I start in the air. The AAP is all lit up (incl. RDR and  RWR). I switch to BVR (INTC). The radar is NOT on standby and NOT silenced. The caret is moving along the bottom, the 3 bars are moving up and down, and... nothing. The targets are at co-altitude - sometimes at 35miles, sometimes so close I can see them and pick them up when I switch to ACM. In fact, that's the only way I can get anything to show up on the radar B-scope. If I get out of ACM and go back to BVR, the radar is blank again (occasionally it'll start picking up targets after I return from ACM to BVR).  Choosing RWS or TWS makes no difference. So, basically the only targets I can engage are those that are close enough to pick up in ACM. Of course, by then the Vipers (or whatever I'm fighting) have long since fired their AIM120s and forced me on the defensive without ever having acquired them on radar. Needless to say, this is very frustrating. So, any help would be very much appreciated. I can post a track file or a video if necessary.

Thanks in advance.

Doc

[Mustang25]

Do you have your radar scale set appropriately? That’s the only thing I can think of off the top of my head. A track or video should help in getting a quick answer too!

[unknown]

The only other thing that comes to my mind beside what Mustang25 said is that you have mapped the Antenna elevation function to an axis(double assignment?) that puts your radar antenna to the lowerst/highest position preventing you to see any contacts. But this is all just guessing, post a short track or video/screenshots. The radar works fine for me.

[Kerbo 416]

7 hours ago, Doc3908 said:

Hi,

I'm fairly new to the JF-17, so I'd really appreciate some help with the A2A radar. Put simply, I cannot pickup any targets. I start in the air. The AAP is all lit up (incl. RDR and  RWR). I switch to BVR (INTC). The radar is NOT on standby and NOT silenced. The caret is moving along the bottom, the 3 bars are moving up and down, and... nothing. The targets are at co-altitude - sometimes at 35miles, sometimes so close I can see them and pick them up when I switch to ACM. In fact, that's the only way I can get anything to show up on the radar B-scope. If I get out of ACM and go back to BVR, the radar is blank again (occasionally it'll start picking up targets after I return from ACM to BVR).  Choosing RWS or TWS makes no difference. So, basically the only targets I can engage are those that are close enough to pick up in ACM. Of course, by then the Vipers (or whatever I'm fighting) have long since fired their AIM120s and forced me on the defensive without ever having acquired them on radar. Needless to say, this is very frustrating. So, any help would be very much appreciated. I can post a track file or a video if necessary.

Thanks in advance.

Doc

can you take a picture of the radar screen?

[Blinky.ben]

14 hours ago, unknown said:

The only other thing that comes to my mind beside what Mustang25 said is that you have mapped the Antenna elevation function to an axis(double assignment?) that puts your radar antenna to the lowerst/highest position preventing you to see any contacts. But this is all just guessing, post a short track or video/screenshots. The radar works fine for me.

This is my first thought also, I have my antenna elevation mapped to a slider and it is usually pointing all the way down or up until I adjust the slider.

[Doc3908]

Thanks, guys.I did, indeed, have my antenna mapped to the slider and, after removing the assignment, I hoped that the problem is solved. But it's still not picking up anything until I'm really close and switch to ACM. Here's a short video:

 

 

Edited March 11, 2021 by Doc3908

[unknown]

Sadly the resolution of the video is not very good, i can't read anything(settings) on the displays. Is that your own mission? SP/MP? Could you please post the track - just start the mission, test the radar to show the problem, hit esc, in the result screen there is a button called save track, upload it here.

 

things i noticed:

- you said you removed the antenna elevation mapping but as the video starts your radar elevation is centred(good)

- a couple seconds past in the video and your radar elevation was set to down(-60°), so there is still something assigned to the antenna elevation axis???(bad)

- as you switched to TWS? the antenna elevation axis looked like it was centred again, will check later if there is something fishy? A track from you would really help here!

- after your acm engagement as you switched back to "bvr" you saw the track real close and disapear at ~1.57 in the video, that was probably because it left your radar scan cone - here you would need to change the radar elevation so that the target stays in the radar cone

- you can check whick elevation area your radar scans at what distance with the two numbers right of the radar cursor - lower and upper limit

 

 

[Blinky.ben]

1 hour ago, unknown said:

Sadly the resolution of the video is not very good, i can't read anything(settings) on the displays. Is that your own mission? SP/MP? Could you please post the track - just start the mission, test the radar to show the problem, hit esc, in the result screen there is a button called save track, upload it here.

 

things i noticed:

- you said you removed the antenna elevation mapping but as the video starts your radar elevation is centred(good)

- a couple seconds past in the video and your radar elevation was set to down(-60°), so there is still something assigned to the antenna elevation axis???(bad)

- as you switched to TWS? the antenna elevation axis looked like it was centred again, will check later if there is something fishy? A track from you would really help here!

- after your acm engagement as you switched back to "bvr" you saw the track real close and disapear at ~1.57 in the video, that was probably because it left your radar scan cone - here you would need to change the radar elevation so that the target stays in the radar cone

- you can check whick elevation area your radar scans at what distance with the two numbers right of the radar cursor - lower and upper limit

 

 

Good post.

[Doc3908]

Thank you SO MUCH for the in-depth review of the video. I think I may have taken this before I removed the assignment to axis. I'll record a new track today and post here. Again, I really appreciate all the help and insights! 

[unknown]

2 hours ago, Doc3908 said:

Thank you SO MUCH for the in-depth review of the video. I think I may have taken this before I removed the assignment to axis. I'll record a new track today and post here. Again, I really appreciate all the help and insights! 

A track would be great!

 

A quick test on my side with B-52's and F-5's showed no problems on my side:

[Doc3908]

I just re-flew the mission (it's the standard instant-action Su-27 "Bomber Intercept" mission - I just replaced the Su-27s with JF-17s). The track file is 8.2MB, so I put it in dropbox (https://www.dropbox.com/s/xpyv0d3voha7sgj/Bomber_Intercept.trk?dl=0). I did better in terms of finding the targets, but at times I'm still struggling (like that silly B-52 after the two F-5s are show down and then at the very end I'm just trying to lock up my AWACS and I can't find it forever even though I know exactly where it is). Probably just my lack of experience, so I appreciate any suggestions to help me get more proficient with using the radar.

 

[Blinky.ben]

I could be wrong but I do find that the Radar in the JF is slightly more narrow then most other modules, so you need to be a little more precise with your elevation then what you might be use to.

Edited March 13, 2021 by Blinky.ben

[unknown]

On 3/13/2021 at 12:40 AM, Doc3908 said:

I just re-flew the mission (it's the standard instant-action Su-27 "Bomber Intercept" mission - I just replaced the Su-27s with JF-17s). The track file is 8.2MB, so I put it in dropbox (https://www.dropbox.com/s/xpyv0d3voha7sgj/Bomber_Intercept.trk?dl=0). I did better in terms of finding the targets, but at times I'm still struggling (like that silly B-52 after the two F-5s are show down and then at the very end I'm just trying to lock up my AWACS and I can't find it forever even though I know exactly where it is). Probably just my lack of experience, so I appreciate any suggestions to help me get more proficient with using the radar.

 

I'm a little short of time right now, but i downloaded the track and will have a look as soon possible - that could be today or in one week - i don't know right now...

[unknown]

On 3/13/2021 at 12:40 AM, Doc3908 said:

I just re-flew the mission (it's the standard instant-action Su-27 "Bomber Intercept" mission - I just replaced the Su-27s with JF-17s). The track file is 8.2MB, so I put it in dropbox (https://www.dropbox.com/s/xpyv0d3voha7sgj/Bomber_Intercept.trk?dl=0). I did better in terms of finding the targets, but at times I'm still struggling (like that silly B-52 after the two F-5s are show down and then at the very end I'm just trying to lock up my AWACS and I can't find it forever even though I know exactly where it is). Probably just my lack of experience, so I appreciate any suggestions to help me get more proficient with using the radar.

 

Ok i had some time this morning to watch your track. I think the track is not replaying correct(?) because you crash in a dive after 3min. But that is no problem, i renamed the .trk in .miz and flew it myself to test the mission. 

 

Short answer:

- the enemy is close and flying slightly above your radar cone/covered airspace.

 

Long answer:

- in the video you posted there was the problem with the radar elevation moving to the max down position - this is not the case anymore in your track

- to be able to use the BVR(TWS) "mode" in that mission you have to bind the radar elevation axis and you need to work it - make sure it will not jump to positions you don't want like in the video you posted

- if you move the radar elevation slightly above(up) the default/middle position you will start to see the contacts on your radar - they are close(less then the 40nm default radar range) and flying slightly above the radar cone in the default position ~1k ft

- additionally the JF-17 is slightly "limited" in the radar cone coverage - depending of the radar mode/scan azimuth your scan bars(elevation) is more limited than in other jets(F-18...)

- you can see in the picture/screenshot of the radar - enemy distance ~5nm and the hight coverage of the radar is only from 21k ft to 23k ft - right of the radar cursor - this is with a slightly elevated radar cone, in the default position(like in your track) it would only cover 20k ft to 22k ft at that distance -> no contact on display

- for contacts that close you do the right thing to switch to ACM modes

 

sorry for the crap drawing, but i had not much time

 

 

 

[Doc3908]

15 hours ago, unknown said:

Ok i had some time this morning to watch your track. I think the track is not replaying correct(?) because you crash in a dive after 3min. But that is no problem, i renamed the .trk in .miz and flew it myself to test the mission. 

 

Short answer:

- the enemy is close and flying slightly above your radar cone/covered airspace.

 

Long answer:

- in the video you posted there was the problem with the radar elevation moving to the max down position - this is not the case anymore in your track

- to be able to use the BVR(TWS) "mode" in that mission you have to bind the radar elevation axis and you need to work it - make sure it will not jump to positions you don't want like in the video you posted

- if you move the radar elevation slightly above(up) the default/middle position you will start to see the contacts on your radar - they are close(less then the 40nm default radar range) and flying slightly above the radar cone in the default position ~1k ft

- additionally the JF-17 is slightly "limited" in the radar cone coverage - depending of the radar mode/scan azimuth your scan bars(elevation) is more limited than in other jets(F-18...)

- you can see in the picture/screenshot of the radar - enemy distance ~5nm and the hight coverage of the radar is only from 21k ft to 23k ft - right of the radar cursor - this is with a slightly elevated radar cone, in the default position(like in your track) it would only cover 20k ft to 22k ft at that distance -> no contact on display

- for contacts that close you do the right thing to switch to ACM modes

 

sorry for the crap drawing, but i had not much time

 

 

 

 

Once again, my sincere thanks for taking the time to help me out!!! My problems were a combination of improperly set up antenna elevation (turns out it was somehow bound to my left rudder pedal as well! LoL!) and my inexperience with scanning using the radar elevation. The other thing is that this particular mission starts you in the air and pretty close to the bandits. By the time I get my systems set up, the F-5s are within the 10mi range. At any rate, I'm getting much better at operating the radar now. Thank you SO MUCH for all your time and advice. I really appreciate it. 

[[PTF]Ali]