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Standard curvature of stick makes F16 pull lots of G with little input - why is it set up that way?


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I use a thrustmaster warthog stick to fly the F16. I have no curves or deadzones applied. Everything is standard.

I realized that when I pull the stick back for around 1/4 of the capable travel of the stick the F16 pulls around 4 Gs. I also tried with another cheaper stick too, with comparable results.

So if we consider the F16 being able to pull 8 to 9 Gs I have 3/4 of travel of the stick to command the remaining amount of Gs from 4 G to 9Gs.

Wouldnt it make sense that pulling the stick half back, commands the FLCS to pull 4 Gs? So it would be spread out evenly in a linear way? What sense does it make to have a reduced sensitivity for the first 4 Gs I can command, then the remaining sensitivity is spread out for the remaining 4Gs from 4G to 9 Gs?

I know that the  real F16 comes with a force sensing stick. But maybe someone can clarify why we have that behavior.

Sure I can apply my own curves to counter that but I am just interested in whats going on.

 


Edited by darkman222
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Try setting your curves to -20 for pitch and roll.  I’ve done that, and it feels alive now.  Much less input to deal with, also as a bonus is makes PIO’s less prevalent when AAR.

 

Until a pressure command stick is available for the sim (like it uses in real life) - it will always be a compromise for us all.  As for why it isn’t fully linear - no idea - probably because there are so many different input devices out there, they settled on a compromise?  IDK

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie


Edited by Ziptie
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i7 6700 @4ghz, 32GB HyperX Fury ddr4-2133 ram, GTX980, Oculus Rift CV1, 2x1TB SSD drives (one solely for DCS OpenBeta standalone) Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Cougar MFDs

 

Airframes: A10C, A10CII, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-16C, UH=1H, FC3. Modules: Combined Arms, Supercarrier. Terrains: Persian Gulf, Nevada NTTR, Syria

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Wouldn't setting the curvature to -20 make the problem the OP describes even worse? I understand it he wants it the other way around.

CPU: i7-10700 | RAM: 32GB DDR4 3200MHz | GPU: NVIDIA RTX 2080 Super 8GB | STORAGE: Samsung 970 EVO M.2 1TB | DISPLAY: LG 43UN7100 43" | STICK: Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog

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2 hours ago, Ryann said:

Wouldn't setting the curvature to -20 make the problem the OP describes even worse? I understand it he wants it the other way around.

 

 

The negative curve "brings on the g's" with less stick movement.

As for whether this would be an issue for the OP - unknown.  But the OP could choose to try the negative curve, see if they liked it.  If not, try a positive curve, see if they liked it.  All down to user preference.

I prefer to move the stick much less, when flying the Viper - to try and replicate the real deal (my fancy pressure command base has not been ordered, yet) - hence the negative curve.  I feel that when using the full travel of the TMWH stick - it makes the Viper feel far too sluggish.




Cheers,

 

Ziptie

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i7 6700 @4ghz, 32GB HyperX Fury ddr4-2133 ram, GTX980, Oculus Rift CV1, 2x1TB SSD drives (one solely for DCS OpenBeta standalone) Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Cougar MFDs

 

Airframes: A10C, A10CII, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-16C, UH=1H, FC3. Modules: Combined Arms, Supercarrier. Terrains: Persian Gulf, Nevada NTTR, Syria

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DCS models a full range of 32lbs stick force range, instead of the stick force required to pull 9G (which is 25lbs), so G command will saturate at 78.125% simulated stick force range. Also the F-16 DFLCS has built-in stick gradients (curves), including deadzones. That may explain the non-linearity of pitch response.

 

 

 

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EFM / FCS developer, Deka Ironwork Simulations.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thanks for clarification.

The question is, if I'd change the custom curve manually on top of the actual curve to get a more linear feeling, doesnt that give a totally distorted response curve?

I dont know, maybe its a stupid idea. But if ED offered in the custom aircraft settings a checkbox to remove the gradient, which then leads to a linear response curve, wouldnt that be better and easier for users with a traditional gimballig stick?

Of course that would be sort of unrealistic, but the minority of people around here own a force sensing stick (FSSB or equivalent) like used in the real aircraft?


Edited by darkman222
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  • 1 month later...

If I understand correctly the current curve depicts the actual curve the F16 has with its force sensing not or not much moving stick. That leads to pulling more Gs with a traditional gimballing stick like a warthog. So you expect to request half the amount of Gs with a half pulled stick, but in fact requesting much more.

Its cool for FSSB stick owners for sure. If it will help on a stick equipped with stronger springs, maybe?!

It just irritates me switching between the hornet and the viper, when the response curve changes.  I cant adapt so quickly.

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On 5/6/2021 at 10:48 PM, darkman222 said:

If I understand correctly the current curve depicts the actual curve the F16 has with its force sensing not or not much moving stick. That leads to pulling more Gs with a traditional gimballing stick like a warthog. So you expect to request half the amount of Gs with a half pulled stick, but in fact requesting much more.

Its cool for FSSB stick owners for sure. If it will help on a stick equipped with stronger springs, maybe?!

It just irritates me switching between the hornet and the viper, when the response curve changes.  I cant adapt so quickly.

That's why I stick to the Viper. I have gotten used to the response curve on the Viper and do kinda like it(I have 0 curve and 0 deadzone with a warthog stick). 

 

Now if I switch to another jet like an F-15 or M2000, I just feel the response curves are way too sensitive (with 0 curve). 

 

When I save up enough money, I'm going to switch to FSSB and get the authentic experience of flying the Viper. 

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  • 1 month later...
On 5/11/2021 at 9:18 AM, 104th_Blaze said:

Because it's not a bus like the Hornet 😉

 

I do recommend a curve of 20-25, especially if as a TMW user.

I have -25 on roll axis, pitch set to default

Without it, it rolls very sluggishly, requiring me to do full deflections to gain the wanted roll speed.

Makes air to air refueling tricky though

 

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