Newbie wanting to get into dcs vr without hotas, seeking advice

[Penguinonice27]

So as you can see I’m brand new, and I wanted to get into dcs. I recently got a window mixed reality headset and saw a YouTube video where a guy flew the su25 with only vr hand controllers and voice attack. I have to move my laptop and peripherals every 2 days or so. Could I try that setup on a fc3 aircraft such as the su27 binding all commands to voice attack, and using the hand controllers for the virtual flightstick and throttle. If not I’ve heard the gladiator nxt might work for my predicament as it’s a compact stick that is considered the best below $250. Any advice or suggestions would be much appreciated.

Edited March 21, 2021 by Penguinonice27

[speed-of-heat]

Joysticks/HOTAS  are in short supply at the moment, so some of the prices can be a bit crazy, but, using them will provide the best experience, especially in FC3 where the aircraft have no clickable cockpits, so clicking on switches with your controller is not an option.

 

voice attack can work as a substitute, but, it will take a while to set up, and it will slow some interactions down, so you will have to plan a bit more ahead. people say nice things about the gladiator, but it’s not something I have played with personally.

 

playing flight Sims is a niche, playing in vr is a niche within a niche, and playing with hand controllers is a niche again, so expect a some edge conditions that will require patience to work through, if you have the option to get a  stick, I would recommend it.

[Penguinonice27]

10 hours ago, speed-of-heat said:

Joysticks/HOTAS  are in short supply at the moment, so some of the prices can be a bit crazy, but, using them will provide the best experience, especially in FC3 where the aircraft have no clickable cockpits, so clicking on switches with your controller is not an option.

 

voice attack can work as a substitute, but, it will take a while to set up, and it will slow some interactions down, so you will have to plan a bit more ahead. people say nice things about the gladiator, but it’s not something I have played with personally.

 

playing flight Sims is a niche, playing in vr is a niche within a niche, and playing with hand controllers is a niche again, so expect a some edge conditions that will require patience to work through, if you have the option to get a  stick, I would recommend it.

In that case would having something such as a CH flightstick, twcs, and voice attack combo work with vr ? Over the past few days I’ve been looking into getting a high fidelity module instead, namely the f-5 or hornet, and that combo would have a sufficient amount of buttons with voice attack for a high fidelity module right ?

[speed-of-heat]

Yes it should be fine, I still use voice attack, with my warthog  and f16 stick, my notes of caution would be:

 

- no rudders, which won’t be as much of a problem in a modern jet, but you might want to map some buttons to left and right  rudder, or see if you can get a stick with an axis.

 

- software, if you intend to use the software to program the buttons to do “things” you will end up running target and whatever ch uses. You should be able to use them without programming them however, just installing the drivers should be fine.

 

i recognise you are on a budget, if you can extend to the combat stick from Ch or the fighter stick, that would give you more options, similarly if can find the pro throttle from ch that’s a good product that integrates well with the stick.

 

for module, I don’t know what your experience is, but the hornet is easy to fly and lots to learn on how to fight it effectively, the f-5 is a wonderful jet, but is quite limited, and much harder to learn to fly. I would also consider the f-16.

 

I hope that helps,  

 

 

 

 

[Penguinonice27]

8 hours ago, speed-of-heat said:

Yes it should be fine, I still use voice attack, with my warthog  and f16 stick, my notes of caution would be:

 

- no rudders, which won’t be as much of a problem in a modern jet, but you might want to map some buttons to left and right  rudder, or see if you can get a stick with an axis.

 

- software, if you intend to use the software to program the buttons to do “things” you will end up running target and whatever ch uses. You should be able to use them without programming them however, just installing the drivers should be fine.

 

i recognise you are on a budget, if you can extend to the combat stick from Ch or the fighter stick, that would give you more options, similarly if can find the pro throttle from ch that’s a good product that integrates well with the stick.

 

for module, I don’t know what your experience is, but the hornet is easy to fly and lots to learn on how to fight it effectively, the f-5 is a wonderful jet, but is quite limited, and much harder to learn to fly. I would also consider the f-16.

 

I hope that helps,  

 

 

 

 

Just saw a used ch combatstick and pro throttle for $100 so I might take your word and pick that up, and I’ll try to focus on getting the hornet if it comes on sale in the near future. Thanks for the advice

[shu77]

The Gladiator is a very decent looking stick that I would honestly look at seriously if I needed to replace my warthog., Personally if you are on a budget I would still try and pair it with a base level Throttle or you will miss a lot of the experience, as the buttons help greatly as well as being able to adjust the throttle without looking, even something like a Tflight throttle, T16000 will up your experience significantly when paired with a Gladiator.  Depending on what you are flying you may find the lack of a second throttle annoying but honestly for the most part you will find you never move your throttles asymmetrically so you can get away with it.  ALternately if you can find an X52 you cant go wrong.  I went through several months on a Gaming laptop before pulling the pin on my current rig, It is very frustrating and ultimately contributed to me flying less than I wanted, but I was glad to have the HOTAS so when I did set up I could fly properly. 

[speed-of-heat]

I agree a "gaming laptop" is typically a suboptimal experience in the $/fun ratio, but the OP said he had to move every couple of days, which is thankfully not something i have to contend with ...

 

X52 also a great stick throttle combo!

[shu77]

X-52 was still the stick I did most of my flying with. Best single throttle solution out there.  Warthog is better, but demands space to set up properly.  There are far better solutions if you want to keep to a desk.

[speed-of-heat]

Agreed the x52 is a great entry Hotas and also light which I think might be factor, from his description. And I had one for many many years. If he can get one at the same price then that would be a good choice.

[StevanJ]

On 3/21/2021 at 1:23 AM, Penguinonice27 said:

So as you can see I’m brand new, and I wanted to get into dcs. I recently got a window mixed reality headset and saw a YouTube video where a guy flew the su25 with only vr hand controllers and voice attack. I have to move my laptop and peripherals every 2 days or so. Could I try that setup on a fc3 aircraft such as the su27 binding all commands to voice attack, and using the hand controllers for the virtual flightstick and throttle. If not I’ve heard the gladiator nxt might work for my predicament as it’s a compact stick that is considered the best below $250. Any advice or suggestions would be much appreciated.

 

I moved away from my HOTAS (Warthog) this year, and moved to Touch Controls.

With doing so, i can comfortably play the game anywhere my laptop is..
In VR there is no difference between playing this on a laptop, and a gaming computer/desktop (as youll see from the videos ive tested this game on nearly every setup -even an old RX580) when you play on VR.
The in Game settings on a desktop is the same as the in game settings on a laptop.

While it takes some practice to master, once you master using them, anything is possible.

In my opinion- using them wirelessly with a keyboard seems quicker and more efficient than getting out and plugging in the HOTAS, each time i want to faff around in the game.
While some people prefer a HOTAS, i just dont. Even when flying the Huey the ability to just jump straight in, and fly using your body and only hand eye co-ordination just feels way more immersive to me.

Only you will know -if its worth buying a HOTAS, just to have the extra buttons at your fingertips, or wether or not, you can do it on the keyboard and have the buttons also at your fingertips.
But give it a go, and see where you are. Just becareful as not all modules have Touch Controls enabled.

[Penguinonice27]

36 minutes ago, StevanJ said:

I moved away from my HOTAS (Warthog) this year, and moved to Touch Controls.

With doing so, i can comfortably play the game anywhere my laptop is..
In VR there is no difference between playing this on a laptop, and a gaming computer/desktop (as youll see from the videos ive tested this game on nearly every setup -even an old RX580) when you play on VR.
The in Game settings on a desktop is the same as the in game settings on a laptop.

While it takes some practice to master, once you master using them, anything is possible.

In my opinion- using them wirelessly with a keyboard seems quicker and more efficient than getting out and plugging in the HOTAS, each time i want to faff around in the game.
While some people prefer a HOTAS, i just dont. Even when flying the Huey the ability to just jump straight in, and fly using your body and only hand eye co-ordination just feels way more immersive to me.

Only you will know -if its worth buying a HOTAS, just to have the extra buttons at your fingertips, or wether or not, you can do it on the keyboard and have the buttons also at your fingertips.
But give it a go, and see where you are. Just becareful as not all modules have Touch Controls enabled.

What is or would be your work around solution for firing weapons and anything mapped to the hotas on the real aircraft without using a keyboard? Apparently if the headset fits and you can’t see out of the nose area trying to type blind is well blind. Also do you know if there is a list of modules that support be controllers?

Edited March 23, 2021 by Penguinonice27

[StevanJ]

6 minutes ago, Penguinonice27 said:

What is or would be your work around solution for firing weapons and anything mapped to the hotas on the real aircraft without using a keyboard? Apparently if the headset fits and you can’t see out of the nose area trying to type blind is well blind. Also do you know if there is a list of modules that support be controllers?

 

 

The F-5 (i think) might be changing on the 27th but this is the only list we have until ED/DCS recognise that a list is needed/required.
 

Ok, so everything is very easily found on the keyboard, as most of the systems revolve around the cluster of buttons right of the spacebar..
With only the A/A systems needing the left side of the space bar.
Once you can find the space bar (in the dark- with your headset on), Youre good to go.
Then all you need to know, is the correct buttons to use for each system (which is exacty what youd need to do anywith with a HOTAS).
Once youve learned the basics, everything is fully functional from the Touch Controls- anything else youll need in the game can be found by identifying the space bar with your hand..
It works extremely well. Just like it would in any other game.

If you however want to bind buttons to your touch controller, you can do that to with 'Touch Binder' software.. But i prefer the keyboard.

[speed-of-heat]

If you do end up getting the ch stick and throttle make sure they are usb ones...

[Penguinonice27]

12 minutes ago, speed-of-heat said:

If you do end up getting the ch stick and throttle make sure they are usb ones...

Yup the ones I found are usb, I’ve decided to get those and a tomcat, any last words of advice ? Also if I got a 14 pin connector one with an adapter what would be the difference ?

Edited March 23, 2021 by Penguinonice27

[speed-of-heat]

You likely wouldn’t be able to use the 14 pin version on a modern version of windows, and would need an additional adaptator at the very least.

 

tomcat is a great aircraft, but, it’s much ore difficult to fly and the 18, IMO, also with the ai Rio, you will have a lot more to understand to get “functional”... but I can’t argue I love the module, but, I wouldn’t recommend it for a beginner (which is an assumption on my part)

[Penguinonice27]

11 minutes ago, speed-of-heat said:

You likely wouldn’t be able to use the 14 pin version on a modern version of windows, and would need an additional adaptator at the very least.

 

tomcat is a great aircraft, but, it’s much ore difficult to fly and the 18, IMO, also with the ai Rio, you will have a lot more to understand to get “functional”... but I can’t argue I love the module, but, I wouldn’t recommend it for a beginner (which is an assumption on my part)

Ok, my reasoning for the tomcat vs the f-18 lies twofold: A, the tomcat seems more interesting and something id be more invested in, even as a beginner, B, my other problem with the f18 is that it uses too many mfds, and that makes the tomcat easier in my opinion, as I’d gladly trade ease of flying and a computer telling me when I can’t turn vs having nice and simple to read steam dials. Also in vr having controls just put as switches and dials seems to be easier to use in the long run, even if the raw material is harder to learn for what does what. I am indeed a beginner, so the assumption was right.

[Penguinonice27]

If we exclude what I said earlier, what would be the best starter high fidelity aircraft that is interesting past basic training, after i learn to fly the fc3 planes, excluding the hornet ?

Edited March 23, 2021 by Penguinonice27

[dburne]

Why not consider ED's first full fidelity jet - the A-10C?

[Penguinonice27]

3 minutes ago, dburne said:

Why not consider ED's first full fidelity jet - the A-10C?

Main reason is because I don't really have any connection to it, don't care about ground attack too much to consider it worth $40-$80, its universally called the most complex module in dcs, and if I buy fc3 i get it's earlier cousin that's simpler to use, and probably just as fun if i do like ground attack.

[StevanJ]

1 hour ago, Penguinonice27 said:

Ok, my reasoning for the tomcat vs the f-18 lies twofold: A, the tomcat seems more interesting and something id be more invested in, even as a beginner, B, my other problem with the f18 is that it uses too many mfds, and that makes the tomcat easier in my opinion, as I’d gladly trade ease of flying and a computer telling me when I can’t turn vs having nice and simple to read steam dials. Also in vr having controls just put as switches and dials seems to be easier to use in the long run, even if the raw material is harder to learn for what does what. I am indeed a beginner, so the assumption was right.

If you want to learn Intercepting, get the Tomcat.
If you want to learn everything, get the FA18.

They are two different jets for two different times.

The FA-18 is intuitive, relatively easy to fly and rewarding when flying with more complexity.
The Tomcat is great at taking out an enemy from half a map away.
The FA18 is great. The Tomcat is great. But they are completely different in their roles.
There is NO problem with having multiple MFD's (guys who have multi monitor setups will tell you why they are more productive than a single setup).
 

 

28 minutes ago, Penguinonice27 said:

If we exclude what I said earlier, what would be the best starter high fidelity aircraft that is interesting past basic training excluding the hornet ?

The Focke Wolf 190D is my personal favourite.
Or the Huey..

This question is too vague. So hopefully this helps..

Please step in with your own views here.
Ive flown the A10C2, great air support aircraft, but slow when compared to the FA18. Always 'a tough mission'..
The F16 is great, but early on into its features when compared to the FA18. Always wishing 'i was in an FA18'.
The F14 Tomcat is superior to most planes except the SU-27 when dogfighting up close where id rather be in an F16 or FA-18 in 'dogfight mode' with the HMD.

Whatever i do, i always end up in the FA18, because i can do the most effective work in that airframe.
Its just that good.
Today i cleared 6 airbases while a squad of 2 A10's and an F16 took down two. It wasnt pilot skill, because im rubbish.
Its just down to how intuitive the FA18 is and how easy it is to clear a base with 8 JSOWS and 2 bombs underneath Vs the speed of an A10, and the arnament of an F16.

The F16 isnt forgiving. The FA18 is.,
I love flying the F16 on long range big squad missions. But if im flying solo, im in the Hornet, because it delivers so much more per aircraft..

[Penguinonice27]

16 minutes ago, StevanJ said:

If you want to learn Intercepting, get the Tomcat.
If you want to learn everything, get the FA18.

They are two different jets for two different times.

The FA-18 is intuitive, relatively easy to fly and rewarding when flying with more complexity.
The Tomcat is great at taking out an enemy from half a map away.
The FA18 is great. The Tomcat is great. But they are completely different in their roles.
There is NO problem with having multiple MFD's (guys who have multi monitor setups will tell you why they are more productive than a single setup).
 

 

The Focke Wolf 190D is my personal favourite.
Or the Huey..

This question is too vague. So hopefully this helps..

Please step in with your own views here.
Ive flown the A10C2, great air support aircraft, but slow when compared to the FA18. Always 'a tough mission'..
The F16 is great, but early on into its features when compared to the FA18. Always wishing 'i was in an FA18'.
The F14 Tomcat is superior to most planes except the SU-27 when dogfighting up close where id rather be in an F16 or FA-18 in 'dogfight mode' with the HMD.

Whatever i do, i always end up in the FA18, because i can do the most effective work in that airframe.
Its just that good.
Today i cleared 6 airbases while a squad of 2 A10's and an F16 took down two. It wasnt pilot skill, because im rubbish.
Its just down to how intuitive the FA18 is and how easy it is to clear a base with 8 JSOWS and 2 bombs underneath Vs the speed of an A10, and the arnament of an F16.

The F16 isnt forgiving. The FA18 is.,
I love flying the F16 on long range big squad missions. But if im flying solo, im in the Hornet, because it delivers so much more per aircraft..

In that case that throws me into f18 vs fc3, I think I’ll throw in the towel for the moment and get fc3 to learn, thanks for the insight.

[ShaunX]

I took the FC3 route to get into DCS and started with the F-15C, which was great and kept me very busy for few months. However, then ED did one of their regular "free to play all aircraft" periods and I tried the full fidelity F-16C and was completely blown away and bought it (actually, my wife bought it for my birthday) and honestly I haven't been back in a low fidelity jet since.

 

So for me FC3 was a bit of a waste of money as I've scarcely been in it's other jets at all. Kinda wish I'd just bought the F-15C for 15 bucks. It's a great stepping stone up to any of the full fidelity fighters if that's where you want to go.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[shu77]

There was a lot of fun to be had in FC3 10 years ago when it was the only way to fly a2a sorties, and it is still the only way to fly a Russian jet.  Now days it does feel a little less interesting.  I've always wondered though why they havent upgraded either the Mig or the SU to a DCS clickable cockpit as a V2.0 experience.  

[speed-of-heat]

1 minute ago, shu77 said:

There was a lot of fun to be had in FC3 10 years ago when it was the only way to fly a2a sorties, and it is still the only way to fly a Russian jet.  Now days it does feel a little less interesting.  I've always wondered though why they havent upgraded either the Mig or the SU to a DCS clickable cockpit as a V2.0 experience.  

They don’t want to go to a Russian prison... which is seriously the reason they have only done one full fidelity aircraft the KA-50, and had to re-think their approach on the KA-50 upgrade.  Russian law is well very Russian...

[shu77]

Yeah I know they havent developed anything new because of Russian Law, But I did wonder about a clickable Mig29 using the existing config.  From memory it has one of the most advanced EFM's though perhaps its the same problem.  Its funny that the fellow doing the SU-57 doesnt seem to have the same problem getting access as ED are.