Suggestion new DCS Pc - Ryzen 7 - Nvidia GeForce RTX 3070

[CooperS]

Hi, I like to order a new PC mostly for DCS. The Required specs are easy to get, but in the forum I read a lot people advice much higher specs. For example the GeForce RTX 3070 is really advices. 

I have a 32 widescreen monitor, and maybe like to use in the future VR aswel. But my budget is not unlimited.  Now I was thinking about this config (with an RAM upgrade from 16 to 32 RAM): https://reduxgaming.nl/gaming-pc/redux-gamer-advanced-a210/?games=arma-3&res=2160p
 

CPU AMD Ryzen 7 5800X

GPU Nvidia GeForce RTX 3070 (8GB)

RAM HyperX Fury 32GB (3200MHz)

SSD WD Blue SN550 NVMe SSD 1TB (2.400MB/s)

 

 

Actually my budget was till 2000k. But since then it was not possible to go for Ryzen 7 5800X, (but stay add Ryzen 5) I decided to .

 

Look very forward to hear if I miss something. Since upgrading is always an option, but choose the wrong setup should be a shame...

Edited March 22, 2021 by CooperS

[Wali763]

Hi.

 

I cant give you any advice, but some thoughts though......

 

The system in the link with 32GB seems quite fine. That way one at least could get a decent GPU at a moderate price.

 

More specific:

 

First the 5800x. Great CPU, but tends to get hot and therefore sometimes noisy. There are workarounds, that might decrease performance a bit, but still Id see to get (or add) a decent cooler with it. Ive got a 5600x with a  big Nocuta-cooler and the cooler stays very quiet all the time, most time almost inaudible. Still a 5600x or a 10700K or even a 10700 non-K could be a cheap and good alternative.

 

I dont know about the RAM. HyperX seems to be quiet expensive. I made an upgrade form 3000-16 to 3600-16 and did not see a difference; also upbraded from 32 to 64GB again with almost no differnce. In some missions I do have up to 40G B of RAM-usage now, but it hard to tell the difference.... I guess, cheaper 3200 Ram (CL16??) would do also and I guess that will be in the set anyway. CL14 would be nice, but costs much more than it helps IMO.

 

About the SSD:  its not important if its a NVMW or a SATA-SSD. For quite some time I had Win10 on an 500GB-SSD (Samsung 860Evo) and DCS on a 500GB-M.2-PCIE-SSD (NVME; Samsung 970Evo) and just recently, when doing a fresh setup changed that, so Win runs from the NVME and DCS runs from the SSD. I saw no difference at all. From what Ive seen on youtube, differences between PCIE 4.0, 3.0 or (non-cheapo) SSDs arent big and in normal usage almost neglegible. But Id prefer a two-drive (in my case a three-drive) setup. Its much nicer to only setup windows and no need to download DCS again..

 

Regarding GPU it all depends on your usage.  Ive got a 1440p 32K monitor and my 2070super is doing quite well. For a 1440p widescreen the 2070 will still be ok and the 3070 very fine. As for VR its a compromise anyway. When testing VR with my 2070, I had an ok experience with the Reverb G1 and Rift S but the G2 needed quite some tuning down.

 

Anyway: I often said in the past, with DCS one could invest 1000Euros and see only a small change. I still think this is true. DCS just seems to waste recources, so Id personall would choose the middle way as the system in the link. Going much more expensive will only give you a small increase in overall experience and still ask for a lot of compromises. 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 23, 2021 by Wali763

[CooperS]

Hi @Wali763 

 

thx for taking the time to share your opinion. This is helpful for me! I will do some more research and keep this in mind! 

[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

I am in the process too of getting a new PC build but am deciding between the Ryzen7 5800x and Intel i7 11700K. I know the Ryzen runs hot like up to 80-90C while the i7 is significantly cooler. They are about the same price in my region. What do you guys think?

[Apar]

On 3/25/2021 at 7:56 PM, GrEaSeLiTeNiN said:

I am in the process too of getting a new PC build but am deciding between the Ryzen7 5800x and Intel i7 11700K. I know the Ryzen runs hot like up to 80-90C while the i7 is significantly cooler. They are about the same price in my region. What do you guys think?

 

I am too looking at this.. have you bought yours yet?.. maybe im leaning towards 11700k due to it having a igpu which ive heard can be slaved to obs for recording..  similar price and performance.. but with the 5800x and DCS plans of moving the Vulkan i doubt the increase on performance for amd systems would be minor? Some programs also being able to utilize igpu of intel systems might be a bigger benefit plus it comes as a backup in case gpu goes down..

[LucShep]

On 3/25/2021 at 11:56 AM, GrEaSeLiTeNiN said:

I am in the process too of getting a new PC build but am deciding between the Ryzen7 5800x and Intel i7 11700K. I know the Ryzen runs hot like up to 80-90C while the i7 is significantly cooler. They are about the same price in my region. What do you guys think?

 

There is another advantage with Intel if compared to AMD - price on memory (RAM).

With the Intel i7 11700K you'll be good with whatever DDR4 3200MHz CL16 or 3600MHz CL18 kit of 2 sticks.

With the AMD Ryzen 7 5800X you'll want specific DDR4 3200Mhz CL14 or 3600Mhz CL16 (Samsung B-die) kit of 4 sticks.

If you're getting 64GB+ RAM, just see the difference in prices....... 

 

Having said that, and having choices, I would go for neither of them.

The i9 10850K came down in price (f.ex, $390.00 right now in Amazon, get it while it lasts!) and so makes for a better investment than either i7 11700K or Ryzen 7 5800X.

 

Edited August 20, 2021 by LucShep

[reece146]

I generally agree with 10850K being a great CPU choice but given that the 11700K is something like ~10% faster in single core performance I'd be inclined to go with the 11700k for a gaming rig.

 

Will you notice 10% single core performance in "the real world" in DCS? Especially when discussing all the current best of breed CPUs? Maybe? Maybe not? Depends on how you use DCS (mission complexity, single vs multi-player, modern vs vintage, etc.).

 

FWIW, there's not much in it for single core performance between the 5600X, 5800X and 11700K. They are all within a percentage or two of one another by the benchmarks. That's been my experience.

 

HTH

Edited August 21, 2021 by reece146

[LucShep]

1 hour ago, reece146 said:

I generally agree with 10850K being a great CPU choice but given that the 11700K is something like ~10% faster in single core performance I'd be inclined to go with the 11700k for a gaming rig.

 

Will you notice 10% single core performance in "the real world" in DCS? Especially when discussing all the current best of breed CPUs? Maybe? Maybe not? Depends on how you use DCS (mission complexity, single vs multi-player, modern vs vintage, etc.).

 

 

Unfortunately I haven't build any systems yet with 11th gen Intel, so haven't had the oportunity to see, directly and indepth, wether it's any better than 10th gen for DCS.

 

However, if judging from MSFS forums and benchmarks, which is the closest we have right now to DCS regarding unoptimization and limitations (single-threaded IPC biased), the performance difference seems to be null (within margin of error) between the 10th and 11th gen i9 "K" CPUs.

 

EDIT: found a video comparing the two directly in MSFS:

 

Now, again, $400.00~ for an Intel i9 10850K (10c/20t) processor that is just a 10900K in disguise....

 

I don't know what's the general mindset in these forums but, to me, even if game performance is to be very much the same, it doesn't make sense to invest the same money (if not more) in 8c/16t processors (=20% less cores), when you can get a kickass 10c/20t processor (which you can also overclock, if ever inclined), now in discount.
 

Those extra cores (once again, for same money) may be very usefull in the future (who knows how DCS with Vulkan engine will be?), if not for other games/applications today. 

Same impact hit (single-thread perf.) but with wider blast (multi-thread perf).  

 

Edited August 21, 2021 by LucShep

[Thinder]

A few things:

 

First, you gain more with a proper RAM/CPU bounding than OCing your CPU which nulifies the warranty for a similar extra cost due to high quality RAM premium.

 

Second, DCS doesn't work better with more cores but it will respond way better if you don't have a RAM bottleneck forcing your CPU to throttle back under load,. you can bet your next X-Mass turkey that both Intel and AMD will come up with a new socket before DCS can use more than two Cores efficiently.

 

Then you don't need more than 32GB so you can budget your RAM within reasonable amounts of money and still buy quality components such as B.Die RAM.

 

B.Die RAM are available for both Intel and AMD.

 

Last but not least: You need good case cooling, make sure you get fresh air inside the case, I use an Artic Freezer 7X and never got more than 76°C at full load but my case is vented by 3 high-speed and two high-ressure 120mm fans, I also made sure two of them are aligned to the CPU cooler fan. One high pressure vents the GPU while the second one exhaust the hot air just behind the CPU fan.

 

>>>

 

IF you go the AMD way, a 3200MHz B.Die kit will do the job just fine, just make sure that; you have a maximum of 4 ranks, meaning 2 X 2 or 4 X 1 ranks configuration, those are the limits imposed by what the controller can cope with: 3200 MHz which is the frequency at which the manufaturer guaranty CPU maximum performances.

 

Ryzen CPUs does a lot better with low latency than high frequencies, Cl16 being the maximum reasonable for good performances, Cl14 is best.

Above 3200MHz, the higher the RAM speed, the lower the CPU speed guaranteed. Again, Controllers limits. 3200MHz/4 ranks.

 

A 4 X 1 configuration make sure your CPU will use interleaving and it add to the overal performances of the RAM, B.die doesn't add to performances as such but as a much more stable material, allows for much tighter BIOS frequencies timings.

 

You might think that the premium coming with this sort of RAM kits is not worth it, I disagree and I got a 6.4% increase in CPU performance from going from a Crucial 2 X 16Cl to my actual RAM kit, same frequency, same capacity and since the CPU also set the CPU-to-GPU bus speed, I got an extra 1.33% increase in GPU performances.

 

For your info, ALL of those figures are the result of a back-to-back 3DMark Pro test at 4K.

 

 

  

On 3/22/2021 at 8:20 PM, CooperS said:

 

CPU AMD Ryzen 7 5800X

GPU Nvidia GeForce RTX 3070 (8GB)

RAM HyperX Fury 32GB (3200MHz)

SSD WD Blue SN550 NVMe SSD 1TB (2.400MB/s)

 

 

Actually my budget was till 2000k. But since then it was not possible to go for Ryzen 7 5800X, (but stay add Ryzen 5) I decided to .

 

Look very forward to hear if I miss something. Since upgrading is always an option, but choose the wrong setup should be a shame...

 

 

Now, 2000K for a 5600X is just not realistic if you want to play DCS at 4K but you can save money by shopping around for the best deals:

 

Why go for a 7 5800X? A well cooled and RAM-bounded 5600X will do you just fine, the 5600X is way more energy efficient meaning it will be easier to cool.

 

The difference between the two in terms of performances is not worth the extra dosh, basically, the best gaming AMD CPU for budget players is the 5600X, so if I were you, I'd save the extra dosh and spash it in a Cl14 B.Die RAM kit.

 

What I can recommand if you can build your CPU yourself it will save money. Start with a quality power supply that will guaranty continuous 750W minimum.

 

Where you can actually SAVE money is by using known good deals: The MSI B450 Gaming Plus Max is cheap, very good quality and with BIOS update supports all AMD new gen CPUs.

 

You can fit a SAMSUNG 500GB 970 EVO Plus SSD to it, it has a slot for it and is <> 10 times faster than a SATA read/write, your SSD WD Blue SN550 NVMe SSD 1TB would fit as well.

 

Artic 7X Freezer cooler.

 

Passed this, it's a matter of looking around for the best money can buy within your budget, personally I chose to cut corners when it comes to the case, not that it is bad actualy but not level with more expensive cases when it comes to features (no internal DVD), my GPU is second hand although warranty for two years, I didn't upgrade the fans but added two NOCTUA to the 3 stock 120mm coming with the case.

 

My best buys after use:

 

MSI B450 Gaming Plus Max.

 

G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Desktop Memory Model F4-3200C14Q-32GTZR.

 

Those two are the key components which allows my Ryzen 5600X to perform as it does.

 

https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232488?Item=N82E16820232488

 

 

 

Edited August 21, 2021 by Thinder

[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

On 8/20/2021 at 2:38 AM, Apar said:

 
I am too looking at this.. have you bought yours yet?.. maybe im leaning towards 11700k due to it having a igpu which ive heard can be slaved to obs for recording..  similar price and performance.. but with the 5800x and DCS plans of moving the Vulkan i doubt the increase on performance for amd systems would be minor? Some programs also being able to utilize igpu of intel systems might be a bigger benefit plus it comes as a backup in case gpu goes down..

Yes I finally got my setup in Apr after some research. I did ask the vendor for some advice. Something about the next higher model of CPU and GPU not being worthwhile (at that time). He also said 5600X doesn’t run hot (which it doesn’t and I live in the hot tropics). Don’t wait too long, avoid analysis paralysis Take the plunge and enjoy DCS to its full glory! (I upgraded from an old laptop, so for me it was wow!)

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 5600X
GPU: Gigabyte RTX 3070 Gaming OC 8GB
MOBO: Asus B550 TUF Plus Gaming
SSD: 2TB Aorus Gen4 (R: 5000 | W: 4400)
RAM: 32GB Adata Spectrix D50 3600 Mhz (16x2)
CPU Watercool: Aftershock Spectra Glacier 240mm
PSU: 750W Superflower Legion HX 80+ Gold
CASE: NZXT H510i Compact Mid-Tower
FANS: NZXT Aer F120mm Fans x 2
WIFI: Intel AX Wireless (WI-Fi 6) + Bluetooth 5.0

Vendor (Singapore) - https://www.aftershockpc.com/welcome/Productinner/hypergate-new-5
Screenshots -

Settings:
In-game system settings - https://imgur.com/MURVtrJ
Nvidia control panel settings - https://imgur.com/zErLiu6
Win10 graphics settings
- Hardware-accelerated GPU scheduling ON
- Variable refresh rate ON
(Screenshots in Hoggit are DCS print screens without any editing.)

I don't do MP but on DCS Fast Mission / Persian Gulf / Medium Red & Blue Forces / Broken 2 Clouds, I think I get about FPS 70-80 looking at the cockpit dashboard and about FPS 100+ when looking at the sky. No stuttering.

 

Edited August 24, 2021 by GrEaSeLiTeNiN

[Apar]

On 8/21/2021 at 3:23 AM, LucShep said:

 

There is another advantage with Intel if compared to AMD - price on memory (RAM).

With the Intel i7 11700K you'll be good with whatever DDR4 3200MHz CL16 or 3600MHz CL18 kit of 2 sticks.

With the AMD Ryzen 7 5800X you'll want specific DDR4 3200Mhz CL14 or 3600Mhz CL16 (Samsung B-die) kit of 4 sticks.

If you're getting 64GB+ RAM, just see the difference in prices....... 

 

Having said that, and having choices, I would go for neither of them.

The i9 10850K came down in price (f.ex, $390.00 right now in Amazon, get it while it lasts!) and so makes for a better investment than either i7 11700K or Ryzen 7 5800X.

 

 

 

While the price on RAM for Intel, the price on Mobo also a bit higher(if im not mistaken) so its a 1-1 for both.

I feel that getting the newer system will give you more resale value in the long run. So its either buy cheap now and have low resale or buy a more expensive system (latest feature and compatibility for future upgrades) + better resale due to not being too old. I you have no plans of upgrading for the next 6 years then 10850k would be a good choice. Its just the rate of the development of software applications tend to lean more towards newer hardware specs. 

[LucShep]

8 hours ago, Apar said:

 

While the price on RAM for Intel, the price on Mobo also a bit higher(if im not mistaken) so its a 1-1 for both.

I feel that getting the newer system will give you more resale value in the long run. So its either buy cheap now and have low resale or buy a more expensive system (latest feature and compatibility for future upgrades) + better resale due to not being too old. I you have no plans of upgrading for the next 6 years then 10850k would be a good choice. Its just the rate of the development of software applications tend to lean more towards newer hardware specs. 

 

Not getting where the price of Z590 vs X570 motherboards gets into that equation, really. Neither can I see it offset the the prices of RAM kits(?).

 

For instances, so long as you're not going for SFF builds, the Z590 boards highlighted in the following image will be good for most users, not just for i7 11700K but even for i9 11900K (and able to overclock it @4.9, 1.35v). Prices of these are going from ~160,00 Eur to -230,00 Eur:

 

"Overall, if you’re looking for an affordable yet high quality Z590 motherboard, we recommend the MSI Z590-A Pro and as a backup option the Gigabyte Z590 UD.

If you’ve got a bit more money to spend and want a few extra features, the Asus TUF Gaming Z590-Plus or MSI Z590 Torpedo would be our go-to options."

Source: Intel Z590 Affordable Motherboards Roundup: VRM Test | TechSpot

 

 

I'd say to anyone looking to build a system (or to upgrade) to get the best parts possible (for performance and reliability) within a set budget. That's all that matters.

IMO, to base on resale value is not a compelling reason to select PC hardware parts but, of course, I'll leave that to you.

 

Edited August 29, 2021 by LucShep

[Thinder]

10 hours ago, LucShep said:

I'd say to anyone looking to build a system (or to upgrade) to get the best parts possible (for performance and reliability) within a set budget. That's all that matters.

IMO, to base on resale value is not a compelling reason to select PC hardware parts but, of course, I'll leave that to you.

 

100%+

 

That's what should matter most to all players, and the reason I don't hesitate to run an Nvidia card with my 5600X, I had a very good deal from CEX and a two years warranty.

 

Now, this doesn't mean we can't share our experiences and propose options and choices to those who are planning to build a new PC but I have to highlight the fact that with the newest technologies, new standards will come, including new sockets, which will make Motherboards and PCU near-obsolescent.

 

In the case of AMD we can expect the next socket out by last yearly quarter, I'm not sure about Intel (Socket: LGA 1700?) when it comes to their next socket release but in any case, if you are looking at a budget build today, splashing 3 times as much money on an AMD socket 4 motherboard than what my MSI B450 Gaming Plus Max cost makes absolutely no sense.

 

Of course AMD and board manufacturers will want you to do just that, but if you compare the specs, what they support, what you really need to play online games such as DCS etc, you'll figure that you don't need to spend £150 on a board that will not be compatible with the next generation of CPUs anyway.

 

It's in this optic that I built my PC, the motherboard is not all-dancing-and-singing but it's excellent and support every features I need for best gaming performances today, you can find them for as low as £69.98 without researching too much, then fit any last Gen AMD CPU to it and the best RAM kits available to it.

 

An X570S GAMING X will cost you £169.99 and an MAG X570S TOMAHAWK MAX WIFI £224.99, this difference in cost more than upset the premium one can pay for a B.Die RAM kit and in any case, the performances will be the same, even superior if you save the money and spash it on a B.Die RAM kit.

 

It's not all about cost and features, it's also about what we need.

Edited August 29, 2021 by Thinder

[BitMaster]

Thinder,

 

with which RAM Kit would you bundle a 5900X ( I need the cores for VMware, the extra ram too ) on the Gigabyte X570S Aorus Master ( once available again, it seems to have disappeared in a black hole after the first batch was sold out here n Germany ).

 

Ahh, yes, 64GB  and 500€ RAM budget.  I thought about 128GB but I think 64GB will be enough for my VM and also future DCS needs.

 

The price difference between 3200-14-14-14-34 and 3600-16-16-16-36 is marginal and both run around 8,75ns latency....but I hear you shouting at me "But the CPU doesn't like 3600 under heavy stress". and I think after 4 years of 3600-16-16-16-36/32GB finest RAM running at 3000-14-14-14-34 as max it will take I rather take the safe bet than being stuck with Uber-RAM in a Board that refuses to work properly with them.

 

 

 

Eager to hear your input

 

Bit

 

 

[FETUS]

I run the 3200 CL14 with my 5800X and 5900x and like it.