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MFG Crosswind now offers damper kits for their pedals


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On 4/5/2021 at 1:02 PM, dburne said:

 

Yeah I was very hesitant expecting the damper to make any big difference, but it sure does. 

I did not necessarily need the damper kit, but now I sure would not want to use my pedals without it.

That’s sounds very encouraging, just got my tracking info today. The dampener should be delivered Thursday.  Out of interest did you centre mount it, or mount at an angle.   
 

I see there is both options, just wondering if one is better than other?

 

 

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1 hour ago, Cowboy10uk said:

That’s sounds very encouraging, just got my tracking info today. The dampener should be delivered Thursday.  Out of interest did you centre mount it, or mount at an angle.   
 

I see there is both options, just wondering if one is better than other?

 

Well I had Milan's video up showing how to install, and would pause it to complete one part before moving on to the next.

So I did not see the alternate method of mounting it more in the center by flipping it until I was already finished.

 

So mine is mounted at an angle as his instruction video shows first, and have left it there.

I think it would only be in aesthetics, as I doubt it would make any difference in operation.

Been using the pedals every day and still loving it very much. So freakin smooth it is incredible.

Don B

EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero|

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All now installed.   Pretty damn impressive on my very quick test. Look forward to really testing this out fully.

 

Am I right that to get the best feeling for Helo, I should disconnect the centring spring? 

 

 

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Fighter pilots make movies, Attack pilots make history, Helicopter pilots make heros.

 

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2 hours ago, Cowboy10uk said:

All now installed.   Pretty damn impressive on my very quick test. Look forward to really testing this out fully.

 

Am I right that to get the best feeling for Helo, I should disconnect the centring spring? 

 

I would think so , either that or tighten the dampers down to where they offset the spring if possible.

It has been a long time though since I did any helo flying. Flew the KA-50 a bit a few years ago.

Don B

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1 hour ago, dburne said:

 

I would think so , either that or tighten the dampers down to where they offset the spring if possible.

It has been a long time though since I did any helo flying. Flew the KA-50 a bit a few years ago.

Yep, tried with both and with the spring disconnected OMG, it’s blooming amazing.    Very very impressed, just that one flight alone made it worth the price.  Not that the dampener was expensive by any means.

 

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

Fighter pilots make movies, Attack pilots make history, Helicopter pilots make heros.

 

:pilotfly: Corsair 570x Crystal Case, Intel 8700K O/clocked to 4.8ghz, 32GB Vengeance RGB Pro DDR4 3200 MHZ Ram, 2 x 1TB M2 drives, 2 x 4TB Hard Drives, Nvidia EVGA GTX 1080ti FTW, Maximus x Hero MB, H150i Cooler, 6 x Corsair LL120 RGB Fans And a bloody awful Pilot :doh:

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42 minutes ago, Cowboy10uk said:

Yep, tried with both and with the spring disconnected OMG, it’s blooming amazing.    Very very impressed, just that one flight alone made it worth the price.  Not that the dampener was expensive by any means.

 

:thumbsup:

 

Nice!

Don B

EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero|

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Got mine retrofit kit installed today. Haven't had much time to fly unfortunately, so only did an hour or so of testing. Good impressions so far, though not enthusiastic - the dampened feel in itself is awesome, but noticeable loss of smoothness (infamous "stiction" one could say, as in umodded TH Warthog's case) during very small and slow inputs is a bit concerning. Will have to fiddle with it more and try other settings tomorrow.


Edited by Art-J

i7 9700K @ stock speed, single GTX1070, 32 gigs of RAM, TH Warthog, MFG Crosswind, Win10.

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2 hours ago, Art-J said:

Got mine retrofit kit installed today. Haven't had much time to fly unfortunately, so only did an hour or so of testing. Good impressions so far, though not enthusiastic - the dampened feel in itself is awesome, but noticeable loss of smoothness (infamous "stiction" one could say, as in umodded TH Warthog's case) during very small and slow inputs is a bit concerning. Will have to fiddle with it more and try other settings tomorrow.

 

 

Interesting I feel like it is easier now for me to make those small rudder movements than before.

However I did replace my main spring with the soft spring Milan sells now as alternative. That may have something to do with it on my end.

 

Don B

EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero|

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On 4/13/2021 at 10:12 PM, Art-J said:

Got mine retrofit kit installed today. Haven't had much time to fly unfortunately, so only did an hour or so of testing. Good impressions so far, though not enthusiastic - the dampened feel in itself is awesome, but noticeable loss of smoothness (infamous "stiction" one could say, as in umodded TH Warthog's case) during very small and slow inputs is a bit concerning. Will have to fiddle with it more and try other settings tomorrow.

 

 

No way. Something is over-tightened. We just need to figure out which bolt.

 

Do you have V1/V2 or V3 pedals and damper mount?

 

If V1/2 then disconnect the forward part of the damper, the one that bolts near the cam. Try moving the pedals with the damper disconnected. If they are binding, you over-tightened the back bolt, the M8x80. If not and they still move freely, then you over-tightened the forward bolt, the M8x40mm.

 

I sold over 200 of my MFG combat pedal kit and damper kit, and there wasn't a single issue to date with centering or binding.

And we straight up copied my mod design for this MFG upgrade, so there shouldn't be any issues either.

 

Let me know and I'll guide you through it.


Edited by hegykc
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V2, also, never touched the front bolt as I didn't need to. I did overtighten the back one somewhat, putting a bit too much load on the tapered bearing. Thought about it and loosened it the next day so that the blocks rotated freely. There was an improvement, but the "stiction" is, and apparently will be there - clearly because of the damper itself (the pedals move smoother without it, and It binds a bit when I slide it by hand). It's not very stiff binding, mind you, it's light but noticeable when one wants to make a very small and slow adjustment (hovering in the chopper, or adjusting for sideslip in German warbirds). Non-modified pedals were smoother.

 

No biggie - the pros still outweigh the cons. Will take some time to get used to.


Edited by Art-J

i7 9700K @ stock speed, single GTX1070, 32 gigs of RAM, TH Warthog, MFG Crosswind, Win10.

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Something still sounds a bit off there but no idea what it might be.

Are you running the main spring that came with the pedals and if so how far do you have the tensioner knob in?

Don B

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It could be the damper. Real brand name ones are like 300$ for motorcycles. This Chinese one is 15$, so they might be B-stock. I had 10 of them, 8 were perfect and 2 of them did have some play in ball joints. Not horrible, but noticeable.

 

Haven't come across a binding one, but it could be.

 

If you're up for it:

 

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Thanks for the tips, guys. I think I'll just tinker with the damper setting and spring tension (I use the stock one BTW). Did some flying today and the whole setup feels "good enough". I'm sure after few days I'll get used to this minor "stiction" and won't even think about it anymore. There are more pressing issues that bother me right now - performance shenanigans caused by 2.7 patch, but that's a different kettle of fish!

i7 9700K @ stock speed, single GTX1070, 32 gigs of RAM, TH Warthog, MFG Crosswind, Win10.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/15/2021 at 10:22 PM, Art-J said:

Thanks for the tips, guys. I think I'll just tinker with the damper setting and spring tension (I use the stock one BTW). Did some flying today and the whole setup feels "good enough". I'm sure after few days I'll get used to this minor "stiction" and won't even think about it anymore. There are more pressing issues that bother me right now - performance shenanigans caused by 2.7 patch, but that's a different kettle of fish!

 

Received mine yesterday, and only tried it a few minutes, but the damper have an odd "dead zone" until it starts dampening.. need to give it a good try tonight, don't know if is the same problem you have.

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Milan or someone who works for him shipped out my damper and a set of replacement toe brake cables yesterday.  @dburne  does the damper add any noise to the pedals?  Aside from a small thud when I use the toe brakes the crosswinds are mostly silent.  

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Sim hardware - VKB MCG Ultimate with 200mm extension, Virpil T-50CM3 Dual throttles.   Blackhog B-explorer (A), TM Cougar MFD's (two), MFG Crosswinds with dampener.   Obutto R3volution gaming pit.  

 

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1 hour ago, Headwarp said:

Milan or someone who works for him shipped out my damper and a set of replacement toe brake cables yesterday.  @dburne  does the damper add any noise to the pedals?  Aside from a small thud when I use the toe brakes the crosswinds are mostly silent.  

 

Not on my end.

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Don B

EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero|

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5 hours ago, S-GERAT said:

 

Received mine yesterday, and only tried it a few minutes, but the damper have an odd "dead zone" until it starts dampening.. need to give it a good try tonight, don't know if is the same problem you have.

 

No, mine starts damping pretty much from the start of the movement. The only deadzone, not related to the damper itself, is caused by a small diameter difference between aft retrofit bushing and the hole in the arm the bushing goes in. There's a bit of clearance between them, and thus a bit of a loose movement in aft damper attachment when pedals go through neutral position. Will have to put something between them to get a tighter fitting.

 

5 hours ago, Headwarp said:

Milan or someone who works for him shipped out my damper and a set of replacement toe brake cables yesterday.  @dburne  does the damper add any noise to the pedals?  Aside from a small thud when I use the toe brakes the crosswinds are mostly silent.  

 

No noise caused by the damper at all, some minor noise might be caused by loose fitting as described above.

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Installed my damper kit last night.. and WOW.   Lol.   I haven't had a chance to use them in a sim yet.. but, the damper is capable of really requiring a bit of a work out to move the pedals.  And then when I lower the damping enough for the pedals to easily return to center I can use one foot, go to full deflection, take my foot off and basically it stops any oscillation that would normally be present without the damper.  Doing so before the damper could be a little noisey, and the pedals would oscillate around center 3-4 times, not that there's any situation where I'd want to do that.   Just an observation. 

 

My pedals are even more silent than they used to be with the damper attached.    Next time I'm in a helo I'm going to detach the spring, and I'm sure that's going to be awesome. 

 

Also, installing this kit gave me a chance to appreciate the genius behind Milan's design and how easy it is to replace damaged parts that he now offers for sale on his site.  These things are built to last.   In 2018 my MCU bricked and Milan sent me a replacement MCU.. easiest install I've ever done in my life.   Damper kit?  Some disassembly and assembly required.. but. so much easier to do than 99% of consumer electronics.     I almost didn't need instructions to install the damping kit on my v2 pedals.  I watched a youtube video to make sure which way to orient the damper.. other than that it was pretty easy to see how everything fit together.  


Edited by Headwarp
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Sim hardware - VKB MCG Ultimate with 200mm extension, Virpil T-50CM3 Dual throttles.   Blackhog B-explorer (A), TM Cougar MFD's (two), MFG Crosswinds with dampener.   Obutto R3volution gaming pit.  

 

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Yeah I am still absolutely loving the damper kit - really transformed already great pedals into something truly special.

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Don B

EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero|

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/27/2021 at 4:49 PM, Art-J said:

... is caused by a small diameter difference between aft retrofit bushing and the hole in the arm the bushing goes in. There's a bit of clearance between them, and thus a bit of a loose movement in aft damper attachment when pedals go through neutral position. Will have to put something between them to get a tighter fitting.

 

 

I recently got dampner for my V1 and was a little surprised by the big "dead zone" which is caused byt exactly what you described. Actually thought more ppl would notice this. Maybe its just a few of us having this problem. Have you found any good solution for this?

 

Dampner seems pretty awesome otherwise.

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4 hours ago, SpeedStick said:

 

I recently got dampner for my V1 and was a little surprised by the big "dead zone" which is caused byt exactly what you described. Actually thought more ppl would notice this. Maybe its just a few of us having this problem. Have you found any good solution for this?

 

Dampner seems pretty awesome otherwise.

 

Did you guys install it correctly? Where the damper sits to the left of the bolt on the front of the pedals?  If you install it the wrong way, where it rests over the center line of the pedals rather than to the left of the front bolt the damper will move up and down. 

 

There is a little bit of play when I change direction with the pedals, but the damper is still moving and it's also still holding them in place when I remove the feet.  

 

 

The main reason I came back to this thread tonight though.. 

 

HOLY CRAP how much easier is it to control the huey when you have a damping system in place to hold your pedals and disconnect the spring so you aren't fighting a return to center mechanism? 

 

I don't think I've ever flown a helo in DCS so smoothly in my life.    If only my new VKB Gunfighter had a force trim mechanism.. i'd love to build a cyclic stick with a force trim but the methods I see people using are way too noisy for my late night escapades.  

 

Anywho.. the damper kit is amazing.   I can't believe how my ability to hover and taxi in a helicopter instantly improved. 

 

 


Edited by Headwarp
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Sim hardware - VKB MCG Ultimate with 200mm extension, Virpil T-50CM3 Dual throttles.   Blackhog B-explorer (A), TM Cougar MFD's (two), MFG Crosswinds with dampener.   Obutto R3volution gaming pit.  

 

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9 hours ago, SpeedStick said:

I recently got dampner for my V1 and was a little surprised by the big "dead zone" which is caused byt exactly what you described. Actually thought more ppl would notice this. Maybe its just a few of us having this problem. Have you found any good solution for this?

 

Dampner seems pretty awesome otherwise.

 

I've put a copper strip between the bushing and the hole, that got rid of the movement on the upper end of the bolt. It's still there on the lower end - I think the socket for the lower bearing might be a bit oversized in my pedal set as well (didn't measure though) resulting in radial clearance instead of closer fit. Tightening the nut could help indirectly by reducing the clearance of the upper, tapered bearing, but I don't want to overload it and mess up the smoothness of its rotation.

 

Maybe I could put something down there between lower bearing and its socket as well but to be honest, I got used to how the pedals work now and I don't think I'll fiddle with them more.

 

5 hours ago, Headwarp said:

Did you guys install it correctly? Where the damper sits to the left of the bolt on the front of the pedals?  If you install it the wrong way, where it rests over the center line of the pedals rather than to the left of the front bolt the damper will move up and down. 

 

Nah, as Milan showed in his video, both methods are correct and depend on user's preference. I did the "left" fixing anyway.

 

Also, if there's a radial clearance in a rotating hinge/pivot itself, the direction of the force applied doesn't matter - the rattle is always going to be there.

i7 9700K @ stock speed, single GTX1070, 32 gigs of RAM, TH Warthog, MFG Crosswind, Win10.

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I am the designer of the damper retrofit kit, and gave the design to Milan. He changed some parts and his video showing the kit installed to the left, at an angle, is wrong.

 

You will get 15% force difference in left/right pedals if you install it at an angle like that. I designed the kit to be installed over the center.

 

In addition to that, his aluminum spacer has greater clearance and that is what's causing free play on some pedals. My 3d printed spacer goes tight onto the bolt and even tighter onto the pedals, so there is no free play. As you can see on my video at 8:20, I have to tap my spacer in:

 

While his aluminum spacer goes very loosely onto the bolt, and onto the pedals. Shown in the video at 3:35 :

 

 

What you can try to remedy the free play in his retrofit kit, is apply some masking tape around the bolt, and around the outside face of aluminum spacer. So that the spacer goes tightly around the bolt, and tightly into the pedals.


Edited by hegykc
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8 hours ago, hegykc said:

I am the designer of the damper retrofit kit, and gave the design to Milan. He changed some parts and his video showing the kit installed to the left, at an angle, is wrong.

 

You will get 15% force difference in left/right pedals if you install it at an angle like that. I designed the kit to be installed over the center.

 

In addition to that, his aluminum spacer has greater clearance and that is what's causing free play on some pedals. My 3d printed spacer goes tight onto the bolt and even tighter onto the pedals, so there is no free play. As you can see on my video at 8:20, I have to tap my spacer in:

 

While his aluminum spacer goes very loosely onto the bolt, and onto the pedals. Shown in the video at 3:35 :

 

 

What you can try to remedy the free play in his retrofit kit, is apply some masking tape around the bolt, and around the outside face of aluminum spacer. So that the spacer goes tightly around the bolt, and tightly into the pedals.

 

 

I didn't flip the damper clamp over.   And now it makes sense.  I'm going to try it over the center now.    Apparently Milan by default has it set up stock to align to the left. 

 

Like I said when I first got it.. it felt so straight forward how it all fit together I didn't watch instructions.    Which now it makes sense why having it angled to the left offered smoother operation.  

 

I typed up something else before this but I'll try this out and see.  

 

*Edit - piece of wax paper from a piece of candy snugged the metal spacer up against the bolt, don't really feel like messing with the back attachment point right now. 

 

Still.. the only two pieces of information that I seemed to miss by not watching the instructions was initial orientation with how it was setup stock... and to reorient the damper clamp if I wanted it over the center.   


Edited by Headwarp
Spoiler

Win 11 Pro, z790 i9 13900k, RTX 4090 , 64GB DDR 6400GB, OS and DCS are on separate pci-e 4.0 drives 

Sim hardware - VKB MCG Ultimate with 200mm extension, Virpil T-50CM3 Dual throttles.   Blackhog B-explorer (A), TM Cougar MFD's (two), MFG Crosswinds with dampener.   Obutto R3volution gaming pit.  

 

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Yeah I have mine mounted to the left per Milan's original instruction, and mine is smooth as can be.

If there is a difference in force between the pedals I sure do not notice it.

Still loving my setup very much.

Don B

EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero|

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