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RAZBAM 2021 Q2 Update


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3 minutes ago, Fri13 said:

 

What is your definition of the "bug"?

 

He said "the worst bugs" .. no need to be sarcastic 🙄

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10 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said:

 

He said "the worst bugs" .. no need to be sarcastic 🙄

I was not sarcastic, it was straight and direct question that what is in his opinion a bug.

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Just now, Fri13 said:

I was not sarcastic, it was straight and direct question that what is in his opinion a bug.

 

Yes, and I was born yesterday ... keep on this path and you risk being ignored.

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44 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said:

 

Yes, and I was born yesterday ... keep on this path and you risk being ignored.

 

Why so hostile? It is not enough that you start to accuse people from being sarcastic without even questioning that You might have totally wrong attitude to input the question, but that you start to threaten that if they do not act as your imagery attitude is that you will add them to your personal ban list, like as it is an honor not to be listed in such?

 

Seems that as You are wrong, that You really were born yesterday...

 

Ps. It was not even question about your opinion (unless you have multiple accounts).

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3 hours ago, Fri13 said:

What is your definition of the "bug"?

  Presumably the same as everyone else's? Not sure what you mean. In particular I had in the mind the one where pushing the wrong button on the Harrier's MFD caused a CTD, which can safely be placed in the ''severe category''. I'm sure ''bugs'' still exist in all RazBam's modules, as is true of all the modules in the game, and always will be, but the worst offenders have been resolved. Some features are still be being added, also, but the most important things have all been addressed. It's ''rivet counting'' at this point, and has been for a while now.

 

2 hours ago, Rudel_chw said:

Yes, and I was born yesterday ... keep on this path and you risk being ignored.

 

  I'm sure he'll lose a lot of sleep 😉 We're not exactly plumbing the depths of Moria here 😃

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7 hours ago, JumpinK said:

When the mudhen was announced back then, I upgraded my pc to be ready for her...
...meanwhile I bought a new pc, had to upgrade it twice to keep it fit for DCS and the mudhen still seems far away from being released... 😄

Same here! 

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6 hours ago, Mars Exulte said:

    I have all of em, and last I flew them they all worked, were combat capable, fun to fly, and look great inside and out and the worst bugs were resolved a loooong time ago. The majority of people do not walk around looking for opportunities to display their righteous indignation months/years after the fact.

 

Well, I know which bugs have been and continue to be ignored for years. I know how the bug reporting continues to be treated on this forum and the way the users continue to be treated on this forum. I am not talking about years ago, my frame of reference is current. And I'm quite certain no other developer has so many modules on the go.

 

Having bought their products, I am also entitled to voice my opinion about those products and the way the company does business. But you will note, I am able to do it without having to dismiss the views of other people with hyperbolic, judgemental, ad hominem nonsense.

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4 hours ago, Mars Exulte said:

 Presumably the same as everyone else's?

 

Presumably?

As everyone's else's?

 

I didn't ask that what do You assume others think what is their definition of a bug.

 

4 hours ago, Mars Exulte said:

Not sure what you mean. 

 

Simple question, what do You understand as "bug" in software product as a PC game or such?

 

Simple question, very easy to answer if You know what it means to You. 

 

4 hours ago, Mars Exulte said:

In particular I had in the mind the one where pushing the wrong button on the Harrier's MFD caused a CTD, which can safely be placed in the ''severe category''.

 

I didn't ask what kind bugs there are in Razbam products, but how do You define "bug". 

 

4 hours ago, Mars Exulte said:

I'm sure ''bugs'' still exist in all RazBam's modules, as is true of all the modules in the game, and always will be, but the worst offenders have been resolved.

 

I didn't ask about other modules.

I didn't ask about is Razbam only one having bugs.

I didn't ask yet what is in your opinion the severity.

 

You say that all "worst offenders" has been solved, yet you talk about a simple MFCD button to cause Crash To Desktop.

 

 Is it a only definition as bug to you?

 

4 hours ago, Mars Exulte said:

Some features are still be being added, also, but the most important things have all been addressed.

 

Again, you are not explaining Your opinion that what is Your definition of a bug...

 

4 hours ago, Mars Exulte said:

It's ''rivet counting'' at this point, and has been for a while now.

 

So You mean that it is completed and only requires polishing, and has been so for over a year (You saying "a while" meaning what is the Harrier patch history timeline as You talk about it)?

 

4 hours ago, Mars Exulte said:

 I'm sure he'll lose a lot of sleep 😉 We're not exactly plumbing the depths of Moria here 

 

Ad Hominems makes you weak, it doesn't make you strong and doesn't help your arguments at all but opposite.

Sarcasm is not wit, and it is hostility toward other person (why I don't use it).

 

If You can't answer direct and straight simple question that how do You understand a "bug" (as used in this thread) then say so.

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I just wish they’d finish and release something...

 

... preferably the South Atlantic map

 

and seeing as the Sea Harrier hasn’t even been mentioned, I’d guess it’s “years” away 😢

 

So let’s have a UK Harrier to go with South Atlantic - finish the AV8B module off by including the GR5/7/9 as has been previously teased

 

South Atlantic looked pretty much ready - but we have no British aircraft 😡

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11 hours ago, wowbagger said:

Well, I know which bugs have been and continue to be ignored for years. I know how the bug reporting continues to be treated on this forum and the way the users continue to be treated on this forum. I am not talking about years ago, my frame of reference is current. And I'm quite certain no other developer has so many modules on the go.

 

Every module has bugs. They always will. Many of those bugs have existed a long time. 99.9% of them are not game breaking except to drama queens. Welcome to electronic gaming, please enjoy your stay.

 

Quote

Having bought their products, I am also entitled to voice my opinion about those products and the way the company does business.

  Yes, you can. And I can disagree with people and call them out  for being dramatic.

 

Quote

But you will note, I am able to do it without having to dismiss the views of other people with hyperbolic, judgemental, ad hominem nonsense.

  Good for you?

 

8 hours ago, Fri13 said:

 

Presumably?

As everyone's else's?

 

I didn't ask that what do You assume others think what is their definition of a bug.

  The definition isn't debatable. There are some free dictionaries online if you really have no idea.

 

Quote

*snip*

  This is an awful lot of senseless prattle.

 

Quote

Ad Hominems makes you weak, it doesn't make you strong and doesn't help your arguments at all but opposite.

  *yawn*

 

Quote

Sarcasm is not wit, and it is hostility toward other person (why I don't use it).

  Right, you prefer passive aggressive whining and circular arguments.

 

Quote

If You can't answer direct and straight simple question that how do You understand a "bug" (as used in this thread) then say so.

Finally got to the end of that mess.

a7d63bace628a8e5d66a3d90f398c1e4.jpg


Edited by Mars Exulte
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13 minutes ago, Mars Exulte said:

 

Every module has bugs. They always will. Many of those bugs have existed a long time. 99.9% of them are not game breaking except to drama queens. Welcome to electronic gaming, please enjoy your stay.

 

  Yes, you can. And I can disagree with people and call them out  for being dramatic.

 

  Good for you?

 

  The definition isn't debatable. There are some free dictionaries online if you really have no idea.

 

  This is an awful lot of senseless prattle.

 

  *yawn*

 

  Right, you prefer passive aggressive whining and circular arguments.

 

Finally got to the end of that mess.

a7d63bace628a8e5d66a3d90f398c1e4.jpg

 


And You keep doing Ad Hominems to avoid answering to a simple question. 

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Fri, name me a piece of software without bugs...

 

Yeah that´s what I though...

 

Can you fly? can you do combat missions on it? is it fun? (for most of us is)

With what seems to be Your definition of "bug", I wonder what are you still paying DCS for..

 

You can state your opinion all right, just don't expect others to accept it at face value...ang you always get ticked off when people don´t agree with your view of the world...

 

 

 

 

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It's ok not to like Fri13 or his opinions. But it's users like him who help Razbam improve their modules by pointing out errors and reporting found bugs. You get a better DCS experience because of the time he is putting into this. So... understandably he gets a bit triggered when someone in a post casually mentions that
"the worst bugs were resolved a loooong time ago", when the reporting section on the forums say otherwise. 


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Yes, I agree. The problem is the extremes.

One thing is to say, Yo! there are still bugs, please see to them. 

Another completely different is: this is rubbish, it its unusable...

 

Is it perfect? NO, of course not. Do they still need lots of work. YES

Is its enjoyable. for me it is.

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Both the M2K and Harrier have massively improved and been turned around. Whilst it wasn't to everyones taste on the speed it happened/is happening, RZBdid a fine job and I've absolutley enjoyed their products and I am genuinely excited what they can do next with everythign they've learned and the talent they acquired!

FWIW The AV8B is my favourite module of them all.

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Is it me or does hovering to land in the Harrier feel more of a skill set than trapping on a carrier? 

Lately, the Harrier has become my favorite as well. Can't wait for the improvements!

DO it or Don't, but don't cry about it. Real men don't cry!

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On 4/2/2021 at 11:44 PM, Baco said:

Fri, name me a piece of software without bugs...

 

Strawman argument.

 

On 4/2/2021 at 11:44 PM, Baco said:

Yeah that´s what I though...

 

Yes... 

 

On 4/2/2021 at 11:44 PM, Baco said:

Can you fly? can you do combat missions on it? is it fun? (for most of us is)

 

Maybe you should get around little more about what is accurately and correctly modeled vs what is just fun.

 

I had today lot of fun to find a small one developer made game for cold war era. Just a three planes and very simple controls and all. But lot of fun.

 

But regardless that it was lots of fun, the MiG-21Bis in it was like 0.1% of what the DCS: MiG-21Bis is about.

 

If fun would be used as measurement for when development can be stopped when simulating reality, then developers would have super easy time to produce new modules in weeks rather than years if so many would be happy that simulation is not even half correctly done.

 

On 4/2/2021 at 11:44 PM, Baco said:

With what seems to be Your definition of "bug", I wonder what are you still paying DCS for..

 

Do You want to answer the question then behalf of Him by knowing His definition?

 

On 4/2/2021 at 11:44 PM, Baco said:

You can state your opinion all right, just don't expect others to accept it at face value...

 

You can make strawman arguments or attack to person, but it doesn't count as valid argument at all.

 

On 4/2/2021 at 11:44 PM, Baco said:

ang you always get ticked off when people don´t agree with your view of the world...

 

Please tell what was now this "view of the world" and "Don't agree with"?

 

Go on.. now as you have made such claims...

 

 

 

On 4/6/2021 at 5:45 PM, Pikey said:

Both the M2K and Harrier have massively improved and been turned around.

 

Turned around in which way?

 

On 4/6/2021 at 5:45 PM, Pikey said:

Whilst it wasn't to everyones taste on the speed it happened/is happening, RZBdid a fine job and I've absolutley enjoyed their products and I am genuinely excited what they can do next with everythign they've learned and the talent they acquired!

 

Do you think that Harrier and M2K are done?

 

On 4/6/2021 at 5:45 PM, Pikey said:

FWIW The AV8B is my favourite module of them all.

 

It is mine as well from all fighters, but maybe there are some of users here who know more about how it should work and behave than it currently does in DCS, and they want it just to be fixed and added the features and produce what was promised before they get very happy with it?

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18 hours ago, Jackjack171 said:

Is it me or does hovering to land in the Harrier feel more of a skill set than trapping on a carrier? 

 

Hovering in Harrier is super easy. It is easier than doing it in KA-50, and a lot easier than any conventional helicopter.

 

The AV-8B is not a F-35B, but close to it stability and control authority. It is fun action and totally the main thing in it.

 

There are some here who has flown real Harrier simulator, so they could say a thing or two about that as well.

 

 

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Fri, you said it. is there any better simulation of modern aircraft for a Cosumer PC (not military)?

 

There you go.

 

Yes its not perfect DCS but is the only thing we have, so for me it works.

 

If it is not enough for you, then learn how to code.

 

I agree we must continue to ask for more, but to say its no good, its rubbish.. its too much and I will not agree.

You better than everybody, ED not god enough for you.. well I am sorry. Its good enough for me.

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7 hours ago, Fri13 said:

 

Hovering in Harrier is super easy. It is easier than doing it in KA-50, and a lot easier than any conventional helicopter.

 

The AV-8B is not a F-35B, but close to it stability and control authority. It is fun action and totally the main thing in it.

 

There are some here who has flown real Harrier simulator, so they could say a thing or two about that as well.

 

 

I love it. It would be double nice if we could get a proper LSO. 

DO it or Don't, but don't cry about it. Real men don't cry!

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10 hours ago, Fri13 said:

It is mine as well from all fighters, but maybe there are some of users here who know more about how it should work and behave than it currently does in DCS, and they want it just to be fixed and added the features and produce what was promised before they get very happy with it?

Yes, and I'm sure we won't see many things done to everyone's satisfaction, I'd like to have seen the AdA version of the M2K remake happen to the Harrier, but at the end of the day, I think the worst part has been the communication disasters rather than the module itself. I'd like all the things, I wont get all the things, but I'm pleased with most of the things, just not the wait and the really odd at times communication.

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9 hours ago, Baco said:

Fri, you said it. is there any better simulation of modern aircraft for a Cosumer PC (not military)?

 

Did I say it? Where?

 

9 hours ago, Baco said:

There you go.

Yes its not perfect DCS but is the only thing we have, so for me it works.

 

Your argument is flawed. You are 100% ready to accept any flaws, problems and clear errors as long "there is no one else to provide it to us". 

How about you would actually start accepting that when a documented system is to be simulated, that starting point is that it will be done properly, instead incorrectedy?

 

Like Razbam made a claim that compass rose in TPOD was "As-Intended" and done. It required time and effort to get them admit that it is not correct, and needs fixing.

So simple thing for anyone to really realize that something is not right, and we should be happy that it is in such condition because there is no better simulation for consumer PC?

 

The Targeting system is wrong and broken. We should be happy that it is so because there is no alternative?

The Navigation system is wrong and broken. We should be happy that it is so because there is no alternative?

The Start-up process is wrong and broken, but hey.... One of the kind! 

.....

 

But who cares, you get 40-50% of the systems properly done while paying for 100%. But who cares, there is no alternative choice so deal with it!

 

 

9 hours ago, Baco said:

If it is not enough for you, then learn how to code.

 

Ah, the fancy argument "If they don't deliver for your money that was promised, do it yourself!"

And your ad hominem goes totally wrong by "learn to code"... 

 

How about you would accept that when someone sells you a product with promise that what features, capabilities it should have and what quality it would be, you would actually be expecting them to deliver that?

 

9 hours ago, Baco said:

I agree we must continue to ask for more, but to say its no good, its rubbish.. its too much and I will not agree.

 

It is no good is pretty valid one when things are broken or clearly made wrong!

If you ask someone to get you a ketchup, it is not fun when they hand you a squeezed tomato, vinegar and tell you mix it with table sugar/salt.

 

9 hours ago, Baco said:

You better than everybody, ED not god enough for you.. well I am sorry. Its good enough for me.

 

Yes, you are good for broken code, for purposely wrongly made product, with broken promises and sale material. And you don't even dare to request them to finish, fix and complete their product, but you are ready to attack person when they ask simple question from someone to explain their way of thinking that would explain their opinion or argument. 

 

What are you doing here? As you are so happy and glad what you already have, why don't you just go elsewhere as you don't want anything fixed, improved or added? As you already have in your opinion the best there is... So why to demand anything more? You have the best already! Don't come to whine that others might want more than your standard, as there are others that at least try to deliver that higher standard than Razbam does.  

 

 

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  • ED Team

Honestly some of you need to step outside and get some fresh air. Constantly getting forum reports for the same people, its tiring. 

 

Read the forum rules, treat each other with respect, or dont post. 

 

Please get back on topic, RAZBAM have posted here a Q2 2021 Update, please discuss it in the good hearted nature it was intended without turning it into petty squabbles.

 

Thanks 

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36 minutes ago, Pikey said:

Yes, and I'm sure we won't see many things done to everyone's satisfaction, I'd like to have seen the AdA version of the M2K remake happen to the Harrier, but at the end of the day, I think the worst part has been the communication disasters rather than the module itself.

 

As I have already stated multiple times earlier, 3D work, texturing and animations is not Razbam problem. Main problem is the communication and their behavior. But that is not the only one. it is as well how they react to bug reports, how they simply claim things are correct when even official documentation says otherwise. There are clear broken things that gets just hidden by their community manager behind "Resolved" status so no one would find the problems.

 

The M2K was in bad shape before AdA jumped in and said "Hi!" to get things fixed for their purposes (we need to be thankful for AdA to do so). Similar thing is with the Harrier, 4th year is going and even basic things don't work properly. All is about programming, about actually doing the systems work as they should. They can hide as much they want in their Discord and pretend that everything is great they are doing, but it doesn't change the facts that their products requires more programmers time than they can handle. 

 

36 minutes ago, Pikey said:

I'd like all the things, I wont get all the things, but I'm pleased with most of the things, just not the wait and the really odd at times communication.

 

Waiting is easy, but communication would need to be really improved. It is easy thing to really do - but they are unwilling to do so.

But when you get systems that are not working correctly, it is requiring fixing and if they don't want to do that, it is problematic.

We already have forum members writing fixes for them! Simple ones even! Years has passed without any action for such minor things. 

And when your product is full of minor problems here and there, it starts to look bad. Even the big ones becomes worse because of the overall experience is not so good as it could be.

 

It is not too much to ask them to fix things they have already implemented but wrong way. It is not too much to ask them to tell what is their source for claims when things are "As-Intended" and still in conflict with the official material or just even common sense.

 

If someone is happy that they can equip Harrier with Mk.82 and they get it dropped and it says *Boom*, it doesn't mean that all systems how to get that bomb on target can be wrong and it being acceptable! There is a very high quality standard that Eagle Dynamics try to maintain, but when some module doesn't meet that one, it is problem for everyone as it weakens the overall quality.

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