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Sr.

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So I found someone else's github that hacked the fixed foveated to work and I do see it working when enabled (you get block 1/16th resolution around the outside edges... However, if NIS is already enabled i'm seeing no meaningful additional gains on my 3090. Maybe 1FPS at best..   Sure it helps if NIS or FSR is disabled (like 5-10FPS over native res/scaling), but frankly the overall picture quality, overall FPS, especially on my stream is much better with the upscalers than the fixed foveated. So I've returned to having it disabled.

My current settings are..

NIS at 0.59

NIS Sharpness at 0

FHoldger Reshade at default (this is where I apply sharpening)
SteamVR SS@200%.

Works great, I see a constant 90FPS in SP or light MP with high settings and ultra clouds  I get 45FPS - 60FPS on Hoggit PGAW/Syria etc. and 45FPS on our mission night events (which have 500+ Statics, 40 players and tons of triggers) while streaming 1080Px30@6000KBPS.

@speed-of-heat I've also got pretty much all of your normal 3090 settings applied too.. for those who care, except what's mentioned above.

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Old Setup: 12900KS @ 5.5 , EVGA FTW3 Hybrid 3090, 64GB of DDR3600C14, 4x 2TB ADATA NVME, HP Reverb G2, Virpil Alpha on WarBRD, Virpil TM3 throttle, Monolith External Amp, Philips X2HR Headphones & TrackIR v5

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So I found someone else's github that hacked the fixed foveated to work and I do see it working when enabled (you get block 1/16th resolution around the outside edges... However, if NIS is already enabled i'm seeing no meaningful additional gains on my 3090. Maybe 1FPS at best..   Sure it helps if NIS or FSR is disabled (like 5-10FPS over native res/scaling), but frankly the overall picture quality, overall FPS, especially on my stream is much better with the upscalers than the fixed foveated. So I've returned to having it disabled.
My current settings are..
NIS at 0.59
NIS Sharpness at 0
FHoldger Reshade at default (this is where I apply sharpening)
SteamVR SS@200%.
Works great, I see a constant 90FPS in SP or light MP with high settings and ultra clouds  I get 45FPS - 60FPS on Hoggit PGAW/Syria etc. and 45FPS on our mission night events (which have 500+ Statics, 40 players and tons of triggers) while streaming 1080Px30@6000KBPS.
Wich HMD You have?

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22 minutes ago, DroptheHammer said:

So I found someone else's github that hacked the fixed foveated to work and I do see it working when enabled (you get block 1/16th resolution around the outside edges... However, if NIS is already enabled i'm seeing no meaningful additional gains on my 3090. Maybe 1FPS at best..   Sure it helps if NIS or FSR is disabled (like 5-10FPS over native res/scaling), but frankly the overall picture quality, overall FPS, especially on my stream is much better with the upscalers than the fixed foveated. So I've returned to having it disabled.

My current settings are..

NIS at 0.59

NIS Sharpness at 0

FHoldger Reshade at default (this is where I apply sharpening)
SteamVR SS@200%.

Works great, I see a constant 90FPS in SP or light MP with high settings and ultra clouds  I get 45FPS - 60FPS on Hoggit PGAW/Syria etc. and 45FPS on our mission night events (which have 500+ Statics, 40 players and tons of triggers) while streaming 1080Px30@6000KBPS.

@speed-of-heat I've also got pretty much all of your normal 3090 settings applied too.. for those who care, except what's mentioned above.

By 200% do you mean Global 100 + Per Game 100 or Global auto & Per Game 200% ?

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22 minutes ago, DroptheHammer said:

So I found someone else's github that hacked the fixed foveated to work and I do see it working when enabled (you get block 1/16th resolution around the outside edges... However, if NIS is already enabled i'm seeing no meaningful additional gains on my 3090. Maybe 1FPS at best..   Sure it helps if NIS or FSR is disabled (like 5-10FPS over native res/scaling), but frankly the overall picture quality, overall FPS, especially on my stream is much better with the upscalers than the fixed foveated. So I've returned to having it disabled.

My current settings are..

NIS at 0.59

NIS Sharpness at 0

FHoldger Reshade at default (this is where I apply sharpening)
SteamVR SS@200%.

Works great, I see a constant 90FPS in SP or light MP with high settings and ultra clouds  I get 45FPS - 60FPS on Hoggit PGAW/Syria etc. and 45FPS on our mission night events (which have 500+ Statics, 40 players and tons of triggers) while streaming 1080Px30@6000KBPS.

@speed-of-heat I've also got pretty much all of your normal 3090 settings applied too.. for those who care, except what's mentioned above.

VR Performance shaders replaces Fholdgers, so im not sure what you are doing.  I havent tested that configuration combination too many things to do.

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3 hours ago, Sr. said:

By 200% do you mean Global 100 + Per Game 100 or Global auto & Per Game 200% ?

As long as total pixels are the it doesn't matter if you use the global or per-game slider, the pixels rendered are the same. But for reference I have global set to 100% (default) and the DCS Per Game @ 200%.

3 hours ago, speed-of-heat said:

VR Performance shaders replaces Fholdgers, so im not sure what you are doing.  I havent tested that configuration combination too many things to do.

These are 2 different Git Repos

https://github.com/fholger/vrperfkit

and

https://github.com/fholger/reshade

The VRPerfKit I have configured to use the above settings, but under the NIS Sharpening in VRPerfKit I have it set to 0, mainly because using NIS sharpening causes colors, especially bright yellows and greens to look weak and sickly.  Instead, I apply the sharpening pass in reshade (using FHolger/Reshade), which gives that nice crisp look for a similar frame time and does not degrade the colors.  To be fair, FHolder/Reshade and "Sharper Eye Reshade" both work for this, but I just wanted to unify all my mods under FHolder to ensure their compatibility.

3 hours ago, Hunter Joker said:

Wich HMD You have?

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Reverb G2


Edited by DroptheHammer
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Old Setup: 12900KS @ 5.5 , EVGA FTW3 Hybrid 3090, 64GB of DDR3600C14, 4x 2TB ADATA NVME, HP Reverb G2, Virpil Alpha on WarBRD, Virpil TM3 throttle, Monolith External Amp, Philips X2HR Headphones & TrackIR v5

Old Old Setup: 9900KS @ 5.2, EVGA FTW3 3090. 32GB of DDR3866, 3x 1TB ADATA NVME

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3 hours ago, DroptheHammer said:

As long as total pixels are the it doesn't matter if you use the global or per-game slider, the pixels rendered are the same. But for reference I have global set to 100% (default) and the DCS Per Game @ 200%.

These are 2 different Git Repos

https://github.com/fholger/vrperfkit

and

https://github.com/fholger/reshade

The VRPerfKit I have configured to use the above settings, but under the NIS Sharpening in VRPerfKit I have it set to 0, mainly because using NIS sharpening causes colors, especially bright yellows and greens to look weak and sickly.  Instead, I apply the sharpening pass in reshade (using FHolger/Reshade), which gives that nice crisp look for a similar frame time and does not degrade the colors.  To be fair, FHolder/Reshade and "Sharper Eye Reshade" both work for this, but I just wanted to unify all my mods under FHolder to ensure their compatibility.

Reverb G2

 

What is your in game PD set at?

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On 2/8/2022 at 7:15 PM, Sr. said:

What is your in game PD set at?

1.0.  I never use the ingame settings to change PD because they are too coarse and with the same equivalent PD...


Edited by DroptheHammer

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Old Setup: 12900KS @ 5.5 , EVGA FTW3 Hybrid 3090, 64GB of DDR3600C14, 4x 2TB ADATA NVME, HP Reverb G2, Virpil Alpha on WarBRD, Virpil TM3 throttle, Monolith External Amp, Philips X2HR Headphones & TrackIR v5

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First of all, thanks to everyone for their effort to improve the VR experience, devs and commenters alike!

Frankly, I'm a bit lost, though working in IT I know about the mess called github and forks of forks of forks.
Problem is, most information is ages old (like July 2021) and I want to make sure not to combine legacy tools / shaders / FSR techniques.

So far I'm using FSR, but I can't use MSAA, kills FPS. Flying Helos currently, meaning low, means FPS are very important
in order not to crash every five minutes. Fixed wing fast movers are mostly fine above 300 feet.

Here's my gameplan:
a)   Use a mod manager
b)   Try a bare metal difference between FSR and vrperfkit
c)   Do I really need to compile reshade myself or does anybody have a compiled package at hand for a quick tryout?

For reference:
3700X @ 4.2 GHz all cores
64 GB @ 3200 MHz
1 TB SSD
6700XT stable at max OC
Reverb G2

I'm at a point where I'm willing to pay someone to get me up to speed regarding the latest and greatest, and their implications.
Thanks in advance guys! And yes, I've been reading at least 15 pages this thread alone and countless reddit posts. But, the
more I read the more contradicting the suggestions become sometimes.


Edited by Pocket Kings
typo
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21 hours ago, Pocket Kings said:

Problem is, most information is ages old (like July 2021)

I would hardly call that "ages old". If you're really familiar with GitHub, you'll know that there is a clear date on everything that is uploaded so you know how recent the last update was on any given project. The instructions are pretty clear on the GitHub pages for most of this stuff as to how to get it installed, so I honestly don't understand the confusion.

 

21 hours ago, Pocket Kings said:

Do I really need to compile reshade myself or does anybody have a compiled package at hand for a quick tryout?

No you don't, and I have no idea where you got the idea that you do. Reshade is very quick and easy to install.

 

21 hours ago, Pocket Kings said:

I'm at a point where I'm willing to pay someone to get me up to speed regarding the latest and greatest, and their implications.

That's a mighty fine way to get yourself scammed out of cash by some idiot looking for easy money. I realise that there are an abundance of people out there these days with more money than sense, but please do yourself a favour... try using your sense rather than attempting to solve your issues with cash. Over time, it'll make you a smarter person that is more capable of working things out yourself, rather than relying on complete strangers.

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48 minutes ago, Goffik said:

I would hardly call that "ages old". If you're really familiar with GitHub, you'll know that there is a clear date on everything that is uploaded so you know how recent the last update was on any given project. The instructions are pretty clear on the GitHub pages for most of this stuff as to how to get it installed, so I honestly don't understand the confusion.

Thank you for your reply and effort.

However, I've read many times now that a mod broke because of a DCS Open Beta Update. By "breaking" I mean everything from performance degradation to crashes and something in between, like artifacts and so forth. And I stand by the statement that information on shaders dated July 2021 can very well be outdated. Given the fact that we have three major contenders (2x fholger and 1x 3Dmigoto if I'm not mistaken), many point releases within months together with a few DCS point releases + driver updates, I'm not afraid to admit that this environment confuses me. If you're not confused and know the inner workings of the "upscaling technology", great for you, share your knowledge, please.

And yes, I'm familiar with github and git in general! My oldest internal git repos go back to Debian 4 days. That's the timeframe when git was the hot new <profanity> in dev ops.

 

48 minutes ago, Goffik said:

No you don't, and I have no idea where you got the idea that you do. Reshade is very quick and easy to install.

Problem was, I was using an Adblocker and opt-out tools (like I do on ebay and those crowded crap pages) that changed the appearance. Basically, I was missing menus and buttons, my fault clearly!

 

48 minutes ago, Goffik said:

That's a mighty fine way to get yourself scammed out of cash by some idiot looking for easy money. I realise that there are an abundance of people out there these days with more money than sense, but please do yourself a favour... try using your sense rather than attempting to solve your issues with cash. Over time, it'll make you a smarter person that is more capable of working things out yourself, rather than relying on complete strangers.

Thanks for the wise words. Here's my reply: Do you really read open source code? Being a programmer I'm working with open source code on a daily basis and I can tell you: Ultimately any complex software relies on complete strangers and the assumption that they did a fine and thorough job. Why do you think everything from small programs to big ones (like OS'es) have more bugs than functions? Anyhow, I have no intention of derailing this thread further, so I'll stay quiet regarding this offtopic.

What I will say: I know the hourly rate I charge. From experience I can estimate how many hours I'd expect to spend to get "up to speed". As far as I understand upscaling, shaders and sharpeners and their interactions, it's non trivial. And honestly, I can think of better ways of spending the little spare time I have currently than dealing with software bugs and outdated paradigms... like I did all day just minutes before hand.

You're right about the self-solving attitude, I fully support that notion. But it's just not possible to understand everything regarding every software problem there is.

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It does seem far more complex than it is, mainly due to the fact that the majority of the threads are long and sometimes polluted (not with intent, just the way these conversations evolve). However, I would thoroughly recommand @speed-of-heat post here if you haven't already read it, read his OP that he regularly updates as things change.

There is no need to compile anything unless that's your thing. You can simply utilise the dkxgi.dll included in the mod as is.  In terms of what I am using currently, I am more than happy with the performance and visual acuity I get with the following (shimmering aside, but that isn't getting fixed anytime soon, at least until the render engine is rewritten for VR and the aliasing issues resolved):

Vrperfkit (if you want to use this in conjunction with Reshade you need to rename a dll as they both use dxgi.dll so rename one of them to d3d11.dll)

Taz DCS VR Shaders mod for 2.7.9.17830

Reshade 5.0

I use a bunch of others, but these are the main GFX and performance affecting ones. The complete list is below.

DCS-MODS-Feb022022.PNG


Edited by zildac
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Thank you @zildac for the constructive and helpful reply. The hint about renaming the DLL is both obvious and "hidden in plain sight" at the same time. That's the kind of thing you forget when reading through 25 pages (and countless more on hoggit and the likes).

One follow up question comes to mind: By "shimmering", do you mean

a)   the lack of anti-aliasing,

b)   the fact that low-grade AA (like MSAA 2x) isn't cutting it,

c)   shimmering as a result of upscaling and sharpening the image,

d)   cloud shimmering (which is AWFUL) that can only be mitigated by cranking up super sampling to insane values?

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2 minutes ago, zildac said:

It does seem far more complex than it is, mainly due to the fact that the majority of the threads are long and sometimes polluted (not with intent, just the way these conversations evolve). However, I would thoroughly recommand @speed-of-heat post here if you haven't already read it, read his OP that he regularly updates as things change.

There is no need to compile anything unless that's your thing. You can simply utilise the dkxgi.dll included in the mod as is.  In terms of what I am using currently, I am more than happy with the performance and visual acuity I get with the following (shimmering aside, but that isn't getting fixed anytime soon, at least until the render engine is rewritten for VR and the aliasing issues resolved):

Vrperfkit (if you want to use this in conjunction with Reshade you need to rename a dll as they both use dxgi.gll so rename one of them to d3d11.dll)

Taz DCS VR Shaders mod for 2.7.9.17830

Reshade 5.0

I use a bunch of others but these are the main GFX and performance affecting ones. The complete list is below.

 

+1 on the @speed-of-heat thread recommendation !

Also note that although Vrperfkit also includes Fixed Foveated Rendering, which will save you another 0.5 - 1.0 ms frametime, his functionality doesn't work in DCS.

You need this fixed version which is forked from FHolgar's

https://github.com/cedriclmenard/vrperfkit/releases/tag/v0.2.2-dcs-ffr

 

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23 minutes ago, Pocket Kings said:

Thank you @zildac for the constructive and helpful reply. The hint about renaming the DLL is both obvious and "hidden in plain sight" at the same time. That's the kind of thing you forget when reading through 25 pages (and countless more on hoggit and the likes).

One follow up question comes to mind: By "shimmering", do you mean

a)   the lack of anti-aliasing,

b)   the fact that low-grade AA (like MSAA 2x) isn't cutting it,

c)   shimmering as a result of upscaling and sharpening the image,

d)   cloud shimmering (which is AWFUL) that can only be mitigated by cranking up super sampling to insane values?

You're welcome. In regard to "shimmering" A and B for me personally. I see no noticeable additional shimmer as a result of upscaling unless you go crazy with the "sharpening" in either Reshade or Vrperfkit. MSAA x4 helps a lot but kills frame time even on a good system. As for D well, no comment, that's in the same bag as "when the rendering engine is fixed for aliasing in VR" you can reduce it by setting clouds to High or Ultra, but it's still present. I’ve grown used to it, but it's far from acceptable, in VR at least. And frankly in comparison to the clouds doing a pogo in the initial release, they're a 100% better than they were. Not bitching, just stating blindingly obvious facts. An as an aside, ignore all the posts that say AA settings in NVCPL affect VR, I’ve never ever see any difference, and based on the fact it's a deferred rendering engine I wouldn't expect to.


Edited by zildac

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8 minutes ago, zildac said:

An as an aside, ignore all the posts that say AA settings in NVCPL affect VR, I’ve never ever see any difference, and based on the fact it's a deferred rendering engine I wouldn't expect to.

 

Agreed, I was using AMD's Radeon Graphics Central (or how the heck it's called these days by marketing gurus) Adaptive Multi-Sampling 4xEQ (wooooooooohoooooooooo fancy stuff, must be awesome!!!), but you're spot on. I neither saw a visual difference, nor a measurable one in fpsVR.

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The following post is kind of offtopic, not related to the technical discussion, fell free to skip it. But maybe someone at ED reads it and hopefully it's good food for thought.

I believe there are three business decisions I'd tackle immediately if I were part of ED's management:

1.   Open Source part of the code. Why not profit from the very dedicated mod community? Open up the ground for programmers like fholger, why not? MS and other steal anyway, it's not that hard decompiling an exe, no rocket science. It's tedious, yes, but far from impossible.

2.   Hire people to scan the forum daily for interesting ideas, suggestions and so on. I mean people being actively involved in the discussion. I, more often than not, read something along the lines of: "Acknowledged" and that's it. Nothings' really been incorporated into the beta releases.

3.   Make damn sure that the VR customers are satisfied. It's easy math: Someone who spends between 3 and 5 grand on a potent VR gaming rig is likely, maybe, I'm just guessing here ;-), able to spend more on planes, maps, tech packs and so on. Why on earth do I get the impression, prior to even stepping onto the VR bandwagon myself, that VR people have to deal with the most atrocious bugs in the whole sim? At least from the visual standpoint.

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1 hour ago, Pocket Kings said:

@zildac May I ask how you installed Barthek's Caucasus Mod 2021 together with Taz1004 Better Trees Mod? Which goes first and which overwrites the first one?

From my time using Barthek's, I would trigger Taz trees after.

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The following post is kind of offtopic, not related to the technical discussion, fell free to skip it. But maybe someone at ED reads it and hopefully it's good food for thought.
I believe there are three business decisions I'd tackle immediately if I were part of ED's management:
1.   Open Source part of the code. Why not profit from the very dedicated mod community? Open up the ground for programmers like fholger, why not? MS and other steal anyway, it's not that hard decompiling an exe, no rocket science. It's tedious, yes, but far from impossible.
2.   Hire people to scan the forum daily for interesting ideas, suggestions and so on. I mean people being actively involved in the discussion. I, more often than not, read something along the lines of: "Acknowledged" and that's it. Nothings' really been incorporated into the beta releases.
3.   Make damn sure that the VR customers are satisfied. It's easy math: Someone who spends between 3 and 5 grand on a potent VR gaming rig is likely, maybe, I'm just guessing here ;-), able to spend more on planes, maps, tech packs and so on. Why on earth do I get the impression, prior to even stepping onto the VR bandwagon myself, that VR people have to deal with the most atrocious bugs in the whole sim? At least from the visual standpoint.
For example I play VR, unsatisfied even with 3090 OC, 5800X and 128Gb and I own all modules and map apart hely... I'm happy to pay for something that work...

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12 hours ago, Pocket Kings said:

The following post is kind of offtopic, not related to the technical discussion, fell free to skip it. But maybe someone at ED reads it and hopefully it's good food for thought.

I believe there are three business decisions I'd tackle immediately if I were part of ED's management:

1.   Open Source part of the code. Why not profit from the very dedicated mod community? Open up the ground for programmers like fholger, why not? MS and other steal anyway, it's not that hard decompiling an exe, no rocket science. It's tedious, yes, but far from impossible.

2.   Hire people to scan the forum daily for interesting ideas, suggestions and so on. I mean people being actively involved in the discussion. I, more often than not, read something along the lines of: "Acknowledged" and that's it. Nothings' really been incorporated into the beta releases.

3.   Make damn sure that the VR customers are satisfied. It's easy math: Someone who spends between 3 and 5 grand on a potent VR gaming rig is likely, maybe, I'm just guessing here ;-), able to spend more on planes, maps, tech packs and so on. Why on earth do I get the impression, prior to even stepping onto the VR bandwagon myself, that VR people have to deal with the most atrocious bugs in the whole sim? At least from the visual standpoint.

I have contemplated raising Open/Out sourcing as a Wish List item to clear the backlog that ED do not have time for.

I'm sure there are a boat load of old hackers(tm) that are frustrated enough to dedicate more than a few free hours.

 

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18 hours ago, Pocket Kings said:

3.   Make damn sure that the VR customers are satisfied. It's easy math: Someone who spends between 3 and 5 grand on a potent VR gaming rig is likely, maybe, I'm just guessing here ;-), able to spend more on planes, maps, tech packs and so on. Why on earth do I get the impression, prior to even stepping onto the VR bandwagon myself, that VR people have to deal with the most atrocious bugs in the whole sim? At least from the visual standpoint.

That's not necessarily true, he may have less money to spend on modules, or acquired that gaming rig for other purposes than DCS.

The key argument is that ALL of us will fly in VR in a few years. The 2D monitors will become the niche market as far as 3D gaming is concerned.

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15 minutes ago, winghunter said:

That's not necessarily true, he may have less money to spend on modules, or acquired that gaming rig for other purposes than DCS.

The key argument is that ALL of us will fly in VR in a few years. The 2D monitors will become the niche market as far as 3D gaming is concerned.

I can give you my example: bought my first VR headset in +-2017 and i have never flown in 2D since. 

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22 hours ago, ShaunX said:

+1 on the @speed-of-heat thread recommendation !

Also note that although Vrperfkit also includes Fixed Foveated Rendering, which will save you another 0.5 - 1.0 ms frametime, his functionality doesn't work in DCS.

You need this fixed version which is forked from FHolgar's

https://github.com/cedriclmenard/vrperfkit/releases/tag/v0.2.2-dcs-ffr

 

Am I supposed to rename the dll to d3d11 to have this not conflict with the reshade dll?  I renamed it and it crashes DCS for me 😕

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