Me-262 or Hellcat

[TotenDead]

If you were to choose between Me-262 and Hellcat which one would you buy? Assuming that you can get only one of them

[TheGuardian]

That is a tough one. Would love to have them both but Hellcat if I gotta choose.

[rkk01]

 Very tough choice

 

... especially as we are getting the Corsair...

 

to choose one rather than both - Schwalbe.  Icon versus workhorse

[Berserk]

I may chose Me-262 due to it's historical context and SP missions and campaigns. In Me-262 you fight against Allies and Soviets overhelming numerical advantage, attacking you everywhere from takeoff to landing and even on the ground. All you can count on is new jet technology and the last veteran pilot's skill.

When in Hellcat you are the one having numerical and technological advantage like great mariana turkey shoot.

Every single operable Me-262 is worth it's weight in gold when in Hellcat you can crash during takeoff and it's gonna change nothing, nobody notice.

Me-262 already has it's proper historical opposition like Mustang, Thunderbolt, Flying Fortress, Spitfire, Mosquito when Hellcat would fly in a void at this moment.

Edited April 2, 2021 by Berserk

[EL CARIBE]

Hellcat.. or better yet, Corsair, but I think that's already being worked on. Bring on the Pacific theater!

[Mars Exulte]

262 is being made by ED around here somewhere. It's been a slow developing project for years. Last I heard, I think they said they had finally.collected all the documents they needed to actually start building it, but that was a year or so ago. Afaik Hellcat hasn't been mentioned by anybody yet, but we've got the P-47 and F-4U, so the Hellcat should be a comparatively easy addition. They all three use the same engine, so there's at least two devs now with a working twin wasp radial they can use as a baseline. Be a lot of work still as the planes are still very different, but at least some of the engine code should be reusable, I'd think.

Edited March 31, 2021 by Mars Exulte

[Xilon_x]

DCS is a simulator that started from the beginning with the introduction of modern jets. WWII planes are optional for me.

M-262 is a priority because it represents the first jet of the Second World War and is very important, it has a technology superior to the American one.

[Mars Exulte]

1 hour ago, Xilon_x said:

M-262 is a priority because it represents the first jet of the Second World War and is very important, it has a technology superior to the American one.

  It was the first deployed to combat to a significant extent, but was hardly as remarkable as it is often exalted as, especially considering that whole ''bursting into flames'' thing. The Meteor started flying in '43 if I remember right, but was not deployed to combat zones. The P-80 was delayed to late war after an accident but was capable enough to serve for another 10 years or so, the 262's ''superiority'' is debatable at best (the wing sweep was for CoG, and had no transonic value). The Russians were bringing up the rear, but had their own fighters around the same time.

 

  In fact, ALL the major powers had long running jet fighter programs, and began deploying them within just a couple years of each other all around the same time. They weren't all reliant on magic Nazi uberwaffenwundardoctors to come out of the stone age @@

Edited March 31, 2021 by Mars Exulte

[Jester986]

Definitely the Hellcat. Its been a long time since we had a sim in the Pacific and nothing to DCS quality. After flying the 262 in the "other" sim it leaves me unimpressed. And a DCS fidelity one would only have more issues. I see the appeal, but lets go all in on the Pacific.

 

Edited March 31, 2021 by Jester986

[Jef Costello]

Of course the Cat!

This was the most victorious warbird of the Pacific war, may be less "glamorous" than its stable mate the Corsair but a true legend too!

[SmirkingGerbil]

ME 262 was why I became an early backer, and kickstarter contributor. If the Hellcat had been offered then, I would still pick the ME 262.

The ME 262 was a "desperation" measure, to try and stall the allied bombers for a bit longer. It was manufactured under blistering bombing campaigns, and still managed to be the only jet fighter of that era to see any appreciable combat, its peers notwithstanding technically or otherwise. Allied bombers, and fighters went up against this aircraft.

Albert Speer actually increased production during the height of the Allied bombing, the ME 262 is coupled to that to try and buy more time. Yes the Hellcat and the Pacific are iconic in their own right, but WWII started as a kickstarter/go-fundme effort and was European centric. I get that Pacific is a big deal, and yes I would enjoy it, and the Hellcat. But outside of the P-38J (as a day one purchase), the ME 262 would fit into campaigns designed around last ditch efforts to thwart massive bombing campaigns, and dog fights with allied fighters.

However, if the ME 262 was shelved, I would pick something that ED offered, and move on. Just hope that the ME 262 gets the kind of ED/TFC engineering treatment it deserves, and sees the light of day in the ED/TFC stable. FWIW.

[SmirkingGerbil]

1 hour ago, Mars Exulte said:

  It was the first deployed to combat to a significant extent, but was hardly as remarkable as it is often exalted as, especially considering that whole ''bursting into flames'' thing. The Meteor started flying in '43 if I remember right, but was not deployed to combat zones. The P-80 was delayed to late war after an accident but was capable enough to serve for another 10 years or so, the 262's ''superiority'' is debatable at best (the wing sweep was for CoG, and had no transonic value). The Russians were bringing up the rear, but had their own fighters around the same time.

 

  In fact, ALL the major powers had long running jet fighter programs, and began deploying them within just a couple years of each other all around the same time. They weren't all reliant on magic Nazi uberwaffenwundardoctors to come out of the stone age @@

 

That bursting into flames thing had more to do with the materials they had to substitute due to lack of materials, thus my earlier comments about it being a "desperation" machine, in the final act of the war. Which makes it all the more significant, since the turbine blades were HSS alloys or some other mix vs. Tungsten and other exotics. Again, a nod to Albert Speer and his efforts to keep armaments, ammo, and other production going during the height of the bombing by the Allies.

No, I am not rooting for Nazi Germany, but the fact that Nazi engineers, got the ME 262 in the air, fighting, with substandard materials just adds to the mystique . . . which in my mind makes it more desirable than say the Hellcat which enjoyed the benefits of American manufacturing at its most resplendent and mighty when dedicated to the war effort and the defeat of the Nazi's and Imperial Japan. IMHO.

[Mars Exulte]

No, that's cool. It is an extremely interesting and historic aircraft, and yes they worked wonders getting it into production at all and keeping as many of them going as long as they did. I just eye roll hard when people start raving about ''DER SUPER GERMAN TECHNOLOGY''

 

  The V-2 was pretty damn impressive, and afaik they were the first to start messing with supersonic stuff on any significant level, but a lot of the ''legends'' about German technology are thinly veiled excuses for how they managed to spank the French and Soviets so hard. ''I mean sure, we were poorly organised, using outdated tactics, and only had radios for every 1,000th man, but the real tipping point was all that radical new technology they had, like Panzer IIs! We just didn't see 'em coming! Panzers, man, just say the word. Panzer. That's how far ahead they were, practically lasers. And don't get me started on their coal powered trucks that could ALSO burn wood!''

[Phantom88]

Well....If you listen to the latest "AirCombat Sim Podcast" You'll get a very good indicator of what we're likely to get......

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/air-combat-sim-podcast-episode-18-interview-nineline/id1498316156?i=1000514928980

 

I really couldn't go wrong with either....but seeing The nxt DCS Map we be based in Pacific I think The HellCat would be a welcomed addition o The Sim....also Magnitude 3LLC has been working on a F4U-D and a Essex Class Carrier

https://forums.eagle.ru/forum/781-f4u-1d/

I was one of The Original DCS WWII Kickstarter backers and I elected The Me 262 as one of my pledges....but if ED decided they wanted to switch that to a F6F I wouldn't have any problem with it.....A HellCat done to DCS Professional  Standards would be a Dream Come True for Me.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 31, 2021 by Phantom88

[sirrah]

Voted for Hellcat

 

(mainly because of a similarly called simulator/game from my childhood, that I used to play a lot on my dad's Macintosh computer back in 1991 )

 

Also... what a beauty 

[Art-J]

Tough call. I personally couldn't care less about buying and flying the Schwalbe, didn't even bother to learn how to start it up and fly in the other sim. Being a PTO enthusiast I'm obliged to vote for Hellcat anyway I guess .

 

I know, however, how desperately we need to fill current Normandy & Channel maps with more-or-less relevant flyable and non-flyable content. I agree 262 fits the bill better.

[bies]

When it comes to technological advances Mars is right.

 

Germany/III Reich had really significant advantage with chemical warfare (luckily had not been used) - both in terms of quality and quantity, rocket science - German scientists created big part of both US and USSR rocket programs, submarines - nobody had anything like Type XXI and slightly modified Type XXI became a backbone of both USSR and US submarine fleet for the next decade after WW2.

 

When it comes to jet fighters though US and UK were very close.

[SmirkingGerbil]

2 hours ago, Mars Exulte said:

No, that's cool. It is an extremely interesting and historic aircraft, and yes they worked wonders getting it into production at all and keeping as many of them going as long as they did. I just eye roll hard when people start raving about ''DER SUPER GERMAN TECHNOLOGY''

 

  The V-2 was pretty damn impressive, and afaik they were the first to start messing with supersonic stuff on any significant level, but a lot of the ''legends'' about German technology are thinly veiled excuses for how they managed to spank the French and Soviets so hard. ''I mean sure, we were poorly organised, using outdated tactics, and only had radios for every 1,000th man, but the real tipping point was all that radical new technology they had, like Panzer IIs! We just didn't see 'em coming! Panzers, man, just say the word. Panzer. That's how far ahead they were, practically lasers. And don't get me started on their coal powered trucks that could ALSO burn wood!''

Point well made. There were some seriously incredible feats of engineering to come out of WWII, from many nations. Some of the Nazi ones were in a class all their own . . . but, like you point out, there was a lot of "mythology" mixed in with the actual accomplishments. Hard sometimes to engage in serious historical discussions about the Nazi War machine, when the mythology starts getting thrown around.

[Evoman]

I like the ME262 but the Hellcat is my all time favorite warbird since I flew them in War thunder. Now I even own an RC model of a Hellcat because I love that much. I just enjoy its flight envelope for some reason.

I have this same model of the Hellcat.

 

 

Edited March 31, 2021 by Evoman

[rkk01]

No need for mythologising for either side...

 

F6F was undoubtedly a good fighter.  Was it a great fighter????  Possibly - but history denies us the opportunity to know for sure.

Like the P51, a combination of unparalleled manufacturing scale, pilot training unrestrained by war torn skies or fuel shortages, evolved numbers based tactics and an enemy degraded by the opposite effects allowed both Hellcat and Mustang to “clear the skies”.

 

who knows how they would have fared against balanced or superior opposition as the Spit Ia or 109E were tasked??? 
 

One thing IS sure though...

 

The Me 262 rendered the Hellcat obsolete, even at the time of its greatest success

 

[Katj]

I'd much rather have the Wildcat and Zero than the Hellcat and ???

The Me262 is likely to be too good a performer to be really interesting. The problems it faced in real life will be hard to replicate in the sim.

Also, I think it's wrong to attribute engineering feats to political ideologies.

[Lurker]

I voted for the Me262. Not that I would really buy it, it's just more fitting with what we have in DCS WW2 today. What would you do in the Hellcat? There is no theatre of operations for it, no AI planes (or player controlled modules) for it to fight against. Is there even a WWII carrier for it to land and operate from? 

 

I mean yeah sure, if it had all of those things, then the Hellcat would probably be my choice as well. But since it doesn't it's just gonna be a hangar queen. A lot of the World War 2 stuff is really like an afterthought in DCS World. It's getting better, and the modules are amazing from a flight and system modeling perspective, but you really need to make an effort to find a proper "game" in all of that. 

Edited April 1, 2021 by Lurker

[IkarusC42B Pilot]

Me262 as accurate as possible

Edited April 1, 2021 by IkarusC42B Pilot

[rkk01]

Me 262 vs it’s descendants would be interesting...

262 vs F86 over France...

 

262 + F86 vs Mig 15 over “Korea”

 

[r24]

Between Me-262 and Hellcat I would pick the Me-262.

It would be out of the ordinary for DCS WW2 and I think it would be very cool