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Ergonomic issue with the ORION throttle - Opposite angle. Winwing, any feedback ?


FZG_Immel

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yes, but honestly I would have a hard time to judge from that.

 

but from what I remember sitting in a real hornet (NOT FLYING though) the blueprint posted earlier is correct

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10 minutes ago, FZG_Immel said:

 

 

I think i proved it with enough pics. I

 

 

 

I think you're making a mountain out of a mole hill but you do you. 

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It's a fair point to raise, the throttles would be far more comfortable in the correct alignment, I'm interested to know why WW would model it differently.

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2 hours ago, Harlikwin said:

 

I think you're making a mountain out of a mole hill but you do you. 

 

What is the goal of your/this post ? 

 

Do you dispute that the angle is backward ? I dont think so.

 

Do you dispute that the correct angle in the real hornet has ergonomic purposes ? I don't think so.

 

Do you dispute the fact that the angle on the Orion being backward compared to the real hornet might then logically cause ergonomic issue to some people ? why would you ?

 

I mean. these are supposed to be some kind of Hornet HOTAS replicas. the fact that they got such an angle backward seems a pretty big deal to me (because it felt wrong in my hand from the get go). I am only trying to make some kind of fix happen. 


Edited by FZG_Immel
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Cuz it's a non issue for me. Hasn't been since I bought my taurus. 

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Clearly, the angle of the WinWing product is incorrect. The stick grip is also slightly inaccurate in scaling/shape. But I have my Taurus throttle positioned very realistically and would have never noticed the angle problem if this post had not pointed it out. I am sensitive to wrist angle. I work on computers most of the time at work and then come home and play on them. I have to position my keyboard and mouse to prevent repetitive motion / carpal tunnel injuries. The Taurus does not bother my wrist at all. I can see the angle my wrist has to contort to rest on both grips, but my hand rests naturally on both grips without feeling uncomfortable.

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5 hours ago, streakeagle said:

But I have my Taurus throttle positioned very realistically and would have never noticed the angle problem if this post had not pointed it out.

Good to read this.

Ordered an Orion; beside there are evidence the promlem exist, i hope isn't so bad hands on.

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FFD95B39-CFA1-446E-A103-9416FF2EB664.jpeg

Ergonomic-wise, it might not feel as good as the real throttle (no idea since I’ve never touched a real one) but to me;

 

1. The Taurus is still the best home device out there in terms of usability, flexibility and comfort (can’t comment on the Orion since I don’t own one yet).

 

2. Since the grip is detachable and splitted, this issue can be fixed by Winwing making a new rev2 grip the has the correct back angle. Or you can 3D print a plastic snap-on for the grip to change the ergonomics. 


Edited by Supmua
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Thanks for your picture Supmua. it confirms that the Super Taurus also has the opposite angle, though maybe slightly less acute than the Orion (see pics)

 

stauru10.jpg

 

orionv10.jpg

 

I am very glad that most users do not 'feel' it wrong as I did, its a very good news. I guess our bodies arent all the same (who knew 🙂 ? )  I hope Winwing takes that in consideration for a future product, or even with arms that twist a little and fix this. 


Edited by FZG_Immel
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  • FZG_Immel changed the title to Ergonomic issue with the ORION throttle - Opposite angle. Winwing, any feedback ?
4 hours ago, Supmua said:

FFD95B39-CFA1-446E-A103-9416FF2EB664.jpegErgonomic-wise, it might not feel as good as the real throttle (no idea since I’ve never touched a real one) but to me;

 

1. The Taurus is still the best home device out there in terms of usability, flexibility and comfort (can’t comment on the Orion since I don’t own one yet).

 

2. Since the grip is detachable and splitted, this issue can be fixed by Winwing making a new rev2 grip the has the correct back angle. Or you can 3D print a plastic snap-on for the grip to change the ergonomics. 

 

Thanks for your post, and that picture.  That doesn't look as extreme as the drawing makes it.  I feel better about it, and will try to order one come April 15th.  If I notice any ergonomic problem once I receive it, I'll report back here.

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The ergonomic (Taurus) has never felt odd to me, but again I don't typically grab the whole grips when I play so I never notice this.  When I play I barely operate the throttle with full gripping, I just touch the top part of the grips with my palm and push back and force gently--not a fan of high resistance on the throttle movement.

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4 hours ago, derociliGDDCS said:

Again, a non issue really. UNLESS . . . If you are a RL Hornet pilot, AND you fly the Taurus, you'd have a valid point ONLY IF, you face-plant on the fantail during a real recovery. Breathing into a paper bag could help your immersion issue.

 

sorry but i believe this to be incorrect. It is an issue, to a certain degree, because you end up having to grip the throttles in a way they werent designed to be gripped to begin with. The angle they are designed to be griped from has a purpose, ergonomically speaking. the fact that we get an opposite angle here has consequences.

 

It doesnt mean that you cannot use the throttles. It simply means they feel odd the first time you grip them for someone who is used to that correct angle.

 

its not about immersion. It's about ergonomics. Ergonomic Designs have a reason/purpose. going against those ergonomics isnt a upside, its a downside.

 

It doesnt mean that these arent the best consumer hotas throttle on the market. I think they are.


Edited by FZG_Immel
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I think the reason it doesn't cause an issue for me is that I grip the throttles from the top/front. The front still slopes a bit in the correct direction so that my knuckles follow a natural angle. The result is only a small misalignment between my arm and hand at the wrist. The simple action of moving the throttle through its entire range causes much greater angles than this grip angle. Anywhere from mid range to idle causes a fairly steep wrist angle, which still does not cause me any discomfort in countless hours of flying.

 

While I almost always prefer 100% accuracy, this is still a non-issue for me. The overall scale and functionality are very close. I am pretty sure I would never have even noticed if I had not seen this post.

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8 hours ago, derociliGDDCS said:

Again, a non issue really. UNLESS . . . If you are a RL Hornet pilot, AND you fly the Taurus, you'd have a valid point ONLY IF, you face-plant on the fantail during a real recovery. Breathing into a paper bag could help your immersion issue.

 

Claiming that ergonomics is only relevant if you're a real Hornet pilot is one of the dumbest things I've ever read on this forum.

 

That's quite an achievement!

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Yes, Winwing got this wrong, your thrust lever handles should be tilted by 15 deg to the left... 

This 15 deg angle is a must for carpian canal comfort...  So yes, it matters a lot. 

Unfortunatelly, trying a fix on those wingwing handle, altough rather simple with triangular shaped block of 15 deg angle installed, will see your handles touch and hit eachother since the shape is also wrong somehow. It s due to the double angle cut between both of them that need to be precise. 

Even without the 15 deg, due to slightelly wrong shape, to make sure they dont touch, WW has them both separated by a too big of a gap that is also creating some ergonomic issues... 

 

 

The 15 deg left tilt matches with the angle of the small flat cut area where you have the "cage" button that should be parallel with the throttle axis/plane boresight. 

Mason grips (f/a18 throttle handles contractor builder) plans are avail and show this too... 

Ive used those plans to remake the throttle themselves and adapt it on my rig... Took me a while to get all the angles right but it was worth the effort...

Still a wip though... 

IMG_20210326_142212.jpg

IMG_20210326_142226.jpg


Edited by VIXEN413
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I would presume it's a bigger issue for the Orion since being a desktop version, it would be mounted higher than your arm level more often than not and thus your hand will probably be somewhat bent at the wrist when pushing it (amplifying the effect of the issue), while the Taurus will be mounted lower or at your arm level so your hand will be more like resting on top of it.

 

Orion seems like a great deal otherwise given multiple throttle handles and the price, but I'm not really thrilled with the button options on it - doesn't feel like it brings much more compared to Warthog and the end result kind of feels more like a prototype to me than a final iteration. Also, it replicates a lot of controls from the existing WW panels so if you have those already, the chosen control set will feel less than ideal even more so.


Edited by Dudikoff

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6 hours ago, Dudikoff said:

I would presume it's a bigger issue for the Orion since being a desktop version, it would be mounted higher than your arm level more often than not and thus your hand will probably be somewhat bent at the wrist when pushing it (amplifying the effect of the issue), while the Taurus will be mounted lower or at your arm level so your hand will be more like resting on top of it.

 

Orion seems like a great deal otherwise given multiple throttle handles and the price, but I'm not really thrilled with the button options on it - doesn't feel like it brings much more compared to Warthog and the end result kind of feels more like a prototype to me than a final iteration. Also, it replicates a lot of controls from the existing WW panels so if you have those already, the chosen control set will feel less than ideal even more so.

 

 

I have the WH throttle and it is quite old and getting worn out. I will go for the Orion for the following reasons. The grip buttons are a replication of the F-18 button sequence. The base switches also are a closer match to the F-16 and . . . . an F-16 grip is coming. The throttle base will fit my FOX Mount base I use for the WH throttle. So, I will not be mounting it on the desktop and therefore, the grip angle might be something for me to consider.


Edited by Catseye
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3 minutes ago, Catseye said:

 

I have the WH throttle and it is quite old and getting worn out. I will go for the Orion for two main issues. The grip buttons are a replication of the F-18 button sequence. The throttle base will fit my FOX Mount base I use for the WH Throttle. So, I will not be mounting it on the desktop and therefore, the grip angle might be something for me to consider.

 

Yes, the grip is an improvement over Warthog as it has a better slew control by default and also adds the vertical elevation control for the radar.

 

But, the buttons on the base are a bit of a weird mish-mash, hence why it seems somewhat unfinished to me. E.g. Hornet's AA and AG buttons above the autopilot controls with A-10, F-15 and F-16 markings (which are quite similar to what Warthog has). IMHO, at the very least they should have added 4 more buttons next to those AA and AG buttons to be used with other modules. And a generic rotary encoder like on their panels wouldn't hurt.

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2 hours ago, Dudikoff said:

 

Yes, the grip is an improvement over Warthog as it has a better slew control by default and also adds the vertical elevation control for the radar.

 

But, the buttons on the base are a bit of a weird mish-mash, hence why it seems somewhat unfinished to me. E.g. Hornet's AA and AG buttons above the autopilot controls with A-10, F-15 and F-16 markings (which are quite similar to what Warthog has). IMHO, at the very least they should have added 4 more buttons next to those AA and AG buttons to be used with other modules. And a generic rotary encoder like on their panels wouldn't hurt.

 

It appears to me to be a difficult process to try and combine two different aircraft types into one system. Generic controls, IMHO, can handle this easier in the context that there is no specificity of aircraft type. By not producing two discrete designs, they may end-up by having  a system designed by committee. (ie., a camel instead of a horse)


Edited by Catseye
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7 hours ago, Icebeat said:

I was thinking in buy one but after this, I will wait for a fix.

A fix for what?......hope you are patient! Have had my Taurus since June of last year with not one issue....ergonomically or otherwise. You are basing your decision to purchase on one persons OPINION???


Edited by MustangSally
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