Iron_physik Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 (edited) The original thread gained alot of traction in the WT forum, so I decided to copy it over here into the DCS forum, hoping you all also will appreciate it Introduction The AIM-9 (Airborne Interception Missile) Sidewinder is probably one of the most, if not the most influential and important invention of Aerial warfare, with this thread I want to explain anyone the genius of the design, how it works and how the AIM-9 evolved in its long history. In the begining and a brief explaination of how the AIM-9 works: Spoiler Seeker The very start and basis of the AIM-9 existence dates back to late WW2 Germany, because it was the germans who came up with the idea of the Reticle seeker. without this technology the AIM-9 would not work. But what is a reticle seeker? Its a mechanism that transfers the light signal in a way that you can measure the apearent position of the light source with just 1 detecting element (sensor) this is done by using a special reticle / Sun disk, the most common one is called the AM-Reticle the black areas fully block light grey blocks 50% white blocks nothing. In the AIM-9 this reticle spins at around 200 rotations per second. When you now add a light source to on the other side this light signal gets chopped up by the reticle into a very specific wave form, the shape of this wave tells the missile where the light source is located on the reticle. But how does the missile know where our target is? it simply looks at the frequency and how it is shifted back and forth: the distance to the center is calculated by how "strong" the signal is, a higher magnitude of the measured waves means that the light source is further away from the middle. when the light is at the center, then the signal is 0 so all the missile does is to: chop up the light signal from the target into a carrier wave measure the phase of the wave to figure out the angle ON the disk measure the magnitude ("how strong the signal is") to figure out how far the target is away from the middle of the disk this data is then fed into the relatively simply computer of the AIM-9 and then the missile tries to point the Seeker straight at the target and also steer itself so that the seeker and the missile are in 1 line, because that means it will hit. How the seeker head is set up, in the focal point we find the sensor of the missile the whole reflective lense system is mounted on a gimbal and can move inside the head: Rollerrons Obviously the seeker is a very simple system and can be confused by the missile not bying stable in flight, especially along the roll axis. so it was important to develop a technology to stop the AIM-9 from rolling (which is ironic, considering that the missile Sidewinder cant wind to the side) so the people in the NWS China lake had to come up with something that would be known as rollerron. its the small "rudders" on the rear fin of the AIM-9 in these small rudders there is a wheel with teeth. this wheel is rather heavy and starts to spin due to air rushing past it at high speeds. now everyone who watched out in physics lessons knows that a quickly spinning mass creates a gyroscopic force due to angular momentum, meaning it doesnt really want to move. so now whenever the AIM-9 tries to roll away the gyroscopic forces keep the small rudders in the "0" position and prevent the missile from rolling. All of this technology was put together in the early 1950s in the Naval Weapons Center China Lake and the first operational AIM-9 was delivered to the USN in 1956 using only 14 vaccum tubes and ALOT of great ingiuenity. The Sidewinder Evolution and Performance Thx to MacedonianSukhoi from the warthunder Forums for the image ------------------------------------------------- AIM-9A - Sidewinder 1 Development of Sidewinder began in 1950 at the NOTS (Naval Ordnance Test Station) - later renamed as NWC (Naval Weapons Center) - at China Lake. The idea was to create a very simple heat-seeking air-to-air missile by equipping a 12.7 cm (5 in) air-to-air rocket (based on the 5" zuni) with a lead sulphide (PbS) photo cell in a hemispherical glass nose to detect IR radiation. Another simple, yet effective, idea was the use of "Rollerons" (sliptream-driven wheels at the fin trailing edges acting as stabilizing gyros) as roll-stabilizing devices. The first test missiles were fired in 1951, and on 11 September 1953, the first air-to-air hit on a drone was scored. In the same year, the prototype missile received the offical designation XAAM-N-7. XAAM-N7 Sidewinder prototype AAM-N-7 Sidewinder I (AIM-9A) General Electric began low-rate production in 1955, and in May 1956, the AAM-N-7 Sidewinder I entered U.S. Navy service. Only 240 Sidewinder I missiles were built, and full-rate production missiles (built by Ford Aerospace (Philco) and General Electric) were known as AAM-N-7 Sidewinder IA. ------------------------------------------------- AIM-9B - Sidewinder 1A [USN + USAF] The AIM-9B (Sidewinder 1A) was the next step in the development, it improved on the early prototype Sidewinders by mounting a more sophisticated rear section and by mounting more aerodynamical better frontal fins: The Actuators, rocket motor warhead and seeker stayed the same though. Initially the USAF did not like the AIM-9 due to rivalries, but they switched over after a flyoff against the AIM-4 falcon, the AIM-9 simply performed better in ANY way. this version was the first real serial model and had more than 8000 units made. Performance AIM-9A/B Length: 2.83 m (111.5 in) Finspan: 0.56 m (22 in) Diameter: 12.7 cm (5 in) Weight: 70 kg (155 lb) Speed: Mach 1.7 Propulsion: Thiokol MK 17 solid-fuel rocket (Mk.15 on the AIM-9A) Thrust: 3820lbs (1732kg) for 2.2 seconds Guidance duration: 20 seconds Warhead: 11kg (25lbs) Mark 8 Blast Fragmentation with 4.76kg (10,5lbs) HBX-1 (7,62 kg TNT) Prox Fuze triggering distance: 9m (30ft) Seeker: FOV: 4° Gimbal limit: 20° (Mark 1 mod 0) 30° (Mark 1 Mod 1-14) Tracking rate: 11°/s Cooling: None Maneuvering capability: up to 10g at Sea Level Maneuvering surface: Delta canard Servo torque: 750 in-lbs (84,74 Nm) Max Launch load limit: 2g Rear Aspect only ------------------------------------------------- AIM-9C / D - Sidewinder 1C [USN] The limited performance of the AIM-9B prompted the Navy to look for improvements. The AAM-N-7 Sidewinder IC was developed in two version: a semi-active radar homing version designated AIM-9C in 1963, and an IR guided version, later designated as AIM-9D. Improvements common to both IC versions include a new Hercules MK 36 solid-fuel rocket motor for significantly increased speed and 18 km (9.7 nm) range, a Improved MK 48 continuous-rod warhead, and slightly larger fins. The SARH AIM-9C was only used with the Navy'S F8U Crusader fighters to provide these with an all-weather capability without having to fit a Sparrow-compatible radar. However, the AIM-9C was not very successful, and only 1000 were built by Motorola between 1965 and 1967. Many were later converted into AGM-122A Sidearm anti-radiation missiles. The IR seeker of the AIM-9D (in a more pointed nose) featured a new nitrogen-cooled PbS seeker, which had field of view of only 2.5° (reduced background noise) and a higher traking rate of 12°/s. However, only about 1000 AIM-9D missiles were built (by Philco-Ford and Raytheon) between 1965 and 1969. Performance AIM-9C/D Length: 2.87 m (113 in) Finspan: 0.63 m (24.8 in) Diameter: 12.7 cm (5 in) Weight: 88 kg (195 lb) Speed: Mach 2.5+ Propulsion: Hercules MK 36 solid-fuel rocket Thrust: 2880lbs (1306kg) for 5 seconds Guidance duration: 60 seconds Warhead: 11kg (25lbs) MK 48 continuous-rod warhead with 2.95kg (6.5lbs) HMX (~ 5kg TNT) Prox Fuze triggering distance: 9m (30ft) Seeker: (AIM-9D) FOV: 2.5° Gimbal limit: 40° Tracking rate: 12°/s Cooling: Nitrogen Maneuvering capability: up to 18g at Sea Level Maneuvering surface: Delta canard Servo torque: 1100 in-lbs (124,28Nm) Max Launch load limit: none Rear Aspect only ------------------------------------------------- AIM-9E [USAF] The AIM-9E was the first version specifically developed by the USAF. It was an improved AIM-9B with a new seeker with thermoelectric (Peltier) cooling, and a higher tracking rate of 12°/s. The Peltier cooling method allowed unlimited cooling time while the missile was on the launch rail. Externally, the AIM-9E differed from the AIM-9B by its longer conical nose section. About 5000 AIM-9Bs were converted to AIM-9E. The AIM-9E-2 is a variant with a reduced-smoke motor. Performance AIM-9E Length: 3.00 m (118 in) Finspan: 0.56 m (22 in) Diameter: 12.7 cm (5 in) Weight: 74 kg (164 lb) Speed: Mach 2.5+ Propulsion: Thiokol MK 17 solid-fuel rocket Thrust: 4200lbs (1905kg) for 2.2 seconds Guidance duration: 40 seconds Warhead: 11kg (25lbs) Mark 8 Blast Fragmentation with 4.76kg (10,5lbs) HBX-1 (7,62 kg TNT) Prox Fuze triggering distance: 9m (30ft) Seeker: FOV: 2.5° Gimbal limit: 40° Tracking rate: 12°/s Cooling: Peltier (electric) Maneuvering capability: up to 11g at Sea Level Maneuvering surface: Delta canard Servo torque: 750 in-lbs (84,74 Nm) Max Launch load limit: 2g Rear Aspect only ------------------------------------------------- AIM-9F [Export] The AIM-9F (also known as AIM-9B FGW.2) was a European development of the AIM-9B, of which 15000 were built by Bodensee Gerätetechnik (BGT) in Germany. It featured a now CO2-cooled seeker, some solid-state electronics, and a new longer nose dome. This version entered service in 1969, and most European AIM-9Bs were converted to AIM-9F standard. Performance AIM-9F Length: 2.93 m (115.35 in) Finspan: 0.56 m (22 in) Diameter: 12.7 cm (5 in) Weight: 70 kg (155 lb) Speed: Mach 1.7 Propulsion: Thiokol MK 17 solid-fuel rocket Thrust: 3820lbs (1732kg) for 2.2 seconds Guidance duration: 20 seconds Warhead: 11kg (25lbs) Mark 8 Blast Fragmentation with 4.76kg (10,5lbs) HBX-1 (7,62 kg TNT) Prox Fuze triggering distance: 9m (30ft) Seeker: FOV: 4° Gimbal limit: 30° (Mark 1 Mod 1-14) Tracking rate: 16°/s Cooling: CO2 Maneuvering capability: up to 10g at Sea Level Maneuvering surface: Delta canard Servo torque: 750 in-lbs (84,74 Nm) Max Launch load limit: 2g Rear Aspect only ------------------------------------------------- AIM-9G [USN] Another Navy variant was the AIM-9G, an improved AIM-9D. It featured SEAM (Sidewinder Expanded Acquisition Mode), which allowed the optics either to be slewed through a search pattern, or to be slaved to the aircraft's radar to acquire a target. 2120 AIM-9G were built by Raytheon from 1970 to 1972. Equivalent to ATM-9D, there was also an ATM-9G training version of the AIM-9G. The Sidewinder was of course used extensively over Vietnam by both the USAF and the Navy. The Air Force scored 28 AIM-9 air-to-air kills using the AIM-9B/E versions, achieving a kill probability for this missile of about 16%. The USN's most successful Sidewinder variants in Vietnam were the AIM-9D and -9G, which were resposible for the majority of USN air-to-air kills in this conflict. A total of 82 air-to-air kills over Vietnam are attributed to the AIM-9. Performance AIM-9G Length: 2.87 m (113 in) Finspan: 0.63 m (24.8 in) Diameter: 12.7 cm (5 in) Weight: 87 kg (192 lb) Speed: Mach 2.5+ Propulsion: Hercules MK 36 solid-fuel rocket Thrust: 2880lbs (1306kg) for 5 seconds Guidance duration: 60 seconds Warhead: 11kg (25lbs) MK 48 continuous-rod warhead with 2.95kg (6.5lbs) HMX (~ 5kg TNT) Prox Fuze triggering distance: 9m (30ft) Seeker: FOV: 2.5° Gimbal limit: 40° Tracking rate: 12°/s Cooling: Nitrogen Maneuvering capability: up to 18g at Sea Level Maneuvering surface: Delta canard Servo torque: 1100 in-lbs (124,28Nm) Max Launch load limit: none Rear Aspect only Has SEAM ------------------------------------------------- AIM-9H [USN] To increase the reliability of the AIM-9G, the Navy developed the AIM-9H. The main difference to the AIM-9G were solid-state electronics in the guidance and control system. The seeker tracking rate was also increased to 20°/s to complement the more powerful actuators. Only a few AIM-9Hs were fired over Vietnam. The ATM-9H was a training version for captive flight target acquisition. The latter phase of the Vietnam war, the Linebacker campaigns, saw the first application of the subsequent naval Sidewinder. The Hotel saw some radical changes resulting from experience with the D/G, which suffered reliability problems due the intolerance of vacuum tubes to repeated 20 ft/sec sink rate recoveries on aircraft carrier decks. The AIM-9H was the first solid state Sidewinder, with the complete guidance package built with semiconductors. In redesigning the electronics, the G optical system was essentially retained, but the tracking rate was further increased, to complement the more powerful 1350 in.ib actuators (compared to 1100 in ib of earlier Navy models) While few of the AIM-9H were fired in combat due shortages of supply, they are reported to have scored a much higher kill rate per launch than any other Sidewinder in the campaign. Over 3,000 were built by Philco-Ford and Raytheon. The AIM-9H was by far the best of the early Sidewinders and distinguished itself in Vietnam achieving the best kill rate of any missile in the campaign. Using a solid state seeker with a Nitrogen cooled Lead Sulphide detector, and a more powerful actuator system, the AIM-9H was the most reliable of its kind. The subsequent AIM-9L was directly derived from the AIM-9H. Performance AIM-9H Length: 2.87 m (113 in) Finspan: 0.63 m (24.8 in) Diameter: 12.7 cm (5 in) Weight: 84 kg (186 lb) Speed: Mach 2.5+ Propulsion: Hercules MK 36 solid-fuel rocket Thrust: 2880lbs (1306kg) for 5 seconds Guidance duration: 60 seconds Warhead: 11kg (25lbs) MK 48 continuous-rod warhead with 2.95kg (6.5lbs) HMX (~ 5kg TNT) Prox Fuze triggering distance: 9m (30ft) Seeker: FOV: 2.5° Gimbal limit: 40° Tracking rate: 20°/s Cooling: Nitrogen Maneuvering capability: up to 18g at Sea Level Maneuvering surface: Delta canard Servo torque: 1350 in-lbs (152,53 Nm) Max Launch load limit: none Rear Aspect only Has SEAM ------------------------------------------------- AIM-9J / P [USAF] The USAF's AIM-9J was an improved AIM-9E. It had partial solid-state electronics, a longer-burning gas generator (increasing flight time), and more powerful actuators which drove new square-tipped double-delta canards. The latter feature doubled the single-plane "G"-capability of the missile. About 10000 AIM-9Js were eventually built from 1972 on, mostly by converting existing AIM-9B/E missiles. While the AIM-9L fulfilled the role of the frontline all aspect dogfight missile, a need still existed for a second tier weapon for use in less demanding situations, and also suitable for export to less than absolutely trusted allies. This requirement was fulfilled by the AIM-9P family, derivatives of the AIM-9J/N. The AIM-9P-2 and P-3 were introduced in the mid seventies and use improved guidance electronics, a new rocket motor and an active optical fuse. While not receiving the publicity of the AIM-9L, the success of the weapon is testified to by the fact that no less than 21,000 have been built, with substantial numbers in the USAF inventory. The AIM-9P is a USAF sponsored development of the AIM-9J/N family, to provide a missile for use in less demanding applications. The AIM-9P has evolved through the P-2, P-3 to the all aspect P-4, and the P-5 with additional counter-countermeasures capability. Large numbers of various AIM-9P subtypes are in use with the USAF and many export customers. The missile retains the conical nosecone and characteristic double delta canards first used in the Vietnam era USAF AIM-9E. The AIM-9P-4 is an incremental development of the AIM-9P-3, with an all aspect seeker using some of the technology developed for the AIM-9L. In comparison with its cousin, it is less agile but still a very effective missile. The AIM-9P-5 is further improved by the addition of a counter-countermeasures capability. The wide range of types which can carry the P-3/4/5 suggest that the gas coolant is carried on board, as with the L/M. Performance AIM-9J / P Length: 3.05 m (120 in) Finspan: 0.58 m (22.8 in) Diameter: 12.7 cm (5 in) Weight: 74 kg (164 lb) Speed: Mach 2.5+ Propulsion: Thiokol MK 17 solid-fuel rocket Thrust: 4200lbs (1905kg) for 2.2 seconds Guidance duration: 40 seconds Warhead: 11kg (25lbs) Mark 8 Blast Fragmentation with 4.76kg (10,5lbs) HBX-1 (7,62 kg TNT) Prox Fuze triggering distance: 9m (30ft) Seeker: FOV: 2.5° Gimbal limit: 40° Tracking rate: 16°/s Cooling: Peltier (electric) Maneuvering capability: up to 22g at Sea Level Maneuvering surface: square-tipped double-delta canards Servo torque: 1050 in-lbs (118,63 Nm) Max Launch load limit: 7g Rear Aspect only ------------------------------------------------- AIM-9L / M [USN + USAF] In 1971, the USAF and U.S. Navy agreed to jointly develop the AIM-9L, a vastly improved Sidewinder based on the AIM-9H. Major development goals were ALASCA (All-Aspect Capability) and effective use against violently manoeuvering and high-speed targets at all ranges. The AIM-9L had new long-span pointed double-delta canards, a modified MK 36 solid-fuel rocket motor (MODs 8 through 11), and a new AN/DSQ-29 solid-state guidance and control section. Additional improvements include a completely new Argon-cooled Indium Antimonide (InSb) seeker, a DSU-15/B AOTD (Active Optical Target Detector) laser proximity fuze, and an improved 9.4 kg (20.8 lb) WDU-17/B annular blast-fragmentation warhead. All AIM-9L features resulted in a vastly improved missile which could acquire targets at all aspects, and had a much improved tracking, manoeuvering, terminal homing, and killing performance. Production started in 1978, and more than 16000 AIM-9Ls have been built by Philco-Ford, Raytheon, BGT (Germany), and Mitsubishi (Japan). The AIM-9L was used very successfully by the Royal Navy in the Falklands War during 1982. Training versions of the AIM-9L are the ATM-9L for firing practice, the captive (non-launching) CATM-9L, and the non-flying DATM-9L for handling and loading practice. There is also a version designated NATM-9L, which is equipped with special test and evaluation equipment. There is also a loading practice version of the AIM-9L known as GDU-6/C. This may be just another (earlier) designation for the DATM-9L. The AIM-9M is a development of the AIM-9L and replaced the latter on the production line. It features a reduced-smoke rocket motor, an improved guidance section designated WGU-4/B, better countermeasures resistance (IRCCM - Infrared Counter-Countermeasures), and improved overall reliability. Production began in 1982, and so far more than 7000 missiles have been built by Raytheon in subtypes numbered AIM-9M-1 through AIM-9M-10. The principal current production versions are the AIM-9M-8 (USN) and AIM-9M-9 (USAF). They have further improved IRCM detection circuitry, and the latest versions of the rocket motor (MK 36 MOD 11), guidance section (WGU-4E/B), and AOTD (DSU-15B/B). The AIM-9M-10 is a slightly modified -9M-8 for use by the F/A-18E/F Hornet. Most existing AIM-9Ms will be upgraded to -9M-8/9 standard. In Operation Desert Storm in 1991, 12 air-to-air kills were attributed to the Sidewinder, all of which were probably AIM-9M missiles and they scored a kill propability of around 70% (18 missiles fired), compared to the initial 16% - 20% of early sidewinders this is a great imrovement and speaks for the capability of modern missiles and the long way the AIM-9 family came. Performance AIM-9L / M Length: 2.85 m (112.2 in) Finspan: 0.63 m (24.8 in) Diameter: 12.7 cm (5 in) Weight: 86 kg (191 lb) Speed: Mach 2.5+ Propulsion: Hercules/Bermite MK 36 solid-fuel rocket Thrust: 2660lbs (1206kg) for 5.23 seconds Guidance duration: 60 seconds Warhead: 9.4 kg (20.8 lb) WDU-17/B annular blast-fragmentation with a 3.175 kg (7 lbs) PBXN-3 filler (~ 5,4kg TNT) Prox Fuze triggering distance: 9m (30ft) Seeker: FOV: 2.5° Gimbal limit: 40° Tracking rate: 24°/s Cooling: Argon Maneuvering capability: up to 45g at Sea Level (limited electronically) Maneuvering surface: long-span pointed double-delta canards Servo torque: 1350 in-lbs (152,53 Nm) Max Launch load limit: none All aspect 3km frontal lock range (8.5km against afterburning targets) Has SEAM ------------------------------------------------- Text sources http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-9.html https://www.ausairpower.net/TE-Sidewinder-94.html https://basicsaboutaerodynamicsandavionics.wordpress.com/2017/02/22/electro-optical-systems/ https://www.x-plane.org/home/urf/aviation/text/missiles/aam.html http://www.rolfferch.de/F104G/html/strikebeladeschema.html http://www.bredow-web.de/Drohnen_und_Raketen/AIM-9_Sidewinder_-_Raytheon/aim-9_sidewinder_-_raytheon.html Performance sources https://archive.org/details/OP2630SidewinderExerciseHead https://archive.org/details/OP23093rdAIM9B https://archive.org/details/OP2309Vo4AIM9BLoadAndCheckout https://archive.org/details/OP23092ndSidewinderGuidedMissleMark2 https://archive.org/details/OP3351AIM9C https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a434389.pdf https://archive.org/details/OP3353AIM9CDPIlotsHandbook https://archive.org/details/OP3352AIM9D http://alternatewars.com/SAC/AIM-9B_Sidewinder_1A_SMC_-_January_1972.pdf http://alternatewars.com/SAC/AIM-9B_Sidewinder_CS_-_November_1971.pdf http://alternatewars.com/SAC/AIM-9L_Sidewinder_SMC_-_November_1974.pdf https://i.imgur.com/iYh9q0m.png https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a272984.pdf https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a486826.pdf https://mega.nz/#!arYizYqb!-EIWIRRJBsDJcqYUx8dbeaU6yo7KizkafLrQH92ELNE https://mega.nz/#!inIFDSaL!CpyF3NQTwpYnKEs7Qv5f-8OqLcosaAXEjj2RqwhIT0E https://www.cnatra.navy.mil/local/docs/pat-pubs/P-825.pdf https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a278261.pdf Performance Improvements with Sidewinder Missile Airframe Variants G.H. Rapp, Motorola GED, (1979) CD-101B-0901&2-15D Supplement to Phantom FG Mk1 and FGR Mk2 Aircrew Manuals -Weapon System CD-101B-0903-15B Supplement to Phantom F-4J Aircrew Manual - Weapon System I hope you ejoyed the read and learned about the AIM-9 Sidewinder missile! If you fnd any mistakes please let me know, I want to have all data accurately up to date using actual historic source material. Best regards Iron_physik Edited May 19, 2023 by Iron_physik 6 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 Overall nice post. The L has 40g+ maneuvering capability at SL and 40g structural limit. We know this from graphs published for this missile. 2 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron_physik Posted April 8, 2021 Author Share Posted April 8, 2021 1 minute ago, GGTharos said: Overall nice post. The L has 40g+ maneuvering capability at SL and 40g structural limit. We know this from graphs published for this missile. I would need a source on that and second that doesnt make sense if it has a 40+ g maneuvering capability, but only a structural limit of 40g the missile would break apart mid flight the 45g value comes from a DTIC source, Im currently trying to find it again, it was about structural issues the 9L had, so they needed to pull steel rods through the missile to increase its structural stability. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 6 hours ago, Iron_physik said: and second that doesnt make sense if it has a 40+ g maneuvering capability, but only a structural limit of 40g the missile would break apart mid flight That is what limiters are for. Look at aircraft, you'll find they're called '9g' but can happily pull 12-13 under the right conditions. Having a structural limitation does not mean you cannot exceed it in flight - thus, limiter. 1 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLTeo Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 Nice post. Out of curiosity, does anyone know for how long the earlier variants can cool their seeker heads? That's the one (small) advantage I can see the early AIM-4 having, but that missile only carried enough coolant for a minute or so. Modern AIM-9s can stay cooled for a couple of hours, but I imagine it took a while to get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nighthawk2174 Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 27 minutes ago, TLTeo said: Nice post. Out of curiosity, does anyone know for how long the earlier variants can cool their seeker heads? That's the one (small) advantage I can see the early AIM-4 having, but that missile only carried enough coolant for a minute or so. Modern AIM-9s can stay cooled for a couple of hours, but I imagine it took a while to get there. The AIM-9 collant was held in the pylon as far as i'm aware it was still a significant time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fri13 Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 Just now, nighthawk2174 said: The AIM-9 collant was held in the pylon as far as i'm aware it was still a significant time. I have recollection for a 30 min as active cooling and 60 minutes for something else. i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S. i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLTeo Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 1 hour ago, nighthawk2174 said: The AIM-9 collant was held in the pylon as far as i'm aware it was still a significant time. Makes sense. Whoever decided the AIM-4 should store its coolant internally reaaaaally messed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron_physik Posted April 9, 2021 Author Share Posted April 9, 2021 19 minutes ago, TLTeo said: Makes sense. Whoever decided the AIM-4 should store its coolant internally reaaaaally messed up. AIM-9L and M have a internal argon bottle for "gas cooled" sidewinders the cooling time is about 2h and it takes about 2 minutes to cool the missiles sensor down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLTeo Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Iron_physik said: AIM-9L and M have a internal argon bottle for "gas cooled" sidewinders the cooling time is about 2h and it takes about 2 minutes to cool the missiles sensor down. Uh, I thought they were also cooled from the pylon. Interesting, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 The previous ones were. I don't recall if it was an option that was retained or something else. 1 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heatloss Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 On 4/9/2021 at 10:08 AM, TLTeo said: Makes sense. Whoever decided the AIM-4 should store its coolant internally reaaaaally messed up. It was external on F-101, 102, 106 and a variety of other aircraft designed for it. The F-4D received an update to the pylons that allowed for, I believe, 20 minutes of cooling. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frederf Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 On 4/9/2021 at 2:28 PM, TLTeo said: Uh, I thought they were also cooled from the pylon. Interesting, thanks. USN has pylon cooling (~90m). USAF has internal cooling. Same missile, different cooling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBS17 Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 If you put an IGLA and a Stinger missile next to each other, both missiles are very similar. It is literally the same missile but the launcher is different. [sIGPIC] [/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khajaja Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 On 5/13/2022 at 10:21 AM, SUBS17 said: If you put an IGLA and a Stinger missile next to each other, both missiles are very similar. It is literally the same missile but the launcher is different. ? what the heck are you on about? 2 1 Cold war my beloved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon1-1 Posted August 29, 2022 Share Posted August 29, 2022 In case it's not immediately obvious, this guy doesn't know what he's talking about. He thinks he's living in an alternate reality of some sort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBS17 Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 On 8/29/2022 at 5:54 AM, khajaja said: ? what the heck are you on about? The circuitry is the same and the same motor but the burn is shorter for the Stinger, both missiles are very similar in that area. If you use them the right way they never miss. [sIGPIC] [/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon1-1 Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 How can the motor be the same, but burn shorter? The circuitry is definitely not the same, the Stinger has an UV channel for flare rejection, while Igla is nitrogen-cooled and uses FM guidance. Those two might look similar, but they are very different missiles. And no, neither has 100% hit rate, though they are both pretty good if fired within their envelope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lima29 Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 @Dragon 1-1 Nevermind the accuracy of his comments comparing those two missle systems; I think the main concern is why he completely out of the blue brought up the comment, about two MANPADS systems being the same, in a thread about the Sidewinder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon1-1 Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 Beats me. You should see the word salad he sent me by PM. I have no idea what it was supposed to be other than it being an uncalled for insult. I don't know what's up with him. I was only correcting him just so that some neophyte doesn't stumble in here and repeat this drivel as fact. BTW, it's a great overview post, but it'd be great if OP could fix the images. One of the sites killed hotlinking after this was posted. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron_physik Posted May 19, 2023 Author Share Posted May 19, 2023 I updated the thread due to drama on the WT forums where they deleted custom avatars and signatures I no longer can use that place anymore, because I severly struggle with using it now... anyway, luckily the DCS forum exists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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