Exploit: P-STT & PHs, get Desync Kill

[Papa Saubär]

Hello gentlemen,
 

I would like to report the following exploit/bug.

How to reproduce:
1.) F-14 set target size to LARGE
2.) F-14 Jester target unlock
3.) switch to P-STT
4.) FOX3!
5.) immediately Break lock after Shoot (don't support!) and go out

The Missile will find his target and kill him mostly with a desync from more than a mile! Record: 2.83 NM. 

It can't be due to the internet connection, at least on the shooter, since I had connected "locally" to my server.

Trackfiles and TacView Files here: https://mega.nz/file/jg5gFIxT#wbLNiNSYPTIC63b6sltNe3iAjbEu9g0C0_bYgC1gLz4

With Human RIO it is quite easier to reproduce, because Jester stucked sometimes (PD-STT to P-STT). Then I have to respawn...

I am particularly surprised that the PHs can find their target 40° to the right of it. That should not be possible.

I ask you to fix this bug quickly, because this affects especially the PvP server.

Thanks!

Papa

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

Server TacView.acmi

Edit: I create another report, to solve this problem.
 

 

Edited April 13, 2021 by Papa Saubär

[Naquaii]

18 minutes ago, Papa Saubär said:

Hello gentlemen,
 

I would like to report the following exploit/bug.

How to reproduce:
1.) F-14 set target size to LARGE
2.) F-14 Jester target unlock
3.) switch to P-STT
4.) FOX3!
5.) immediately Break lock after Shoot (don't support!) and go out

The Missile will find his target and kill him mostly with a desync from more than a mile! Record: 2.83 NM. 

It can't be due to the internet connection, at least on the shooter, since I had connected "locally" to my server.

Trackfiles and TacView Files here: https://mega.nz/file/jg5gFIxT#wbLNiNSYPTIC63b6sltNe3iAjbEu9g0C0_bYgC1gLz4

With Human RIO it is quite easier to reproduce, because Jester stucked sometimes (PD-STT to P-STT). Then I have to respawn...

I am particularly surprised that the PHs can find their target 40° to the right of it. That should not be possible.

I ask you to fix this bug quickly, because this affects especially the PvP server.

Thanks!

Papa

 

 

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Server TacView.acmi 3.37 MB · 1 download

 

 

 

I think you've got some things wrong here unfortunately. In P-STT you never support the missile, it will always launch active along the target line of sight.

 

You say you tell Jester to break lock and then P-STT again, but on what? From the image it looks like the missile is launching straight ahead which would suggest a boresight launch. If that is the case it won't matter if you support it or not which you can't do in P-STT anyway. The only difference with a P-STT track would be that it would launch at the direction of the track and go active. It still wouldn't be supported.

 

After launch the missile dynamics are entirely out of our hands as it's then EDs missile dynamics that take over. But what are you basing the 40 degree limit on?

[draconus]

Btw: setting target size matters only for TWS shots

[simon3554]

Doesnt mean Dracunos that it couldnt be bugged. Maybe it is bugged and it actually does matter which setting you have it on when trying to replicate. Papa could you try and replicate with TGT size medium and small?

[Papa Saubär]

@simon3554yes sure, I will try some more. Stay tuned.

I created this report to point out the problem. I hope someone will take care of the problem. 

 

Perhaps is Target Size XYZ also completely unnecessary, but surely we agree that desync is a bad thing. 

Today on the Blue Flag I noticed the following desync (14 NM!), again from a Tomcat.

 

[near_blind]

IIRC, missile flight path and hits are determined by the client that launched the missile, not the server or the target. The longer the time of flight, the more network latency, the greater the apparent desync to other clients: this is an inherent issue with DCS netcode that is exaggerated in the AIM-54 due to its longer flight times. If the missile off by 15 miles on shooters's track/tacview, than that would be an issue. 

[Papa Saubär]

Just did some more test.

Results:
1.) Target Size Small/Normal/Large doesn't matter
2.) P-STT and break the lock manual doesn't matter
3.) P-STT tracking is still bugged and should be fixed soon
4.) TWS tracking works correctly

Here the file: https://mega.nz/file/K1QmATiZ#9PUtBKhmNtPp9MZ21efRx6Omj9_OrJNm4xS_P_U66w8

[Naquaii]

As I said in my earlier post, P-STT does not support the missile and thus will launch active directly at the sensor line of sight.

[TAW_Mago]

That is not the point. We don´t argue about that. The point is the desync it is apparantly causing. If you look at the distance the missile is traveling and in your mind you pull the line of the flight path straight towards the F-16, it looks like the missile was in reality flying straight towards it. Might be coinsidence but what ever it is, sth. is obviously off. Please at least interrogate! Thank you in advance! 
Cheers

Edited April 12, 2021 by TAW_Mago

[Night Raid]

I think there is a misunderstanding.

The main problem this shows is only that the Phoenix that is fired on P-STT mode provoke a massive missile desync.
The Defender (F16 here) get a warning really really late cause the missile turns like 90° unsupported to the Aircraft.
And as you said the P-STT mode should activate the Missile directly after launch. It doesnt.
The defender doesnt get any warning after the launch. And after that the missile is like 5NM away from the defender and suddendly explode.
I dont think thats indendet. And i agree that with missile turning is a thing only ED can handle but the P-STT at this state destroys all MP fun at the moment.

[Naquaii]

Yeah, the issue here if so is the missile itself. Unfortunately that needs a bug report to ED in the DCS 2.5 bug forums, as we can't control the missile after launch in this case in our module.

Afaik there's also a range limit for when active missiles show up on RWR in DCS, so even if launched active they'll not show up until somewhere around 10NM. The antenna seeker limits on the AIM-54 is somewhere around 60 degrees afaik so 40 degrees isn't impossible at all but that still doesn't change the fact that if the missiles sees you it should warn you.

 

 

[Papa Saubär]

Thanks for your answer!

It just feels to us that the AIM-54 continues to receive information. Unfortunately, F-14 trackfiles are more than modest, so you can't even see the AIM-54 in the shooter trackfile (and therefore its flight path). 
 

Our main problem is that with all FOX3 modules the bug/desync with the P-STT occurs. All other A/C or radar modes have a much lower desync chance.
 

To solve this problem, I created another report.