TWS not working properly?

[dburne]

18 minutes ago, Wobbly said:

i just had my frist MP flight with it and its just so annoying. i use my SA page on my Left DDI, so you go into spot, then SCS left, check bandit altiude, SCS right, you are out of Spot. You lock something up in Spot, drop the lock instantly, you are out of spot, you press undesignate, you are out of spot. Everytime i have to Press and hold TDC Depress for more than a second. It slows the Process of using SA page together with the Radar down by a huge Ammount. If thats how it is in real life, they really didn't make it user friendly lol, atleast not for stressfull situations

 

I am experiencing similar frustrations now with  being able to lock and maintain a lock in TWS.

[Mo410]

So in real life, you get all your track files (and PPLI's, and Surv tracks -on and off board) displayed on the AZ/EL so you know if your radar FOV is in the right spot or not.  Normally SPOT is used to either breakout a two ship if you only see one contact, or to get an initial detection on someone you know is there, but need some extra energy down range.  Not frequently used, only when things aren't working out.  You can also make L&S and DT2's from the SA format and the AZ/EL, which make things much easier when track files are not in front of you.

 

So you have a half implemented system that is getting there, but the features that are still lacking cause the current system to not make sense.  Make sure you are managing your PRF in TWS, and up your aging to keep the bricks appearing.  It is better, but still could have some improvement on the integration of the SA/AZ/EL/Rdr Attk formats.

[wilbur81]

15 minutes ago, Mo410 said:

 You can also make L&S and DT2's from the SA format and the AZ/EL, which make things much easier when track files are not in front of you.

 

Wow... Seriously? Good to know... I hope the ED Team is on top of that.

 

It boggles my mind that Hughes/Boeing didn't give the pilot a simple way to narrow the Azimuth and then move it around manually without the 'press-hold-for-1 second- nonsense... 

Edited April 16, 2021 by wilbur81

[Mo410]

No, you can bump the azimuth or push button it down like you can with the range (where left side of scope is less az) and the single TDC depress like on AZ/EL to move radar FOV around.  It works exactly like the AZ/EL but on the ATTK format.  It makes sense when it all works like it should.  If something is displayed on the Attk format, the computers have a good guess if not the actual answer of the altitude of the trackfile/surv track, so when you TDC over it, the altitude and mach will also appear, something that is currently absent for offboards.

[Bear21]

Thanks Mo, I think ED is struggling with imprecise SMEs. The programmers and testers can only implement and test for correctness what is specified for them in total detail (been there, done that), so if the spec is wrong or imprecise they burn the hours with this kind of results. I feel sorry for them, it's not their fault. ED needs a knowledgeable person who tells them how to spec it in all the details.

[AvroLanc]

On 4/16/2021 at 1:31 AM, Mo410 said:

So in real life, you get all your track files (and PPLI's, and Surv tracks -on and off board) displayed on the AZ/EL so you know if your radar FOV is in the right spot or not.  Normally SPOT is used to either breakout a two ship if you only see one contact, or to get an initial detection on someone you know is there, but need some extra energy down range.  Not frequently used, only when things aren't working out.  You can also make L&S and DT2's from the SA format and the AZ/EL, which make things much easier when track files are not in front of you.

 

So you have a half implemented system that is getting there, but the features that are still lacking cause the current system to not make sense.  Make sure you are managing your PRF in TWS, and up your aging to keep the bricks appearing.  It is better, but still could have some improvement on the integration of the SA/AZ/EL/Rdr Attk formats.

 

On 4/16/2021 at 2:23 AM, Mo410 said:

No, you can bump the azimuth or push button it down like you can with the range (where left side of scope is less az) and the single TDC depress like on AZ/EL to move radar FOV around.  It works exactly like the AZ/EL but on the ATTK format.  It makes sense when it all works like it should.  If something is displayed on the Attk format, the computers have a good guess if not the actual answer of the altitude of the trackfile/surv track, so when you TDC over it, the altitude and mach will also appear, something that is currently absent for offboards.

 

Mo410, are you in any kind of formal contact with ED at all?

 

This functionality is critical and would represent a huge improvement over what we've got. I think the problem for ED so far has been a lack of documentation/SME clarity, but with some of your input on a formal basis it might clear things up. Thanks.

 

Fingers crossed.

[Mo410]

I've sent them a list of things that could be improved on to get closer and they are having a look, but nothing formal, which is fine.

[dburne]

Man oh man I know I am still learning but I am getting my butt handed to me in air to air now.

Mission 8 of Cage the Bear. I get blown out of the sky every time. Oftentimes I see hostile contacts myself with limited icons before they show up on TWS. Have even tried RWS. No warnings, I just get blown away.

 

I don't recall having this much a problem previous to 2.7. I think this mission is going to be impossible for me, and it is the final mission.

[LaFleur]

On 4/16/2021 at 1:54 AM, Jak525 said:

DCS is exceptionally clunky and wrong at the moment. The trackfile's altitude should be able to be seen on the Attack format, without going to the SA.

 

Wow! Are you sure about this?? This is the only thing I found frustrating during BVR in the F-18; having to go to SA, slew the cursor around to find this highest/fastest threat, then back to ATTK, slew again, fix the antenna elevation, soft lock, Press Auto in TWS. So many things to do, and buttons to press, when in the F-16, you just slew the FCRs cursor around while glancing at your HSD.

 

If this is true, a simple feature like that (which exists in the F-16), will make things much easier for the pilot!

[Jak525]

On 4/19/2021 at 10:51 PM, LaFleur said:

Wow! Are you sure about this?? This is the only thing I found frustrating during BVR in the F-18; having to go to SA, slew the cursor around to find this highest/fastest threat, then back to ATTK, slew again, fix the antenna elevation, soft lock, Press Auto in TWS. So many things to do, and buttons to press, when in the F-16, you just slew the FCRs cursor around while glancing at your HSD.

 

If this is true, a simple feature like that (which exists in the F-16), will make things much easier for the pilot!

More than sure. HAFU symbols (MSI trackfiles) are supposed to appear basically identical on the Attack, SA, and Az/El formats and can be interacted with in very similar ways. You should always be able to cursor over to see the altitude/Mach and even designate them as the L&S/DT2 from the three formats. Only thing you can't do from the SA is go into STT.

 

Furthermore, when a track is designated as the L&S or DT2 track, it should have its Mach/altitude always displayed, on all three formats.

 

The Link-only trackfiles are also pretty messed up. You should be able to designate them before the radar sees them. Very importantly, the Mach/altitude should be shown when they are under the cursor (currently only works on the SA).

 

Basically, the system should be much more easy to use without any cumbersome swapping between this and that format. The only information completely UNIQUE to the SA is the stuff in the data windows in the bottom left and right like PPLI callsign, fuel state, etc.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Jak525

[LaFleur]

Thanks for the info! I hope ED sees this and implements this feature. It's so simple but yet incredibly convenient.

[wilbur81]

Jak525, any offers from ED for you to join their "Bring the Hornet's Software Up to Speed" Department?   The features you mention in this thread would make the DCS Hornet SO MUCH more user friendly/lethal in the air to air, situational awareness regime.

[HILOK]

@Jak525 thanks, i really hope this and the cursor only being visible on the format currently being SOI will make it into our DCS hornet eventually 

[Harker]

The TDC showing only on the priority display was already shown in Wags' ATFLIR video, so we can assume it's already implemented in the dev build.

[wilbur81]

On 4/15/2021 at 5:54 PM, Jak525 said:

DCS is exceptionally clunky and wrong at the moment. The trackfile's altitude should be able to be seen on the Attack format, without going to the SA.

 

Removing TDC priority from the Attack format should exit Spotlight and remove the cursor from the Attack page entirely though. Cursor should only be visible when TDC is assigned to the given format.
 

In the end, the whole swapping between SA and Attack should NOT be a necessary part of the workflow. You should be able to purely reference the Attack format. The advantage of the SA is 1) shows targets behind you and 2) shows some more detailed data on the MSI track like callsign and whatnot.

 

Ultimately, a complete redo of MSI trackfiles is required. You shouldn't need to go the SA format for one thing and the Attack/Radar for another, except for that detailed information the SA provides in the data windows that is not on  the Attack format. In fact, those data windows should display on the SA for the target under cursor on the Attack. So you can simply glance at the SA for info on the target you have under cursor on the Attack, without assigning the TDC to the SA and slewing the cursor on the SA itself. Same for Az/El.

 

Jak,

 

Do you have any solid evidence on the APG-73/Lot 20 to back this functionality up? I ask because the ED Team has marked this thread as "No Evidence" regarding the MSI functionality on the RDR ATTK page. Just curious...