reported VR Controllers: Lost laser pointer and bindings

[ldwater]

Hey,

 

HP Reverb G2

 

Just installed 2.7 and my VR controllers have lost the laser pointer (on grip) and key bindings.

 

Before I didn't have to setup the controller in the usual input bindings, the trigger did left click but the thumb stick would rotate or click switches up or down.

 

Now the beam is gone so I can't easily see what I'm pointing at and only the trigger works, so I can't turn dials or flick switches easily anymore.

 

Any idea when these things would be back as at the moment the game is pretty much unplayable and 2D is not an option for me.

 

Thanks

[Bowman-011]

I was about to post the same. Already played with the available options but I couldn't get it back working. Am I missing something here? The missing laser pointer is annoying but the fact that the thumb stick doesn't rotate buttons anymore makes it pretty unplayable. 

[stuart4544]

Same for me. Unplayable until fixed. I don't have a 2D set up

[Dannyvandelft]

Came here to say the same

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Bloody]

Me too  hope ED will restore it

[Max Thunder]

Same here 

Quest 2

Edited April 14, 2021 by Max Thunder

[Ratfink]

same here. Rift S user

[200rabbits]

Same here.

The new in-game VR hands feel much nicer for pushing buttons with, but I can't actually reach a lot of the buttons in the cockpit without bumping my physical controllers into things, and we've lost control of knobs and dials, confidence about when an interaction will translate to a right-click, and we've still got the problem that most buttons will decide they're being pressed multiple times when you push them with the in-game VR hand.

Edited April 14, 2021 by 200rabbits

[delenda]

Yep, same here, impossible to start up a plane with a controller now. Having to use mouse to click switches. I'm really hoping a fix comes soon.

[Sandman1330]

Same!

 

also noticed the texture of the hand is more detailed though, not just a black hand but an actual flight glove, looks pretty cool but harder to use now.

[Fri13]

The new American flight glove is interesting (liked the black leather with nice stitching in the upper part too) and it is now better sized IMHO. 

I was as well happy to see first the beam lasers gone, but there are few problems now.

 

The previous mini-stick Up/Down/Left/Right works as previously, but you just don't see the cross or the laser beam to know that what you are pointing, and it is pointing wrong direction so it is difficult to do without labels. 

 

1) Regardless you have controllers in use, the mouse cursor moves with the HMD in VR. So you get all over the places the buttons labels popping up and away. Very annoying. You can't disable the "Use Mouse" in VR settings as then it turns to HMD centered mouse dot. Like, I want the hands to be only active when I press the grip button (Oculus Touch).

 

2) I want to see a option to enable/disable the laser beam as here are people wanted to see it. I am more than happy for having it gone, as I want to point things with my finger (have been doing so for long time) instead use a beam/cross.  Have a option to hold the mini-stick Up/Down/Left/Right and have its function to be input when you touch the buttons, switches and knobs etc. Now your poke will just trigger mouse left button and you need to point object and utilize the proper function separately.  

 

3)  Hand angle and finger direction is wrong. If having hand in controller properly and pointing with index finger straight, the game hand and finger points to right and below from the real hand position. It feels just wrong and bad. So a hand axis adjustment is required to be in the VR settings. There could be automatic one where you point with finger a dot on the screen and press button and the system automatically adjust hand axis to match the real hand pointing direction. Or just have two axis sliders to adjust the hand X/Y off-set.

 

4) For the touch / pointing to work properly, we need new setting for all cockpit switches. A delay between activation. Right now if you have a switch that moves Up and Down, then touching it with index finger makes it flip Up and Down at rapid speed. You need to try to just barely touch the button from corret position so it wouldn't be touched when it flips to another position. Like have a adjustable 0.5-2 second delay for re-reaction of the touch. So if you hold finger on the switch then it will swap its position only after set delay time has moved, so like after 2 seconds on each flip it will flip again. This would allow to go pressing buttons in the MFCD easily as right now you press button and it will swap between pages on that one OSB as you don't get to move hand away in time. So your only way is to "swipe" finger quickly over the button carefully so you don't touch buttons next to it. Having re-reaction happen example 0.5 second delay would allow to just point the buttons, and it wouldn't even be a problem if required to input multiple times same button like no:8 in UFC for inputting laser code 1688 as 0.5 second would be enough delay to allow second time of pressing 8 to be acceptable (2 seconds would be annoying in there, but not with switches)

 

I might be the only one who is happy for loss of the laser beam and mouse cursor, but IMHO the virtual hand should be usable without either one. Just get the hand angle and repeat delay fixed and at least I am happy!

 

[StevanJ]

Yeah, PLEASE restore the triggers and zoom, PLEASE restore the old pointer, and PLEASE lose the 'sticky' grip on the helicopters..
Before you could point the heli where you wanted to like a trimmer button, and it would fly itself.

Now I have to grab the stick once to 'hold it' and grab it again to 'let go'.

Its really unintuitive this way.
 

Edited April 15, 2021 by StevanJ

[Fri13]

2 minutes ago, StevanJ said:

Yeah, PLEASE restore the triggers, PLEASE restore the old pointer, and PLEASE lose the 'sticky' grip on the helicopters..
Before you could point the heli where you wanted to like a trimmer button, and it would fly itself.

Now I have to grab the stick once to 'hold it' and grab it again to 'let go'.

Its really unintuitive this way.

 

All those should be optional in the VR settings. You can disagree but not everyone want laser beams and crosshairs and constantly hold the grip.

 

The old triggers are still there. You just don't get to do it properly as the "invisible laser beam" points at the different direction than your finger does.

Mini-stick Up moves switches Up and Down moves Down. Left turns counter-clockwise and right turns clockwise all the knobs. Trigger is still as a left click, and rotating palm around makes a right click on buttons/switches and on knobs it is "grab" and moving hand adjust them. 

 

You just need to know where to point the hand to use those things like before. 

[StevanJ]

Just now, Fri13 said:

 

All those should be optional in the VR settings. You can disagree but not everyone want laser beams and crosshairs and constantly hold the grip.

 

The old triggers are still there. You just don't get to do it properly as the "invisible laser beam" points at the different direction than your finger does.

Mini-stick Up moves switches Up and Down moves Down. Left turns counter-clockwise and right turns clockwise all the knobs. Trigger is still as a left click, and rotating palm around makes a right click on buttons/switches and on knobs it is "grab" and moving hand adjust them. 

 

You just need to know where to point the hand to use those things like before. 

I agree with you!

 

But until we have those settings in the VR panel, a majority of the players i fly with arent playing anymore because the new glove system is giving the righties' Carpal tunnel syndrome when they push the left MFD buttons..

How do you mean old triggers?
Ive just had a 40 minute game in Warbirds, where i had to fly one handed, as to be able to keep a hand on the space bar to shoot.

And now we cant fly heli's as we dont have a trigger switch bound.
The old way for helis was perfect, It was like having a trimmer switch, grab>move>let go.
Now we have to grab>move>grab>let go..

Its far less intuitive. Especially for the people like me that have put their HOTAS on a shelf.
 

[Fri13]

1 minute ago, StevanJ said:

I agree with you!

 

But until we have those settings in the VR panel, a majority of the players i fly with arent playing anymore because the new glove system is giving the righties' Carpal tunnel syndrome when they push the left MFD buttons..

 

Instead reversing the work to return new code and hand to old one, it is better just to fix the problem by making the suggested changes.

1) Add option to enable laser beam and crosshair for those who need it (+ adjustment slider to set the laser beam length from like 2 cm to 200 cm)

2) Add option to enable old grip button function to behave that you need to hold it down to have it grabbing the stick/throttle, so when flying you need to keep pressing grip button down. 

3) Add option to bind A/B and X/Y buttons as separate functions when holding grip or when not holding grip (and then have opposite as default VR reset, VR zoom, end mission etc) This allows to example set them as trim or shoot/release buttons or just keep them as example left/right mouse button for easy use (and allow trigger to be binded as well). 

4) Allow adjusting hand position and angle, as now it is off-axis from the real controller. 

 

1 minute ago, StevanJ said:

How do you mean old triggers?
Ive just had a 40 minute game in Warbirds, where i had to fly one handed, as to be able to keep a hand on the space bar to shoot.

 

Trigger by default acts as LMB and when you rotate hand past 12'clock position it acts as a RMB / middle mouse button depending is button/switch target or a knob/dial. 

 

1 minute ago, StevanJ said:

And now we cant fly heli's as we dont have a trigger switch bound.

 

That has been problem from the begin that we can't bind those buttons and hats as wanted. Instead we are forced to use what ED decides for them. 

 

1 minute ago, StevanJ said:

The old way for helis was perfect, It was like having a trimmer switch, grab>move>let go.
Now we have to grab>move>grab>let go..

 

For flying helicopter I take more gladly that I can just press once the grip to grab the control and then hold gently the controller to fly. I don't need to be keeping grip button down to maintain the grip. Then to let go I press again the grip. Helicopter is Hands On flying, you can't release grip unless you have autopilot like in KA-50 to take care of it, and there you can just release grip as AP doesn't care so much. 

 

1 minute ago, StevanJ said:

Its far less intuitive. Especially for the people like me that have put their HOTAS on a shelf.

 

Flying conventional helicopter without holding the cyclic is unrealistic. And you want to fly helicopter for long periods just by holding controller with two or three fingers instead full grip holding the grip down.

 

 

[StevanJ]

Yeah I agree, That list would be adored and loved, but look how long its taken to get new clouds, do you really think were going to get a control overhaul.

 

23 minutes ago, Fri13 said:

Then to let go I press again the grip. Helicopter is Hands On flying, you can't release grip unless you have autopilot like in KA-50 to take care of it, and there you can just release grip as AP doesn't care so much. 

 

24 minutes ago, Fri13 said:

Flying conventional helicopter without holding the cyclic is unrealistic.

Thats what i mean, You 'press the button to let go' Youre already grabbing the stick. Holding the button confirms this, when you let go of the button, its like youre letting go of the stick.
This new system, means i can grab the stick, and cyclic then put the control down, and go to the toilet and the game thinks im still holding the stick.
Its not realistic anymore.

I agree with what you said, without holding the cyclic, its just unrealistic.
I think we need to put them back to the way it was. Get that realism back.

I liked how much more real it was before.
This new way is far less intuitive.
 

[Fri13]

25 minutes ago, StevanJ said:

Yeah I agree, That list would be adored and loved, but look how long its taken to get new clouds, do you really think were going to get a control overhaul.

 

But they just added things, a lot of things. They have modified many things that are not in the changelog. Like right now the Mi-8 weapon safety light has actual text in it, instead just lamp. 

We have "VRFree" controller in the VR settings. We have this new hand (and angle and all). Clearly they take these things seriously but need to just do what is required to complete them. 

 

25 minutes ago, StevanJ said:

 

Thats what i mean, You 'press the button to let go' Youre already grabbing the stick. Holding the button confirms this, when you let go of the button, its like youre letting go of the stick.

 

Sure that is like realistic thing, but the problem is again in the real controller grip button location being in unrealistic position, why you can't hold cyclic with just two/three fingers as you need to hold the controller in your hand to keep pushing that grip button. Hence it is better to go for press for grab, press for release as then you can fly with holding controller with just two or three fingers like real thing. 

 

25 minutes ago, StevanJ said:

This new system, means i can grab the stick, and cyclic then put the control down, and go to the toilet and the game thinks im still holding the stick.
Its not realistic anymore.

 

The current system is as you wanted, in HOLD mode. As long you keep grip button down, as long it is grabbing the virtual controllers. Once you release the grip button, then you release the virtual controls.

 

25 minutes ago, StevanJ said:

I agree with what you said, without holding the cyclic, its just unrealistic.
I think we need to put them back to the way it was. Get that realism back.

 

It is like it was. It is not a Toggle but Hold how it works. 

 

[StevanJ]

30 minutes ago, Fri13 said:

 

But they just added things, a lot of things. They have modified many things that are not in the changelog. Like right now the Mi-8 weapon safety light has actual text in it, instead just lamp. 

We have "VRFree" controller in the VR settings. We have this new hand (and angle and all). Clearly they take these things seriously but need to just do what is required to complete them. 

 

 

Sure that is like realistic thing, but the problem is again in the real controller grip button location being in unrealistic position, why you can't hold cyclic with just two/three fingers as you need to hold the controller in your hand to keep pushing that grip button. Hence it is better to go for press for grab, press for release as then you can fly with holding controller with just two or three fingers like real thing. 

 

 

The current system is as you wanted, in HOLD mode. As long you keep grip button down, as long it is grabbing the virtual controllers. Once you release the grip button, then you release the virtual controls.

 

 

It is like it was. It is not a Toggle but Hold how it works. 

 

Toggle solved.. Good Job.
Now we need the pointer rectifying and the binds back so i can dogfight in the warbirds.

[damtired]

would love to get this resolved or to get a time frame. Will have to rearrange my whole setup to make this work..

Love the idea of no pointers, but the hands would have to work much more intuitively and smoothly before thats a practical step.

[Eldur]

Noticed this as well, as mentioned here. Needs to be addressed.

 

For the ones who would rather not have the beam/pointer, basically the ones who don't have obstacles around and prefer to hit the switches directly, I'd suggest the approach that VTOL VR did. Get the finger to the thing. Press and hold trigger to grab it and then move the controller accordingly to manipulate, like up/down, left/right, fwd/back or even rotate. And then release trigger to stop interacting. Works darn well in that other sim. And BTW, that can even work together with the old style, as the LMB was/is on the thumbstick already.

 

Also, with the correct setting checked, the beam/pointer would only be visible with the grip held down. That at least prevents some unwanted actions (but the HMD still is able to trigger that if you bury your nose in a switch or keypad), but adding the interactivity as described above would even remove those unwanted canopy pops and other switch throws when you try to point at something while getting close to some other trigger zones. In the end, everything should be options, so everyone can set it to their likings, and we all win.

 

Also, we need to be able to disable the stick and throttle grip interactions. Those of us who fly with a HOTAS, but use the controllers for switchology would be happy about that. The A-4E-C has the problem that there is a grip zone for the stick to the right of the actual thing and I often ended up grabbing (and therefor pulling it completely to the right wall and pushing a good bit forward at the same time) it unintentionally when I wanted to switch things on the armament panel. Also had that a few times in the Viper, but it wasn't as often.

[ross_freeman]

3 часа назад, Fri13 сказал:

 

All those should be optional in the VR settings. You can disagree but not everyone want laser beams and crosshairs and constantly hold the grip.

 

The old triggers are still there. You just don't get to do it properly as the "invisible laser beam" points at the different direction than your finger does.

Mini-stick Up moves switches Up and Down moves Down. Left turns counter-clockwise and right turns clockwise all the knobs. Trigger is still as a left click, and rotating palm around makes a right click on buttons/switches and on knobs it is "grab" and moving hand adjust them. 

 

You just need to know where to point the hand to use those things like before. 

Heu. The fact is that the trigger finger does not work when shooting. visually, he presses the trigger and in fact nothing happens.

[ross_freeman]

At the moment, I have the ability to fly only using the VR controllers, but after the update, the start button does not work. namely the right and left triggers do not work when trying to make a rocket launch

[Fri13]

4 hours ago, StevanJ said:

Toggle solved.. Good Job.
Now we need the pointer rectifying and the binds back so i can dogfight in the warbirds.

 

Most of the bindings are there.

 

Trigger = Left Click

Trigger (CCW) = Right Click / Middle click to drag knobs around by moving hand.

Up = Right click

Down = Left click

Right = Rotate right

Left = Rotate left

X/Y = Center VR view

A/B = Zoom view

(don't really recall which one was which as I don't even remember which side had which without looking a photo, and don't remember which button did what)

Grip HOLD = Grab virtual controls as long as hold down.

 

So if something that has changed is possible the trigger acting as LMB when grabbing the stick. I don't recall how it worked back in the day when the virtual controllers gained capability to grab these as I don't use this unrealistic feature (nice to have if traveling with a laptop and VR to fly a simple aircraft like WW2 birds that don't have more than one button in throttle or stick). But that I know that forever you have not had change to bind these buttons and triggers in touch controllers properly in game, what has been wishlist to be changed. 

 

One can try to use a DirectInput-to-XInput Wrappers to get things working by the button part by binding them to keyboard etc.

Dolphin VR https://dolphinvr.wordpress.com/

Auto_Oculus_Touch https://github.com/rajetic/auto_oculus_touch/releases

XOutput https://github.com/csutorasa/XOutput

XBOX 360 Controller Emulator https://www.x360ce.com/

 

The Oculus Touch Controllers should be a DirectInput devices, so you should be able read those inputs and convert them to XInput for standard DirectX inputs. 

 

I might try those later today as I am very interested to get more out of them, but I want the hands move in space as now. 

Personally for me the ultimate is still that no lasers, no crosshairs. Get the virtual hand positioned properly for a real hand and then get each of button/switch etc be triggered only once every X milliseconds (like touch input is registered for same button/switch only once every 200-2000 milliseconds instead like now with as fast and long as finger is on the button/switch).

[Fri13]

4 hours ago, Eldur said:

Noticed this as well, as mentioned here. Needs to be addressed.

 

For the ones who would rather not have the beam/pointer, basically the ones who don't have obstacles around and prefer to hit the switches directly, I'd suggest the approach that VTOL VR did. Get the finger to the thing. Press and hold trigger to grab it and then move the controller accordingly to manipulate, like up/down, left/right, fwd/back or even rotate. And then release trigger to stop interacting. Works darn well in that other sim. And BTW, that can even work together with the old style, as the LMB was/is on the thumbstick already.

 

Well, the animation for the virtual hand to grab the switch is fancy, but it as well feels little off. And in VTOL VR (one of my favorite VR games, so would have hoped to see it in standalone for Quest 2.... Think about playing VTOL VR where ever just with Quest 2.... Oh boy) the cockpit is designed by the VR controllers. Large buttons, well separated big switches and levers. 

In a real aircraft switches, buttons and levers are placed so that you manipulate them with thumb or you just flip with finger. Like example the MiG-21Bis sidepanel switches are guarded each individually so that you can lay your hand on the panel to feel where your hand is and flip switch up / down with thumb, and then glance that did you flip the proper one and back to looking outside. The landing gear is like you don't look at it, you just get your hand on it and feel it and you operate it in all aircraft. The UFC is such that you place hand to side of it and use thumb to operate it while hand is supported on side.

 

Having a VR hand to perform a "pinch" like in VTOL VR on each widget and knob in the DS could look challenging. It could be a good solution but we would need the virtual hand to go through everything else than these now. I would like to try it as it could be good response but right now it is easy to point virtual hand index finger on thing and get it operated. Problem is that once you do so, the hand continues sending input and widget will keep reacting to input as fast as it can. So you can see switches jumping back and forth at rapid speed etc. 

 

Quote

Also, with the correct setting checked, the beam/pointer would only be visible with the grip held down.

 

That was the old setting. I don't want the beam at all. Just like we have it now. No beam as it is distracting. Just the glove as now is amazing. This means as well that now the invisible beam as it still exist would be visible, you can get it when you point to other side of cockpit in Mi-8MTv2 I noticed... So it seems to be designed so that if you can reach at something the beam is invisible, but if you point something you can't reach, then it is visible!.

 

But I don't want whole beam visible or its function. I want option to have it gone.  So options for VR settings for virtual hands:

 

1) Dynamic laser beam (current) / constant laser beam (old) / no laser beam.

2) On/Off for a capability operate widgets from further distance than touching finger (the end of the laser beam)

3) laser beam visible all the time / only when grip hold down.

 

 

Quote

That at least prevents some unwanted actions (but the HMD still is able to trigger that if you bury your nose in a switch or keypad), but adding the interactivity as described above would even remove those unwanted canopy pops and other switch throws when you try to point at something while getting close to some other trigger zones. In the end, everything should be options, so everyone can set it to their likings, and we all win.

 

I think the canopy opening and ejection seat handles etc should require a button click. Not touching. A UFC panel should work with just touching, but you accidentally place hand on ejection seat that's top of you are sitting and BOOM, you are out. Nope, it is requirement to do three times clicking (and should be in all aircraft, as only few does it. Best way to get ejected...). 

 

Quote

Also, we need to be able to disable the stick and throttle grip interactions.

 

Totally agree. On/Off setting for that too.

 

Quote

Those of us who fly with a HOTAS, but use the controllers for switchology would be happy about that. The A-4E-C has the problem that there is a grip zone for the stick to the right of the actual thing and I often ended up grabbing (and therefor pulling it completely to the right wall and pushing a good bit forward at the same time) it unintentionally when I wanted to switch things on the armament panel. Also had that a few times in the Viper, but it wasn't as often.

 

There was the bug report as well about grabbing those controls even when they were hidden, needs checking that is it still a thing or is it gone. As it was bad when you accidentally moved hand through empty space and suddenly pushed throttle to idle or stick fully to one direction. If invisible = no touch reaction. 

 

 

Actually started to check out for some of the solutions for binding the Touch Controllers and at least this was interesting in one of them:

 

AutoOculusTouch can give you:
- index and hand triggers of a Touch, as floats from 0.0 to 1.0.
- thumbstick axes as floats from -1.0 to 1.0.
- all Touch, Remote and XBox buttons (except the Oculus Home button and remote volume buttons).
- all Touch capacitive sensors.
- all Touch capacitive gestures (index pointing and thumbs up for either hand).
- Pitch, Roll and Yaw of both touch controllers and headset in degrees.
- Position of both touch controllers and headset in metres.
- Set continuous or limited time vibration effects of different frequencies and amplitudes on either touch controller.

 

vJoy Support
Normally AutoHotKey can only generate keyboard and mouse events.
vJoy is a driver that emulates one or more virtual joysticks with configurable features. AutoOculusTouch can now send analog axis and digital button values to vJoy. This lets you use Touch (or the remote) as a gamepad in games that support DirectInput.
Note: while most of the controls match an XBox controller, it technically isn't one. Any game that uses XInput directly can't see vJoy. Only DirectInput games will work here.

Edited April 15, 2021 by Fri13

[Fri13]

Quick testing, it was possible to get all buttons and triggers work via VJoy in DCS. But not the right controller mini-stick axis or grip axis (left controller grip is a axis). 

But the problem is that DCS World will register these inputs properly in bindings, but once you are in the game it will override most with the default actions. 

 

But I example managed to get a AV-8B N/A axis registered so that left touch controller mini-stick was a TDC and pressing it down was TDC Action (lock etc). So I could control TV by slewing it with the left touch controller mini-stick and designate targets. 

Problem was as well that AV-8B doesn't have a support for VR controllers ("shocking", as they have stated in patch notes last december to have been implemented support for it). 

 

So for me the Auto_Oculus_Touch -> Autohotkey -> Vjoy (Joystick Gremlin) -> DCSW was a only partially success. 

 

But I believe that any of these will capture the touch controllers input, but simply listen it and reacts to it. So DCSW will still read the real inputs and react to them as well. And that can be the main problem.