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MASSIVE fps drop after update to 2.7


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Thank you for the track, i made a detailed csv of the replay here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EkA0dBrXkHLVsssqXG-C3ZspiTgv-9LbhzHniZ7AUS0/edit?usp=sharing

 

in short

  • FPS: between 40 and 60 FPS. Average 48
  • RAM: ~26 GB was being used 
  • Vram: 8gb, all of it
  • GPU: 60 to 100%, but average 98%
  • CPU: between 11% and ~17%. Average 13%
  • Resolution: 1920x1080 (no VR)

 Settings are a mix of medium-high without antialiasing

Pc is: ryzen3600 / 32gb ddr4 3600mhz / rx480 8gb / dcs and pagefile on nvme ssd

 

Not too bad i guess but the track was quite light. I have issues mostly over cities and large forests, i get 25-to 30fps on helicopters and any amount of antialiasing just cripple the perfomances to unplayable levels.

 

20210619-152047.CSV dcs.log


Edited by MattCri
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I edited my previous post to add my DCS settings.

Here's the gap between our two GPUs, as a reference: https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/AMD-RX-480-vs-Nvidia-GTX-1080-Ti/3634vs3918

 

Unless your setting is already "Off", you should use "Flat" terrain shadows instead of "Default" to gain some FPS.

I don't use Vsync, but a lot of users say they get a better result setting ingame Vsync off and using NVIDIA/AMD Vsync instead.


Edited by Flappie

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ok, just copied your settings an started the track https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NoMqIHR8Qc_e7G6VUpca0EXkS9TnWeGw_gkAce7xYCQ/edit?usp=sharing

 

average 33 fps, goes as low as 27. On my pc flat shadow is a marginal fps increase

UTIL GPU SCLK GPU MCLK GPU TEMP GPU PWR GPU VENTOLA GPU UTIL. VRAM GPU FPS UTIL. CPU UTIL. RAM
100.27.00 1340.02.00 2000.00.00 71.58.00 106.04.00 1274.04.00 8082.44.00 33.17.00 12.04 24.55.00

20210619-170839.CSV

 

 

 

Edit: same run with my settings and flat shadows. Average values. Flat shadows is+6fps on average.

 

UTIL GPU SCLK GPU MCLK GPU TEMP GPU PWR GPU VENTOLA GPU UTIL. VRAM GPU FPS UTIL. CPU UTIL. RAM
97.39.00 1340.39.00 2000.00.00 71.47.00 108.26.00 1290.30.00 8094.03.00 54.24.00 14.17 26.09.00

 

 

No vsync-no fullscreen-flat shadows is the same perfomances within margin of error

UTIL GPU SCLK GPU MCLK GPU TEMP GPU PWR GPU VENTOLA GPU UTIL. VRAM GPU FPS UTIL. CPU UTIL. RAM
100.05.00 1340.00.00 2000.00.00 71.41.00 110.02.00 1293.39.00 8078.59.00 54.48.00 14.11 26.23.00

 

 

settings.jpg


Edited by MattCri
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What is ED's concrete concept to bring flight sim to a stable (minimum) 60 fps level  and corresponding low, consistent frame times (GPU,CPU) @ 1440p (for readable cockpit instruments) so that FLYING a helicopter or a plane will be adequate to ED's claim to a have a "Digital Combat Simulator"?

 

Still experiencing myself and reading about abundantly clear performance issues in view of a great many pc-systems that are not absoutely high-end (e.g. AMD 5950x, Intel Core i9-10900K, Nvidea, GeForce RTX  3090, Radeon AMD  RX 6900 XT) and therefore do not meet the requirements for airworthiness any more. Scaling down resolution in combination with changing options in game or windows settings often does not show the desired effect, either - DCS 2.7 remains more or less a "Slide Projector Simulation".

 

All the more I am very much surprised by ED' declaration that their beta version is now stable - it should inspire much confidence among update losers, shouldn't it?

 

I would realy like to see ED public the specs of their (or one) test pc system as well as its detailed windows and DCS configuration, so that everybody who is willing to fly with stable 60fps / reasonable frametimes @ 1440p can directly change over to a problemless pc hardware. Conveniently ED could also make clear-cut and proofable statements on the performance, namely in form of index numbers, especially when they update the simulator or modules - transparency paired with unambiguousness. They could measure and chart the performance development from update to update, years by year, and compare it to the hardware performance development, too.

 

All endeavours to push complexity by realistic graphics, illumination, AI, weather, radio etc. are great (!), but with about 30 fps @1080p/1440p/2160p simply a no-go(!).

 

If ED is not able to include new features and modules on the current base, why do they not rebuild DCS for a solid base first, keyword Vulcan, to sustain needed capabilty. Instead of that they bring new features, modules, clouds with no information when all those "jigsaw pieces" become an efficient system.

 

ED might be well advised to reconsider their product management (strategy with a competence analysis, technical, go-to-market), but that's only my thoughts and, no doubt, none of my concern.

 

 

 

   

Edited by Fastbreak
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1 hour ago, Fastbreak said:

What is ED's concrete concept to bring flight sim to a stable (minimum) 60 fps level 

Easy. Just turn down your settings. From your sig it looks like you have a very strong CPU but an oldish GPU. But it also looks like you’re running 3 screens one of which is 4K. 
Probably expecting a constant 60fps from a 1080Ti running 4K+ is a bit too much. 

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So after a bit of testing and flying with the latest update, I am happy to say my FPS is actually doing really well in VR.  I discovered that since the update, when recording with OBS, it causes the jittering effect and strong hit to the FPS.  Now do I have an answer why?  Not yet.  I have not tried using OBS outside of VR so others may have something different to say. 

 

I just got off of a flight with the Mig-15 running between 60 and 80 FPS on the Nevada map in a dog fight.  The videos I posted in my prior post on this thread are running a solid 50 to 55 FPS without OBS running.  I re flew the Mig-15 Landing training mission without OBS running and not a single issue.  No jittering/ghosting effect and a solid 50 to 60FPS in VR.  Last night I flew the hind on the Aerobatics Caucasus map with several others flying the hind.  Ran around 40 to 45 FPS on take off with everyone and then jumped to around 50 to 55 while flying formation over the river with another player.  

 

I am really please right now with how it is running.  Now if I can figure out what the performance hit with OBS is, I will be in good shape.  The videos are not really worth recording right now in the current state it captures in (for VR).  By all means, I am still down for optimizations, but I thought this might shed a little light on performance hits for some people.  


Edited by Devil 505
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14 hours ago, Devil 505 said:

I am really please right now with how it is running.  Now if I can figure out what the performance hit with OBS is, I will be in good shape.  The videos are not really worth recording right now in the current state it captures in (for VR).  By all means, I am still down for optimizations, but I thought this might shed a little light on performance hits for some people.  

 

 

i have found on my own that any disk access while the game is running does produce jitters. i had the windows backgrounds set to slide show. when the photo changed it caused jitters. initially it was not known to me. but after some research i found some info about this concerning other games. when i disabled, the issue went away.

this is essentially the same issue.

 

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-start-winpc/windows-10-micro-shutter-or-lag-during-wallpaper

https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/windows-10/fps-drop-or-stutter-after-every-1-min-because-of-background/m-p/1107071


Edited by silverdevil
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6 hours ago, silverdevil said:

 

i have found on my own that any disk access while the game is running does produce jitters. i had the windows backgrounds set to slide show. when the photo changed it caused jitters. initially it was not known to me. but after some research i found some info about this concerning other games. when i disabled, the issue went away.

this is essentially the same issue.

 

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-start-winpc/windows-10-micro-shutter-or-lag-during-wallpaper

https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/windows-10/fps-drop-or-stutter-after-every-1-min-because-of-background/m-p/1107071

 

This is really good to know! I actually have slide show on with a load of DCS backgrounds active now.  I will disable it so see how it improves the performance.  Thanks for the heads up.

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On 6/19/2021 at 5:34 PM, Fastbreak said:

 

I would realy like to see ED public the specs of their (or one) test pc system as well as its detailed windows and DCS configuration, so that everybody who is willing to fly with stable 60fps / reasonable frametimes @ 1440p can directly change over to a problemless pc hardware. Conveniently ED could also make clear-cut and proofable statements on the performance, namely in form of index numbers, especially when they update the simulator or modules - transparency paired with unambiguousness. They could measure and chart the performance development from update to update, years by year, and compare it to the hardware performance development, too.

 

 

 

 

 

   

 

I'm flying with well above 60 FPS (up to 100) with high settings (MSAA 2x) in 4K.

5900X, RTX3080, 64GB RAM (32GB are used max.)

 

I don't get your point. Since when has a modern game to run smoothly in highest settings on mediocre hardware?

I'm fighting to get the latest games running on my hardware for 30 years now. You'd be surprised how challenging it was to get Falcon 3.0 running on a 386DX@33 MHz.

But never would it come to my mind to blame the developer of the software for the performance of my hardware....

 

Edit:

Before I upgraded my hardware I've run DCS on 4K/60FPS with a 1080ti and 4790K. With lower settings of course - but without any problems. That was DCS 2.5 though.


Edited by Hiob

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7 hours ago, Hiob said:

I'm flying with well above 60 FPS (up to 100) with high settings (MSAA 2x) in 4K.

5900X, RTX3080, 64GB RAM (32GB are used max.)

 

Could you post your settings? Similar specs but my FPS is much worse. Thanks!

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@BIGNEWY Can we have a statement from ED on this topic please?

 

Most of the users are reporting at least the same performance with update 2.7 but some still have massive performance drops. Some have managed to get back to a reasonable performance level by lowering their graphic settings, but for some DCS 2.7 is still unplayable!

 

Figuring out my system setup in this thread with @Flappie (thanks for that btw.) and weired behaviour of DCS when changing ingame resolution proofed, that their must be some kind of bug inside 2.7 which does not effect everyone! The issue cannot be the users system specs or setup!:

 

 

On 6/18/2021 at 7:47 AM, B4ron said:

But I found something that may explain why some people see fps drops in 2.7 and the majority doesn't. I set different ingame resolutions and would expect to see a decrease in fps

with increasing resolution:

 

DCS 2.5.6:

1280x768: +30% fps compared to 1600x900

1600x900: native resolution of my monitor

1920x1080: -30% fps compared to 1600x900

 

DCS 2.7.2:

1280x768: same fps as 1600x900

1600x900: native resolution of my monitor

1920x1080: same fps as 1600x900

 

That 2.7 now went stable shows, that ED doesn't really take the problem seriously.

Is there still an efford from ED side to fix that bug or will the loss of customers just be taken into account?


Edited by B4ron
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5 hours ago, exray said:

 

Could you post your settings? Similar specs but my FPS is much worse. Thanks!

 

I made a detailed Benchmark-Thread with Settings and Measurements here: (that was before the Hind/Cyprus update but with clouds)

 

 


Edited by Hiob
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6 minutes ago, Hiob said:

 

 

I made a detailed Benchmark-Thread with Settings and Measurements here: (that was before the Hind/Cyprus update but with clouds)

 

 

 

 

Perfect, thank you! Much appreciated. 

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Last update broke the game for me. Now I have stopped playing DCS. Average FPS across all maps is worse than 2.7 release. How sad..... Especially in Syria (not the new Cyprus area, getting 30 fps at Ramat David, was getting above 60 fps before the last update)

 

Game stutters and freezes when flying over busy airport with a lot of players. 

 

ED should address this issue. 16 pages of posts Jesus Christ.... Bring the performance back to what we had in 2.5. 


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what they really need to do is show us the development on vulcan...this might resolve all issues. Why keep us in the dark on such an important feature?

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They probably do not want to say exactly what is being fixed because of the angry villagers storming the castle when a rivet is out of place. This long winded topic has undoubtedly been abandoned by DCS crew. There are plenty of users out there having reasonable experiences with DCS. Otherwise the future of the sim would be in question. Everyone has conveniently forgotten how the TGP bugs were cleared up in relative secrecy.

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37 minutes ago, Fastbreak said:

The man who is a pessimist before 48 knows too much; if he is an optimist after it he knows too little.”

 

-Mark Twain-

“Never tell the truth to people who are not worthy of it.”
― Mark Twain

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8 hours ago, silverdevil said:

“Never tell the truth to people who are not worthy of it.”
― Mark Twain

 

:worthy:                               

 

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I already posted elsewhere, but 2.7.2.x (latest) is actually performing better than 2.6.x. At first it was horrible, with a big FPS hit.

 

I did everything in the threads... until I forgot to delete my ../Saved Games/DCS folder after backing it up. After that the FPS went back to normal plus some for me. After restoring my minimal settings, HOTAS, livery's and all... it was still good. After copying the ../Saved Games/DCS/Scripts folder from my backup, things went back low FPS. Turned out to be the Tacview and Winwing scripts running in the the Export.lua file. I commented those out and left the SRS script in there.

 

Then I re-run and all good for me now. My test mission F/A-18C -> Instant Action -> NTTR -> Free Flight showed 70 FPS at start and as I head to Vegas for low level testing I was getting 50+ FPS at 100 ft AGL. FPS before 2.7.x update was ~60 FPS start and ~35 FPS low respectfully. Also, Syria I'm getting 70+ at altitude and around 50 low level. I consider that's not bad for my older hardware (listed in sig).

 

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Up until very recently, I was flying DCS in VR with a Reverb G2 on an i5 4690K overclocked to 4.4 GHz with a GTX 1080 (8GB of RAM).  I could pretty much lock my frame rate at 45 fps.

I built a new PC with a 5800X cpu and 128 GB of 3200 RAM, but due to supply and pricing, I am still using the GTX 1080 gpu.

The new PC didn't buy me even 1 fps, but it did make my system far more stable with me running SRS, Voice Attack/Vaicom Pro, Discord, and a Simshaker jetseat.

After a recent patch, I have had to dramatically reduce my graphics settings and lock my frame rate to 30 fps by choosing the 60 fps setting and forcing motion reprojection. 

Add in the Marianas map, and my fps drops to 25 and lower.

 

I own every aircraft and terrain except the JF-17. But if this is the future of DCS, I am out of here. I don't need a game that runs like crap on a near top of the line system. I don't even think a better gpu will make much of a difference other than getting more VRAM. It is a sad day for me when FS2020 looks and runs better than DCS in VR on a Reverb G2. I have other games/sims that run fantastic with my system both in VR and on the flat panel monitor. FS2020 is a fairly heavy load, but DCS is the only game/sim that tanks my system. If this is their idea of futureproofing their game, they need to understand that it still needs to be playable in the short term.

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On 6/30/2021 at 11:04 PM, streakeagle said:

Up until very recently, I was flying DCS in VR with a Reverb G2 on an i5 4690K overclocked to 4.4 GHz with a GTX 1080 (8GB of RAM).  I could pretty much lock my frame rate at 45 fps.

I built a new PC with a 5800X cpu and 128 GB of 3200 RAM, but due to supply and pricing, I am still using the GTX 1080 gpu.

The new PC didn't buy me even 1 fps, but it did make my system far more stable with me running SRS, Voice Attack/Vaicom Pro, Discord, and a Simshaker jetseat.

After a recent patch, I have had to dramatically reduce my graphics settings and lock my frame rate to 30 fps by choosing the 60 fps setting and forcing motion reprojection. 

Add in the Marianas map, and my fps drops to 25 and lower.

 

I own every aircraft and terrain except the JF-17. But if this is the future of DCS, I am out of here. I don't need a game that runs like crap on a near top of the line system. I don't even think a better gpu will make much of a difference other than getting more VRAM. It is a sad day for me when FS2020 looks and runs better than DCS in VR on a Reverb G2. I have other games/sims that run fantastic with my system both in VR and on the flat panel monitor. FS2020 is a fairly heavy load, but DCS is the only game/sim that tanks my system. If this is their idea of futureproofing their game, they need to understand that it still needs to be playable in the short term.

So something I discovered was the performance hits have been coming a lot from OBS and the new PIMAX tool.  I had to revert back to the last PIMAX tool because the new one blocks PIMAX in steam VR.  I found something pretty amazing someone mentioned about OBS, while recording disable the preview window.  Right click on it and disable the view.  Really helps with VR FPS.  Another one I found today with the new Marianas map was referenced by the Grim Reapers.  Turn the shadows to flat in the DCS settings options.  Helped significantly.  Also update to the newest NVIDIA drivers.  Below is my first flight in the Huey over the Marianas in VR with the PIMAX.  Absolutely a blast and ran a lot better than what I thought it would.

 

 

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Ok, I finally found out now what causes the fps loss at least on my system:

 

1. Reflections in the canopy glass (and possibly on other glass surfaces too) that have been introduced with 2.7. When I switch to external view or emergency release the canopy, the performance increases immediately. Changing to a clear class mod brings no improvement, so the textures cannot be the issue. I hope that there will be an option soon to switch that off!

 

2. The new clouds. When I change the clouds in the mission editor to "nothing" there's no difference in fps. But when I reduce clouds density to 0, there's an immediate performance gain. I assume that the new clouds textures overflow my VRAM, since without clouds the VRAM usage is at about the same level as in 2.5 with clouds. An option to switch back to the old clouds textures or to reduce textures quality to lower than "low" would possibly help a lot of people.

 

These 2 effects have about the same performance impact for me. If I eliminate both I'm back on the performance that I had in 2.5.6.

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21 minutes ago, B4ron said:

1. Reflections in the canopy glass (and possibly on other glass surfaces too) that have been introduced with 2.7. When I switch to external view or emergency release the canopy, the performance increases immediately. Changing to a clear class mod brings no improvement, so the textures cannot be the issue. I hope that there will be an option soon to switch that off!

Yes, i believe this is correct

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