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Any thoughts on the Viggen?


rkk01

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22 hours ago, Noctrach said:

I'd wager a pretty safe guess that any lack of sales would stem from the Viggen being a relatively unknown, hyper-specialised striker with a very specific mission profile, moreso than people's fear of Swedish. 😄

 

 

Agree. I also think, this has more to do with the Viggen being a niche aircraft, that not many people know a lot  about or what exact capabilities it brings .Even within the cold war - interested group it still seems to remain something of an outlier, compared to the omni-present F-5 and Mig-21.

 

Like in all other aircraft, what you have to learn is which switches / button you need to press to achieve a certain goal. Whether the switch is labeled french,english, swedish makes little difference for me, at least when we are talking about aircraft with a system structure level like the viggen.
Its not as if you have to programm 20 pages of FMC in swedish as preflight.


Kind regards,
Snappy

 


Edited by Snappy
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Hi, if a Viggen "freshman" pilot's opinion may be of any value at all, then...
She seems to be worth every penny. (Someone stole my Rb05 controller, though! There's only some kind of stump of the controller sticking out of the console. Damned thieves!)
Anyway, you just can't go wrong with aircraft so advanced that it's got Automatisk Fart Kontroll... I wish my bro had had such system when we were kids!

 

Seriously now, I think it's the most "specific" aircraft in DCS of all I've got so far. An antonym to Hornet. A very specific philosophy, doctrine and design. It may be bad, it may be good, depending on what you're looking for.


In terms of sheer module quality - it's at least very good (I'm new so I prefer to stick to cursory words), however she definitely looks great - inside and outside, she sounds great+ ("Great+ Pro Definitive Edition") and has a few absolutely riveting systems on board... "Inca pictogram HUD" of sorts and many others. These I'm currently trying to figure out. Absolutely fascinating plane. I think for its time Viggen was an ultra-modern aircraft, I'm really humbled by the engineering put into it.

 

The manual is honest/solid, and while it seems a bit succinct ("mere" 400- pages), I think it's because she may actually be a bit simpler than it appears at the first glance.

 

Swedish is not a problem, you don't have to read poems in Swedish, just learn "TILL" ("ON"), "FRÅN" ("OFF") and a few other words ("fart" included). No sweat.

 


Edited by scoobie
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Am 22.4.2021 um 21:05 schrieb Scrofa:

I own it but honestly the lack of english cockpit is a bit of a bum and has prevented me to play a lot with it. Probably has made a lot of simmers to overlook it and it is a shame, because is an amazing module of an amazing and really special aircraft, arguably the most exotic in the DCS stable.

 

If it doesn't put you off, I'd recommend anyone to give it a try.

I am one of the very few germans that do not live in sweden, but learn swedish. But... It is about a dozen words.

However, it is never too late to learn swedish, it's a pretty nice country. 

 

However I think that if people want a striker, they probably go for the A-10. If people want AA, they will probably go for the 14, 15, 16, 18 or Jeff. Or FC3. If they want multirole, there is the 16, 18 or Jeff. 

However, if you want a fast decidated striker which excels in the anti ship role and low level strikes, is easy and fun to fly without 1000s of buttons, menus and stuff that is extremely well made, then the Viggen is your choice. Only complicated thing is that computer, but I got a sheet for it to remember that stuff. 

As other people said: It is rather unknown, and it fits people who love fast strikers, especially low level. And anti ship of course.

There's a big dogfight community here (see the F-16 discussion thread, I sometimes think that almost all the people flying F-16 are only here for dogfighting), and a big part of the rest is here for multirole aircraft. Strikers are few. That is the reason why it is not so common imo. Even if almost every DCS swede I know seems to have one... 

So if you guys really think about the Viggen, but swedish blocks you from that... I am sure someone will come up with a translation.

Just ask. It is as simple as enabling the cockpit help.


Edited by TobiasA
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I got back into the viggen today now that the hotpatch has fixed the CTD in multi-player. Man I've missed this plane. Nothing is more fun than planning your route in, popping up, dropping ordinance and getting back to the deck while the ground units attempt to fire at you.

A very specialized airframe indeed. But learn how to master its specialty and the rewards are very gratifying.

TJ

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I dunno any Swedish and most of the time the cockpit text is either too small or too blurry to read, especially on F/A-18C, I basically memorise all the labels. So no biggie here.


Edited by VFGiPJP

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Picked up the Viggen in the sale 👍

Certainly quick - tried it out low level in some of the Lebanese / Syrian valleys... seems to have a real sense of mass and momentum rather just velocity

 

Probably ought to work through the tutorials though... first flight was switch through the obvious electrical power and fuel switches, start up and taxi out... switching the hud on would have been helpful 🤔


also need to look at g limits - pulling up from Mach 1.x at wave height into a vertical climb did something very bad to the airframe 😮


Edited by rkk01
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1 hour ago, rkk01 said:

also need to look at g limits - pulling up from Mach 1.x at wave height into a vertical climb did something very bad to the airframe 😮

 

The Viggen has rather fragile wings. You don't want to change pitch when using the 3rd afterburner stage, or they'll easily come off. 😉 I only use it while flying in a straight line.

Oh, and avoid negative G's as well, or the pilot will faint quickly.

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It is a great jet for a very particular type of mission - one pass, haul ass. A positive is that the module is very Mission oriented.
You make a plan and stick to it! Following the waypoints one by one... the excitement when you see the target waypoint coming up, knowing
there is only 1 chance (or 2 in some cases) to get it right. Very rewarding to follow through and get back to base (or roadbase) according to plan.
I guess that is also a negative for some players who rather want to loiter around as they wish and "plinking" vehicles of opportunity.

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4 hours ago, Flappie said:

 

The Viggen has rather fragile wings. You don't want to change pitch when using the 3rd afterburner stage, or they'll easily come off. 😉 I only use it while flying in a straight line.

Oh, and avoid negative G's as well, or the pilot will faint quickly.

I'd actually almost say the opposite... it's not that it's fragile as such. In my experience it seems more that you need very little pull to get high G numbers when you're going fast. And it doesn't limit or even warn you that you're pushing the limit.

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To quote "startrekmike" from Stream forum, responding to a question I asked. A small contribution if not already covered by the others above:

Quote

The first thing I think about when looking at your list of potential aircraft is the quality of the module itself combined with the quality/track record of the developer who made it. At the moment, only the Viggen is feature complete and devoid of functionality issues. Likewise, Heatblur has a strong track record and has not really stopped supporting the module nor have they had any major lapses in support in the past. This is a important factor that shouldn't be disregarded to quickly. The Viggen may not be everyone's cup of tea but it is difficult to deny that it is a strong, well made module that has received its due in terms of developer support.

Quote

Despite popular notions, the Viggen is most certainly not "multi-role" in the way we currently use that term. The specific version we have in DCS (the AJS-37) was given two major missions by the Swedish Air Force. The first is as a low-altitude, high-speed strike fighter. In this role, you would follow a very specific route in a very specific way to get to a target, release all your weapons in one pass, and leave as quickly as possible. The second role is anti-ship. Originally it was thought that it would destroy Soviet landing ships during the Cold War but that has since stopped being a major issue.

 

It is important to understand that the AJS-37 isn't really shouldn't be operated like DCS players might handle the A-10, Harrier, or a modern multi-role like the Viper, Hornet, or JF-17. Its navigation system is deeply integrated with its weapons control system and all of it is focused on heading to a pre-planned point where you will drop ALL munitions in ONE pass and then head back home. You are not going to loiter around looking for targets or anything like that. You are going to be hitting large static targets (enemy installations, large clusters of inactive vehicles, etc) or boats and not a whole lot else. Some find the Viggen too rigid but I think its specific role and specific method to do that role give it a lot of character and force you to really fly the plane on its terms. That can be satisfying if you let it be so.

Quote

If you like high-speed, low altitude flight, the Viggen is pretty much purpose built for that. It can especially be fun at night when you have only your ground radar to tell you if you are about to hit something.

If you are like myself, who played that MB-339A mission, that fly low and fast to "kill" a CGN, to death, this is THE "Big Boy" plane you are looking for.


Edited by VFGiPJP
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I was reluctant to get the Viggen, but it is a jet I keep coming back to for low level interdiction fun. It fills quite a similar role to the Tornado, Jaguar and other low level strike aircraft of the cold war. One pass and haul ass. It sounds like a boring mission but actually it is exciting flying below the tree line, trusting your Ternav is in order to put you at the right point to pop up and drop ordnance.

 

Also the anti-ship capabilities are incredible. Flying as a two ship low level across the waves, sorting targets and unleashing the RB15f un unison to overwhelm the enemy CIWS... great stuff.

 

For air to air, not BVR capable but can be fun in a cold war era furball. Note the AJS37 Viggen doesn't not have a built in cannon or chaff/flare, these take up pylons.

 

 


Edited by Sideburns
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The only issue I have so far is all the gauges are in metric. If you have flown too many American hardware, this is something you may have to adjust to.

VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants -- this is how I fly. We do not fly at treetop height, we fly between trees(TM)

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCc9BDi-STaqgWsjNiHbW0fA

My simple missions: https://forum.dcs.world/topic/284071-vr-flight-guy-in-pj-pants-simple-missions/

NSRI - National Strategy Research Institution, a fictional organisation based on wordplay of Strategic Naval Research Institution (SNRI), a fictional institution appears in Mobile Suit Gundam UC timeline.

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1 hour ago, VFGiPJP said:

The only issue I have so far is all the gauges are in metric. If you have flown too many American hardware, this is something you may have to adjust to.

It won't take long to get used to it. It does require some extra work to coordinate your flight with other Western jets that use feet, knots, and nautical miles. 

 

I use Mach to match airspeed with other jets.

 

Some quick mental conversions I use for altitude and distance are: 

  • 300 m is about 1000 ft (exact is 304.8 m = 1000 ft)
  • 2 km is about 1 nmi (closer to 1.85 km but 2 is good enough for most situations)

 

 


Edited by Machalot
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"Subsonic is below Mach 1, supersonic is up to Mach 5. Above Mach 5 is hypersonic. And reentry from space, well, that's like Mach a lot."

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Thanks. Sure it is not “show stopping”, it is just, well, an issue.

VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants -- this is how I fly. We do not fly at treetop height, we fly between trees(TM)

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCc9BDi-STaqgWsjNiHbW0fA

My simple missions: https://forum.dcs.world/topic/284071-vr-flight-guy-in-pj-pants-simple-missions/

NSRI - National Strategy Research Institution, a fictional organisation based on wordplay of Strategic Naval Research Institution (SNRI), a fictional institution appears in Mobile Suit Gundam UC timeline.

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Till=on Fran=off

 

That should be enough Swedish to get you going.  I was intimidated at first, but it really boils down to simply knowing procedures and where to find what control you need.  For example, I start the Mi-8 from memory, not even reading the switches.  With English cockpit, which I do not really use, anymore.  Think of an aircraft you use a lot.  Do you read every switch you flip?  I would wager you do not.  You just go through the procedure.  

 

I got the Viggen because it has a mission profile that seemed exciting to me.  After I got it, I started looking into its developement and history.  I suggest you do the same.  It is pretty amazing.  I just wish the Viggen were more popular.  Oh well...

 

Sorry if I seem to have necroed this post.

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1 hour ago, shake307 said:

I just wish the Viggen were more popular.

I have seen a number of new Viggen pilots on the Hoggit servers since the 2.7 patch.  And the other day there were 4 Viggens on AO at the same time.

"Subsonic is below Mach 1, supersonic is up to Mach 5. Above Mach 5 is hypersonic. And reentry from space, well, that's like Mach a lot."

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18 hours ago, Machalot said:

I have seen a number of new Viggen pilots on the Hoggit servers since the 2.7 patch.  And the other day there were 4 Viggens on AO at the same time.

it does important work on the PGAW Hoggit server, and also shines quite well in the less advanced era of Syria At War 🙂

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18 minutes ago, LazyBoot said:

it does important work on the PGAW Hoggit server, and also shines quite well in the less advanced era of Syria At War 🙂

I agree. The anti-ship mission is really valuable on PGAW.  I have only played SAW once, but I liked not getting smoked by MiG-31s and Fox 3s.

"Subsonic is below Mach 1, supersonic is up to Mach 5. Above Mach 5 is hypersonic. And reentry from space, well, that's like Mach a lot."

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Am 3.5.2021 um 00:26 schrieb Flappie:

 

The Viggen has rather fragile wings. You don't want to change pitch when using the 3rd afterburner stage, or they'll easily come off. 😉 I only use it while flying in a straight line.

Oh, and avoid negative G's as well, or the pilot will faint quickly.

 

You guys actually broke something on the Viggen?

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1 minute ago, TobiasA said:

 

You guys actually broke something on the Viggen?

 

Who are you talking to?

I've always found the Viggen had fragile wings, that's all. After all, the real aircraft had fragile wings too, at least in the 70s.

Don't accept indie game testing requests from friends in Discord. Ever.

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vor 47 Minuten schrieb Flappie:

 

Who are you talking to?

I've always found the Viggen had fragile wings, that's all. After all, the real aircraft had fragile wings too, at least in the 70s.

I was just wondering, since I have lost a flap due to ground contact but I have never lost any bigger parts or structural damage by pulling too hard.

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