Martin2487 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 I found that the SA-10 is not able to shoot down an AGM-88C missile if it is fired in PB mode. SA-10 (S-300PS) is a system that undoubtedly has the ability to fire anti-radar missiles. If the HARM is fired with TOO (SP) mode, it is almost always shot down. I am aware that PB mode HARM creates a different trajectory missile. The missile descends to the emitter at an angle of about 23 to 25 degrees. Which is not out of range of elevation angle tracking radar (30N6). The elevation angle at which the TR 30N6 antenna is able to scan is +/- 60 ° degrees. One AGM-88C HARM missile was fired from the F/A-18 aircraft in PB mode (the missile was set to perform a loft (pullup HARM). The target that was chosen was SR 5N66M (Clam Shell). The mission had a set function. Harm was detected by SA-10 at a distance of about 31 nm. However, the rotation of the antenna in the direction of arrival of the target missile TR 30N6 occurred only a few moments before the missile hit. The TR 30N6 antenna was oriented in the direction of arrival for some time because it had previously detected an aircraft that fired a HARM. Then, although the SA-10 sensors detected an approaching anti-radar missile, the antenna was rotated to the default position. The rotation of the antenna in the direction of the arrival of the Missile HARM did not occur until a few moments before the radar hit. The test mission includes one F/A-18C aircraft, and 1x SA-10 (S-300 PS) in the following composition: 1x CP 54K6, 1 x SR 5N66M (Clam Shell), 1x SR 64H6E (Big Bird), 1 x TR 30N6 (Flap Lid A), 4x LN 5P85C. Map: Caucasus. Skill SA-10: Excellent I consider described behavior under very strange. I think that the parameters of the missile's arrival are not beyond the capabilities of the SA-10. SA-10 AGM-88C PB mode.trk DCS-SA-10 PB mode AGM-88C.zip.acmi 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 Have you forced the alert status of the S300 to 'RED'? Can't be certain but I suspect the reaction time may have something to do with this. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin2487 Posted April 20, 2021 Author Share Posted April 20, 2021 Yes, I switched to the tactical commander slot and set the RED status for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetMePickThat Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 I have a similar issue when using the S-300PS from the High Digits SAMs mod. Looks like something changed internally with respect to missile targeting. I'll take a closer look (if I can, that is, with that LUA masking nonsense). 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFA41_Lion Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 is "engage air weapons = on" set in the advanced unit actions in the mission editor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorianR666 Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 i confirm this there is something wrong with target prioritization CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 1600X GPU: AMD RX 580 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetMePickThat Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 This is clearly a HARM issue, as the problem occurs not only with the base S-300PS and SA-15, but also with SAMs from the HighDigitSAMs Mod and with Skynet. I would love to dig into the HARM files to see what they changed, but since they locked it this isn't an option unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 They may have reduced the RCS. That would reduce the reaction time. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raidhen Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 (edited) SA-15 are engaging HARMs (POS or HAS) but not the SA-10 (only in HAS mode), something with the elevation range of the radar ? Edited April 23, 2021 by Raidhen Raidhen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetMePickThat Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Raidhen said: SA-15 are engaging HARMs (POS or HAS) but not the SA-10 (only in HAS mode), something with the elevation range of the radar ? The SA-15 isn't engaging HARMs on my end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad_Shell Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 (edited) 31 minutes ago, LetMePickThat said: The SA-15 isn't engaging HARMs on my end. Set their "alert state" to red, otherwise their reaction time is too long to shoot the HARMs. Also, the higher their AI level, the faster they react. Edited April 23, 2021 by Mad_Shell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetMePickThat Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Mad_Shell said: Set their "alert state" to red, otherwise their reaction time is too long to shoot the HARMs. Also, the higher their AI level, the faster they react. I know that. Still no difference on my end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raidhen Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 21 minutes ago, LetMePickThat said: I know that. Still no difference on my end. Are you using Skynet IADS or another script ? Raidhen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetMePickThat Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 23 minutes ago, Raidhen said: Are you using Skynet IADS or another script ? Duh. I write SAM mods for DCS, I (kinda) know how to troubleshoot a recalcitrant SA-15. For some reason, it just doesn't fire. I'll perform a full repair and try on another scen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raidhen Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 I can confirm that SA-10 are engaging HARMs too but their effectiveness is affect by the speed of the missile at close range. With the new HARM's modes you can defeat them easily with the initial loft which provide high terminal speed. I don't know if this behavior is accurate and represent the real specs of the SA-10. Raidhen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin2487 Posted April 24, 2021 Author Share Posted April 24, 2021 23 hours ago, VFA41_Lion said: is "engage air weapons = on" set in the advanced unit actions in the mission editor? I tried it but, unfortunately, without effect. The SA-10 did not fire on HARM. 10 hours ago, GGTharos said: They may have reduced the RCS. That would reduce the reaction time. I don't know if they modified the RCS AGM-88C. But even in PB mode, HARM is detected by SA-10 at a distance of about 31 nm. If fired in TOO / SP mode, the SA-10 will shoot it down. As far as I know, the AGM-88C has RCS set to 0.05m² in DCS. 5 hours ago, Raidhen said: I can confirm that SA-10 are engaging HARMs too but their effectiveness is affect by the speed of the missile at close range. With the new HARM's modes you can defeat them easily with the initial loft which provide high terminal speed. I don't know if this behavior is accurate and represent the real specs of the SA-10. This bug report is about a HARM that was fired at maximum range at high altitude (see Tacview in the first post). Terminal speed was 617 kts TAS, M 0.93, pitch 25 °. The HARM was definitely not outside the parameters of the SA-10. The SA-10 certainly has no problem shooting at supersonic targets. As I mentioned even though the HARM was not fired it was detected at a distance of about 31 NM. I don't think there will be a problem with the acquisition time. The TR 30N6 has an acquisition time of 6 seconds. I have noticed this problem with other systems that have anti radiation missile capability. It will still check it and possibly process a separate bug report. Finally, please stick to the topic. This thread is about SA-10. SA-15 shoots down HARM in PB mode (tested). You just need to set the skill of the unit to excellent (this affects the acquisition time). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raidhen Posted April 24, 2021 Share Posted April 24, 2021 1 hour ago, Martin2487 said: This bug report is about a HARM that was fired at maximum range at high altitude (see Tacview in the first post). Terminal speed was 617 kts TAS, M 0.93, pitch 25 °. The HARM was definitely not outside the parameters of the SA-10. The SA-10 certainly has no problem shooting at supersonic targets. As I mentioned even though the HARM was not fired it was detected at a distance of about 31 NM. I don't think there will be a problem with the acquisition time. The TR 30N6 has an acquisition time of 6 seconds. I have noticed this problem with other systems that have anti radiation missile capability. It will still check it and possibly process a separate bug report. Finally, please stick to the topic. This thread is about SA-10. SA-15 shoots down HARM in PB mode (tested). You just need to set the skill of the unit to excellent (this affects the acquisition time). You can run a test in RUK sub-mode which has a flat trajectory, if you manage to keep your HARMs above M 1.00 within 6sec before impact the SA-10 will never engage it. Raidhen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter22 Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 On 4/20/2021 at 4:23 PM, Martin2487 said: I found that the SA-10 is not able to shoot down an AGM-88C missile if it is fired in PB mode. SA-10 (S-300PS) is a system that undoubtedly has the ability to fire anti-radar missiles. If the HARM is fired with TOO (SP) mode, it is almost always shot down. I am aware that PB mode HARM creates a different trajectory missile. The missile descends to the emitter at an angle of about 23 to 25 degrees. Which is not out of range of elevation angle tracking radar (30N6). The elevation angle at which the TR 30N6 antenna is able to scan is +/- 60 ° degrees. One AGM-88C HARM missile was fired from the F/A-18 aircraft in PB mode (the missile was set to perform a loft (pullup HARM). The target that was chosen was SR 5N66M (Clam Shell). The mission had a set function. Harm was detected by SA-10 at a distance of about 31 nm. However, the rotation of the antenna in the direction of arrival of the target missile TR 30N6 occurred only a few moments before the missile hit. The TR 30N6 antenna was oriented in the direction of arrival for some time because it had previously detected an aircraft that fired a HARM. Then, although the SA-10 sensors detected an approaching anti-radar missile, the antenna was rotated to the default position. The rotation of the antenna in the direction of the arrival of the Missile HARM did not occur until a few moments before the radar hit. The test mission includes one F/A-18C aircraft, and 1x SA-10 (S-300 PS) in the following composition: 1x CP 54K6, 1 x SR 5N66M (Clam Shell), 1x SR 64H6E (Big Bird), 1 x TR 30N6 (Flap Lid A), 4x LN 5P85C. Map: Caucasus. Skill SA-10: Excellent I consider described behavior under very strange. I think that the parameters of the missile's arrival are not beyond the capabilities of the SA-10. SA-10 AGM-88C PB mode.trk 239.24 kB · 2 downloads DCS-SA-10 PB mode AGM-88C.zip.acmi 86.08 kB · 1 download Interesting!!!!! My Rig:I7 4790K OC to 4.5 GHz .Memory ram 16GB 64 Bit MOB Asus Maximus hero VII Nvidia NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 T Asus Monitor 4K at 3840x2160 Windos 10 64-bit on SDD 500 and DCS on separate SSD drive. Thrustmaster Hotas Warthog CH pro pedals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raidhen Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 The problem is solved with today patch. Raidhen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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