Late Activation for Static Units

[Kazyn]

YES! Absolutely! While we're at it (and totally not relevanty), how about some functionality to access/modify assets in the warehouses outside of the mission editor?

[Ironwulf]

A static activate trigger already exists. Agree with those that say a static deactivate would also be needed.

[Exorcet]

Would I use this for static objects like vehicles and buildings? Probably at some point.

 

Would I use this for the static effects like Big Smoke, etc? Very yes.

[DoctorNo]

OMG look at that skewed vote, now you're gonna have to do it ED! 

Edited April 23, 2021 by DoctorNo

[unknown]

Cool, that was exactly what i was looking for an hour ago! 

I was hoping to populate my airfield a little with such a function after choosing my plane slot, so a late activation/deactivation function for static objects would be cool! Or you add the option that all client planes are loaded as static as long as they are not occupied by a player. 

 

6 hours ago, Ironwulf said:

A static activate trigger already exists. Agree with those that say a static deactivate would also be needed.

But what exactly does this do? If i add a static plane on the ramp, add a trigger zone and a ground unit, set up a trigger if ground unit is in zone -> static activate -> the static plane is there from the mission beginning and nothing happens after the ground unit enters the trigger zone....  

[shagrat]

10 hours ago, StevanJ said:

I voted no, Unless i can turn off the static too, Id rather use a Dynamic as theyre more flexible an asset.

...more flexible and require lots more ressources and CPU to check reaction to threats, movement/pathfinding (even if you don't move them, the check needs to be done each cycle) and so on. Statics simply sit there and need a LOS check and hit/damage tracking. Having every cow, crewman, tent, factory, shelter, windsock, building, comm tower, etc. have pathfinding checks and threat reaction, doesn't make a lot of sense.  

7 hours ago, Ironwulf said:

A static activate trigger already exists. Agree with those that say a static deactivate would also be needed.

And how does that work? I mean we can't set statics to late activation, so the static is active from mission start and the trigger doesn't do anything it seems.

[StevanJ]

1 hour ago, shagrat said:

...more flexible and require lots more ressources and CPU to check reaction to threats, movement/pathfinding (even if you don't move them, the check needs to be done each cycle) and so on. Statics simply sit there and need a LOS check and hit/damage tracking. Having every cow, crewman, tent, factory, shelter, windsock, building, comm tower, etc. have pathfinding checks and threat reaction, doesn't make a lot of sense.  

And how does that work? I mean we can't set statics to late activation, so the static is active from mission start and the trigger doesn't do anything it seems.

Yeah, thats my point. In what instance would we ever need or want to spawn a static? They require such little resources, that you may as well include the static from the start of the mission..

Im guessing that a late activation would benefit those who want to show the unit on the map.
But you could just as easily have a smoke marker, or even a drone do the work for you.
Im not knocking the idea, i just think its pointless.

Im happy if others want them, but for me, Ive never made a mission where ive needed to 'late activate' a static.
Id much rather we got better looking static ground assets for the helicopters to shoot at-

ANd id rather we had a 'respawn' unit, than late activate..

 

Edited April 23, 2021 by StevanJ

[StevanJ]

4 hours ago, Exorcet said:

Would I use this for static objects like vehicles and buildings? Probably at some point.

 

Would I use this for the static effects like Big Smoke, etc? Very yes.

You can spawn smoke at any time you wish during a mission.. The first second- The minute you land..

11 hours ago, Von Thrud said:

All unit / statics need a   REMOVE function whereby the undamaged  / damaged / destroyed iteration of it is gone from game map and game memory, for those larger missions

 

This is VERY important.. Good shout!

[sirrah]

In a kind response to your posts :

 

25 minutes ago, StevanJ said:

Yeah, thats my point. In what instance would we ever need or want to spawn a static? They require such little resources, that you may as well include the static from the start of the mission..
 

 

Well, for instance:

• Aircraft carrier, bow for instance, filled with parked aircraft (which have to be static objects) at start of the mission and than, after your mission, return to an empty flight deck
• Start on a platform surrounded by ground personnel (which are static objects) and when arriving back after the mission, that personnel is in different positions or gone

and there are probably a lot more situations I haven't even thought about

 

 

21 minutes ago, StevanJ said:

You can spawn smoke at any time you wish during a mission.. The first second- The minute you land..

 

 

Nope you can't.

Smoke markers, yes

Smoke effects (such as "Big smoke with fire") can't be activated/deactivated

 

[StevanJ]

9 minutes ago, sirrah said:

In a kind response to your posts :

 

 

Well, for instance:

• Aircraft carrier, bow for instance, filled with parked aircraft (which have to be static objects) at start of the mission and than, after your mission, return to an empty flight deck
• Start on a platform surrounded by ground personnel (which are static objects) and when arriving back after the mission, that personnel is in different positions or gone

and there are probably a lot more situations I haven't even thought about

 

 

 

Nope you can't.

Smoke markers, yes

Smoke effects (such as "Big smoke with fire") can't be activated/deactivated

 

Maybe im giving away my trade secrets here- But why wouldnt you use Dynamics, and actually have the aircraft take off around you? And do their own mission?
Same with infantry- Static infantry is a bit 'quick fix' when if you use dynamic infantry you can make the Airfield come alive?

Big smoke with Fire -
 

 

[sirrah]

16 minutes ago, StevanJ said:

Maybe im giving away my trade secrets here- But why wouldnt you use Dynamics, and actually have the aircraft take off around you? And do their own mission?
Same with infantry- Static infantry is a bit 'quick fix' when if you use dynamic infantry you can make the Airfield come alive?

 

I can think of at least two reasons now:

1. Adding dozens of AI traffic and background combat units, will have impact on mission performance. Of course you need some, to create immersion, but.. well that brings me to my next point:
2. How would you create something like this:

• 

and make it so, that once you return to the ship, all, or some of the aircraft from the bow are gone? If these where all moving AI aircraft that would cause unnecessary strain on your mission. On top of that, currently you can't recreate this without scripting and you can't recreate this with actual AI aircraft. (you can only recreate this with static object aircraft)

 

or:

 

• 

Have this guy stand here when you start the mission and have him gone (or somewhere else) when you return. Currently you can't because you can't activate/deactivate him and, as it's a static object, it can't move..

 

These are obviously just two examples, but obviously there are many more.

 

 

 

16 minutes ago, StevanJ said:

Big smoke with Fire -
 

 

 

 

 

Not sure about that YT video you posted, as it doesn't provide any explanation or background info, but as far as I know, something like this is currently only possible via scripting.

 

I think most DCS users (myself included) are not familiar with scripting, nor do they want to invest time in learning it. The ME user interface makes mission editing easy to use for everyone.

 

 

[StevanJ]

17 minutes ago, sirrah said:

 

I can think of at least two reasons now:

1. Adding dozens of AI traffic and background combat units, will have impact on mission performance. Of course you need some, to create immersion, but.. well that brings me to my next point:
2. How would you create something like this:

• 

and make it so, that once you return to the ship, all, or some of the aircraft from the bow are gone? If these where all moving AI aircraft that would cause unnecessary strain on your mission. On top of that, currently you can't recreate this without scripting and you can't recreate this with actual AI aircraft. (you can only recreate this with static object aircraft)

 

or:

 

• 

Have this guy stand here when you start the mission and have him gone (or somewhere else) when you return. Currently you can't because you can't activate/deactivate him and, as it's a static object, it can't move..

 

These are obviously just two examples, but obviously there are many more.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not sure about that YT video you posted, as it doesn't provide any explanation or background info, but as far as I know, something like this is currently only possible via scripting.

 

I think most DCS users (myself included) are not familiar with scripting, nor do they want to invest time in learning it. The ME user interface makes mission editing easy to use for everyone.

 

 

I dont use scripts (dont want to maintain the mission)

Unit inside zone> Effect smoke (Huge Fire and Smoke)
Unit outside zone> Effect smoke - Stop

So in this video here- my first campaign, You can see at the start the Humvee's moving around and the men behind the chopper, They are dynamic units that have their own set of instructions and will (in some cases) do their own thing randomly, Once the humvee reaches the parked plane, theres a small wait (while the pilot you cant see- jumps into the F16, and then the humvee turns around and returns to the Sergeants' Mess.
The same goes for the Humvee behind the Huey, it waits until the Huey is clear, then the Humvee returns also to the mess, and the two infantry return to their guard post.
Creating a dynamic effect like this only took a couple of hours. But in the Campaign- It actually makes the airfield come alive.
Youre sat in the cockpit and youre seeing things actually happen from the cockpit instead of looking at a static.

If i were doing a carrier, Id either start on the cat and have two squads behind me to follow, or have two squads ahead of me, and start cold on the ramp, Id run a test- Setting them all off, and then watch them come in, and see where they move to. Id then put a few statics in the spots where the FA18's dont go near (usually the holding, or parking areas).
Ive never needed to remove a static, and a dynamic- is so flexible, i can just send it somewhere else- Or deactivate it.

Late activation of a static, would mean 0 for me, unless i could remove it. But i still wouldnt use the static, unless i had to.

[StolenPen]

Yes please! And groups as others have said.

[sirrah]

36 minutes ago, StevanJ said:

I dont use scripts (dont want to maintain the mission)

Unit inside zone> Effect smoke (Huge Fire and Smoke)
Unit outside zone> Effect smoke - Stop

 

Fair enough. I didn't know this was already possible.

 

As for my other two points (performance and creating a filled carrier deck), you haven't convinced me.  

What you show in your YT video: 

36 minutes ago, StevanJ said:

have two squads ahead of me, and start cold on the ramp

 

Does not even come close to what I suggested. A little exaggerated, but I want to be able to leave the carrier deck like this (note the blocked stern):

 

And return to this:

 

• AI aircraft can't be placed on these spots
• And even if AI units could be placed there, having all of them actually take off while you're gone, would cause unnecessary performance impact on your mission 

 

Also, I think you're missing my point on my static personnel example. Ground personnel (so these guys):

 

are only available as static objects. They can't actually move. They are not "dynamic units" (as you describe them). I wish they were, but they aren't.

 

Edited April 23, 2021 by sirrah

[Ducksen]

Yes!

Static smoke and fire is a good example.

[StevanJ]

1 hour ago, sirrah said:

 

Fair enough. I didn't know this was already possible.

 

As for my other two points (performance and creating a filled carrier deck), you haven't convinced me.  

What you show in your YT video: 

 

Does not even come close to what I suggested. A little exaggerated, but I want to be able to leave the carrier deck like this (note the blocked stern):

 

And return to this:

 

• AI aircraft can't be placed on these spots
• And even if AI units could be placed there, having all of them actually take off while you're gone, would cause unnecessary performance impact on your mission 

 

Also, I think you're missing my point on my static personnel example. Ground personnel (so these guys):

 

are only available as static objects. They can't actually move. They are not "dynamic units" (as you describe them). I wish they were, but they aren't.

 

 

You know- I would LOVE to be able to tell the AI which Cat to use..
But a late activation static, isnt on my list right now..

I do get what youre saying I could spend a few hours making a better mission around the carrier, just dont think people would notice, if i used both dynamics that went and came back, and statics that didnt move.
Hey- If im wrong, i guess they can always vote for their favourite in user files missions ..

[Exorcet]

4 hours ago, StevanJ said:

You can spawn smoke at any time you wish during a mission.. The first second- The minute you land..

I had missed the effect triggers, but I'd honestly rather the smoke act like a unit and not require a zone to be spawned in. I'll take what's available now if that isn't trivial to do though.

[Mufasa]

Making our own call sings could also be a great addition. 

[The_Dan]

18 hours ago, StevanJ said:

But a late activation static, isnt on my list right now..

There are a lot of other use cases for static late activation.

Randomize your mission for example so a factory or FARP for a strike isn't at the same place every time.

Spawn tents, generators and other supplements for late activated groups like SAM sites.

Or the spawning of sling loads in various locations.

 

Spawn statics by scripts would be a lot easier as you can use late activated template statics like late activated template groups. So you don't have to maintain your own database with the static names.

 

As i said a lot of different use cases where this would be a really handy feature.

[StevanJ]

2 minutes ago, The_Dan said:

There are a lot of other use cases for static late activation.

Randomize your mission for example so a factory or FARP for a strike isn't at the same place every time.

Spawn tents, generators and other supplements for late activated groups like SAM sites.

Or the spawning of sling loads in various locations.

 

Spawn statics by scripts would be a lot easier as you can use late activated template statics like late activated template groups. So you don't have to maintain your own database with the static names.

 

As i said a lot of different use cases where this would be a really handy feature.

Hi Dan, I randomise some of my missions, I use 'set random flag value' to generate different tasks.
Ive also used 'activate static' (does the same thing). Unless i can turn off a static, i just dont think its worth investment.

But if other people want it- thats cool..

[shagrat]

9 hours ago, StevanJ said:

Hi Dan, I randomise some of my missions, I use 'set random flag value' to generate different tasks.
Ive also used 'activate static' (does the same thing). Unless i can turn off a static, i just dont think its worth investment.

But if other people want it- thats cool..

How do you hide the static to have it spawn later in the mission without scripting?!

I am just building a mission where I need to spawn a barricade from destroyed busses and cars (static LAZ-665 with dead checked) and they need to be spawned after certain events, so I can't just place them.

Neither can I use a group and explode the units, as this will kill / damage neutral civilians placed close to the barricade before... A simple late activation and deactivation would save me a lot of lua scripting I am doing to place and spawn the dead objects through zones or coordinates... and I could easily check the positions and vector visually on the map, instead of crunching numbers in a script.

A simple look at the poll shows pretty much why it even came up in EDs internal discussions, because it is definitely useful to a lot of people with a more creative mindset.

 

------F...ing auto merge------

On 4/23/2021 at 5:49 PM, Mufasa said:

Making our own call sings could also be a great addition. 

Yeah, but how do you add the necessary voice overs?

On 4/23/2021 at 3:48 PM, StevanJ said:

You know- I would LOVE to be able to tell the AI which Cat to use..
But a late activation static, isnt on my list right now..

I do get what youre saying I could spend a few hours making a better mission around the carrier, just dont think people would notice, if i used both dynamics that went and came back, and statics that didnt move.
Hey- If im wrong, i guess they can always vote for their favourite in user files missions ..

Well, then open a new thread in the wishlist section with your wishes and don't try to switch an offer for a specific feature ED wants to implement into a "I don't need that, but give me XYZ" ? 

Edited April 24, 2021 by shagrat

[Tank50us]

18 hours ago, shagrat said:

Yeah, but how do you add the necessary voice overs?

Given that the current in-game voice-overs are basically done by a text-to-speech program built into the game, I think this would be the least game-breaking issue suggested. All one would have to do is set the program up the right way, and there ya go, no problem.

[shagrat]

On 4/25/2021 at 2:34 PM, Tank50us said:

Given that the current in-game voice-overs are basically done by a text-to-speech program built into the game, I think this would be the least game-breaking issue suggested. All one would have to do is set the program up the right way, and there ya go, no problem.

Ah, a self aquinted expert on the DCS internal workings?

The voice overs are actually recorded from real people, then split into elements, and put together by DCS' internal menu/voice system. That's why the "crew chief" sounds totally different when requesting ground air supply or rearm/refuel. The original voice actor is no longer available.

Call signs need to be integrated with all AI elements including different countries "pilots", AWACS and ATC...

[Tank50us]

7 hours ago, shagrat said:

Ah, a self aquinted expert on the DCS internal workings?

The voice overs are actually recorded from real people, then split into elements, and put together by DCS' internal menu/voice system. That's why the "crew chief" sounds totally different when requesting ground air supply or rearm/refuel. The original voice actor is no longer available.

Call signs need to be integrated with all AI elements including different countries "pilots", AWACS and ATC...

 

That's what I was referring to. The ATC and AWACS sound like a text-to-speech device. If I'm incorrect, then by all means, I'll own up.

[shagrat]

6 hours ago, Tank50us said:

 

That's what I was referring to. The ATC and AWACS sound like a text-to-speech device. If I'm incorrect, then by all means, I'll own up.

Text-to-speech is synthesized from scratch, by a computer algorithm. DCS uses prerecorded samples and phrases from real people. Things like numbers, callsigns and different snippets, are "stitched" together to form the message you hear.

Example AWACS calls:

"Callsign | one | one. | Wizard | one | one. | Pop up group | two | seven | eight | for | sixty."

 

The JTAC for example is Matt Wagner, but other original "actors" are no longer available. So the challenge may be to re-record everything, or really switch to a new system using in fact an adapted text-to-speech engine. The challenge for TTS engines is, they often have no idea how to spell or pronounce specific abbreviations and technical terms.

Edited April 27, 2021 by shagrat