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Sahaj Green Spring makes the Thrustmaster Warthog perfect


arcuspilot
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I don't remember how many times I disassembled my TM Warthog HOTAS joystick trying to make it less stiff.  The best fix I used to have was replacing the 4 small springs with longer ones.  But still too stiff.  I'd relate to the tension I can feel in the joystick of my friend's actual aircraft and also to the movement I see in in-cockpit videos of Hornet pilots etc.  

 

So eventually I went ahead and splurged 41 Euro on the green spring from Sahaj: https://warthog-extensions-by-sahaj.com/shop/warthog-green-springs/. It arrived about 3 weeks after I ordered it.  Sahaj is in Poland, I'm in Australia.

 

I installed it yesterday and it's perfect.  There's good recentering still and the effort to flip the A-10C II from side to side is much less.  I was pelting through gullies in Syria with much, much greater accuracy and now it's actually fun, not a mission to go for a flight.  Add that to the new clouds in DCS Open Beta 2.7 and flying in VR and I believe I now have the perfect A-10 (and Harrier and Hornet) set up.

 

By the way, before buying Sahaj's spring, I commissioned a local spring maker to make me a lighter spring.  They quoted me $80AUD (51 Euro) which is more expensive than Sahaj's - or about the same when you consider freight) plus - they weren't able to get their machine to do it anyway.  

 

Definitely consider getting Sahaj's green spring - well worth it!

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I don't remember how many times I disassembled my TM Warthog HOTAS joystick trying to make it less stiff.  The best fix I used to have was replacing the 4 small springs with longer ones.  But still too stiff.  I'd relate to the tension I can feel in the joystick of my friend's actual aircraft and also to the movement I see in in-cockpit videos of Hornet pilots etc.  
 
So eventually I went ahead and splurged 41 Euro on the green spring from Sahaj: https://warthog-extensions-by-sahaj.com/shop/warthog-green-springs/. It arrived about 3 weeks after I ordered it.  Sahaj is in Poland, I'm in Australia.
 
I installed it yesterday and it's perfect.  There's good recentering still and the effort to flip the A-10C II from side to side is much less.  I was pelting through gullies in Syria with much, much greater accuracy and now it's actually fun, not a mission to go for a flight.  Add that to the new clouds in DCS Open Beta 2.7 and flying in VR and I believe I now have the perfect A-10 (and Harrier and Hornet) set up.
 
By the way, before buying Sahaj's spring, I commissioned a local spring maker to make me a lighter spring.  They quoted me $80AUD (51 Euro) which is more expensive than Sahaj's - or about the same when you consider freight) plus - they weren't able to get their machine to do it anyway.  
 
Definitely consider getting Sahaj's green spring - well worth it!
Thanks! It's on my list already. But I'm considering all of the springs, as I want an extension. Do you use that?
Did you also sand and re-grease it?
Cheers!

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G'day, Max

 

One of the very first things I did when trying to reduce this joystick's stiffness was to take the base apart and sand and grease. There are a few YouTube vid's out there which can show you how.  Mostly though, they seem to be trying to address the "sticktion" issue.  I didn't have that but went through the process anyway. I don't recall it made much difference.  I wish I'd just got Sahaj's green spring first - would probably have saved me having to go through all that.

 

I don't use an extension.  I've got a kind of virtual cockpit rig; it's perfect, especially for VR which is how I normally fly - see the pic I've attached. When I had the frame modified I had the welder put a central post between my legs to bolt the Warthog joystick to.  I thought about an extension but realised that the seat of my chair might get in the way of aft movement of an extension so decided not to get one.  I don't think I need an extension but Cap from the Grim Reapers channel loves his (he has a Win Wing system) after getting used to the significant increase in throw.

 

I hope all that helps.  I must say that my love of DCS and virtual flight has been utterly amplified now I have a joystick that's a pleasure.  The last few years I've always "put up with" my stick just because it's an exact A-10 replica and has the best button and trigger layout and overall feel-in-hand on the market.  Now I completely enjoy every flight.

 

All the best

 

Chris

IMG_6030.jpg


Edited by arcuspilot
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G'day, Max
 
One of the very first things I did when trying to reduce this joystick's stiffness was to take the base apart and sand and grease. There are a few YouTube vid's out there which can show you how.  Mostly though, they seem to be trying to address the "sticktion" issue.  I didn't have that but went through the process anyway. I don't recall it made much difference.  I wish I'd just got Sahaj's green spring first - would probably have saved me having to go through all that.
 
I don't use an extension.  I've got a kind of virtual cockpit rig; it's perfect, especially for VR which is how I normally fly - see the pic I've attached. When I had the frame modified I had the welder put a central post between my legs to bolt the Warthog joystick to.  I thought about an extension but realised that the seat of my chair might get in the way of aft movement of an extension so decided not to get one.  I don't think I need an extension but Cap from the Grim Reapers channel loves his (he has a Win Wing system) after getting used to the significant increase in throw.
 
I hope all that helps.  I must say that my love of DCS and virtual flight has been utterly amplified now I have a joystick that's a pleasure.  The last few years I've always "put up with" my stick just because it's an exact A-10 replica and has the best button and trigger layout and overall feel-in-hand on the market.  Now I completely enjoy every flight.
 
All the best
 
Chris
IMG_6030.jpg.edec17a510ab508e99951323011aefba.jpg
Thanks for your reply and input!

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For me Sajah's green spring didn't deliver what i was hoping to feel after coming from a Cougar modded with Uber2 gimbals.

The original Warthog base... oh boy... so bad (the original Cougar was even a lot worse, not in friction but on different loads depending which part of the gimbal was under load).

Started with sanding and re-greasing. All felt quite smooth until assembly and then... no way i'm going to be able to fly like this (not after my super smooth U2 Cougar).

Played around with the 4 little springs... tad better but still... no go.

Picked up a green spring... a lot better but saying it's perfect... no way. It wasn't perfect.

So i started looking into something that could match the U2 Cougar gimbal. Found it in a Virpil WarBRD base (because at the same time it gives you the otion to change the VID number so TM software still thinks an original TM gimbal base is attached).

If you want something really perfect in feal, real super smooth movement, either VKB or Virpil are the road to go (i guess maybe also WinWing). Only then you know that even with Sajah's green spring installed, the TM Warthog gimbal isn't perfect. Not even close.

Win10 Pro 64-bit, i7-4770K @ 4.5 GHz, Corsair H100i, AsRock Extreme4, ASUS Strix 1080Ti OC 11GB, 32 GB DDR3 G.Skill 2400. Monitors: LG 27GL850-B27 2560x1440 + Samsung SyncMaster 2443 1920x1200, HOTAS: Warthog with Virpil WarBRD base & hegykc MFG Crosswind modded pedals, TrackIR4, Oculus Rift S.

Personal Wish List: A6 Intruder, Vietnam theater, decent ATC module, better VR performance!

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For me Sajah's green spring didn't deliver what i was hoping to feel after coming from a Cougar modded with Uber2 gimbals.
The original Warthog base... oh boy... so bad (the original Cougar was even a lot worse, not in friction but on different loads depending which part of the gimbal was under load).
Started with sanding and re-greasing. All felt quite smooth until assembly and then... no way i'm going to be able to fly like this (not after my super smooth U2 Cougar).
Played around with the 4 little springs... tad better but still... no go.
Picked up a green spring... a lot better but saying it's perfect... no way. It wasn't perfect.
So i started looking into something that could match the U2 Cougar gimbal. Found it in a Virpil WarBRD base (because at the same time it gives you the otion to change the VID number so TM software still thinks an original TM gimbal base is attached).
If you want something really perfect in feal, real super smooth movement, either VKB or Virpil are the road to go (i guess maybe also WinWing). Only then you know that even with Sajah's green spring installed, the TM Warthog gimbal isn't perfect. Not even close.
Thank you@Lange_666!
I've read your opinions on the Warthog several times, and I really appreciate your inputs!
The Warthog base is just a place holder for the time beeing. Virpil is on my wish list!!!! I'm also waiting for rel4y's force mod for my Cougars, and hopefully I get around to mod all of my MS SW FFB2's.
The reason I asked about the extension, was really if the green spring would be too soft.
While I have your attention. It's it possible to limit the degrees of travel on the Virpils?
Cheers!

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I can't really comment on a extension because i have never used one. You know Sajah sells other colors too which are harder, especially made for the use with (long) extensions. You should ask around here for people who have the different springs. Although, from what i did read on various forums, an extension can give a better feeling on a Warthog base due to the travel of the stick. It makes sense. But even then i "think" you still will feel a difference.

 

The only thing i know was that with the green spring installed (compared to the original TM spring), the stick leaned a little bit forward because it's so heavy. It also does that with the Virpil WarBRD base (+/- 2°) with the standard heavy springs installed (the standard soft springs are to soft for the TM stick). Don't know about the extra heavy springs since i don't own them. The 2° forward lean is no problem once calibrated. At least not for me. And then there's still option in cams, hard -, soft - or no center. I have the no center cams installed. Just plain super smooth movement. The Virpil X-shaped base plate is OK as long as you don't get into a heavy dogfight. I replaced it with the TM base plate, a lot more stable, no flippin' over in the heat of battle. 

 

No clue about the limit in degrees of travel on the Virpils. Maybe best to ask around on the Virpil forums if it's possible or not?

 

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Win10 Pro 64-bit, i7-4770K @ 4.5 GHz, Corsair H100i, AsRock Extreme4, ASUS Strix 1080Ti OC 11GB, 32 GB DDR3 G.Skill 2400. Monitors: LG 27GL850-B27 2560x1440 + Samsung SyncMaster 2443 1920x1200, HOTAS: Warthog with Virpil WarBRD base & hegykc MFG Crosswind modded pedals, TrackIR4, Oculus Rift S.

Personal Wish List: A6 Intruder, Vietnam theater, decent ATC module, better VR performance!

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I can't really comment on a extension because i have never used one. You know Sajah sells other colors too which are harder, especially made for the use with (long) extensions. You should ask around here for people who have the different springs. Although, from what i did read on various forums, an extension can give a better feeling on a Warthog base due to the travel of the stick. It makes sense. But even then i "think" you still will feel a difference.
 
The only thing i know was that with the green spring installed (compared to the original TM spring), the stick leaned a little bit forward because it's so heavy. It also does that with the Virpil WarBRD base (+/- 2°) with the standard heavy springs installed (the standard soft springs are to soft for the TM stick). Don't know about the extra heavy springs since i don't own them. The 2° forward lean is no problem once calibrated. At least not for me. And then there's still option in cams, hard -, soft - or no center. I have the no center cams installed. Just plain super smooth movement. The Virpil X-shaped base plate is OK as long as you don't get into a heavy dogfight. I replaced it with the TM base plate, a lot more stable, no flippin' over in the heat of battle. 
 
No clue about the limit in degrees of travel on the Virpils. Maybe best to ask around on the Virpil forums if it's possible or not?
 
Thanks for the info. I'll check out the Virpil forums.
Cheers!

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Hey guys

 

That's awesome about the Virpil base, Lange_666.  Before buying the green spring that was the way I was going to go.  But the thing's unavailable - on back order.  I was happy to spend the 189.95 Euro too.  I decided then to buy the green spring and, as I mentioned totally love it.  Such a game changer/improver for me!

 

But

 

As you've given the Virpil base such a good review, when it is back in stock I just might grab one after all 🙂


Edited by arcuspilot
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For me the green spring was a nice improvement but just not good enough because i was so used to the smooth movement of the U2 mod in my 17 year old Cougar.

But if the green spring is perfect, why spend that 190 extra. I would spend that on something else then...😉

 

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Win10 Pro 64-bit, i7-4770K @ 4.5 GHz, Corsair H100i, AsRock Extreme4, ASUS Strix 1080Ti OC 11GB, 32 GB DDR3 G.Skill 2400. Monitors: LG 27GL850-B27 2560x1440 + Samsung SyncMaster 2443 1920x1200, HOTAS: Warthog with Virpil WarBRD base & hegykc MFG Crosswind modded pedals, TrackIR4, Oculus Rift S.

Personal Wish List: A6 Intruder, Vietnam theater, decent ATC module, better VR performance!

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Thanks, Lange_666.  I do love that green spring.  Terrific value for money considering the vast improvement it made to that Warthog joystick.  I can't figure why Thrustmaster even released a stick that inappropriate for delicate maneuvers such as formation flying, air refueling or accurate strafing, especially considering the price point.  Everything else on it is great...

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Cougar was the same, although the gimbals were a complete different type which made the overall movement a lot smoother. But those superheavy springs (made for armwrestlers) and the way they were used... + spiky pots... plain horror. But then came IJ's Uber mod together with Cubpilot's hall sensors...😀, costed me the the same as the entire Cougar at that moment but didn't regret it one second.

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Win10 Pro 64-bit, i7-4770K @ 4.5 GHz, Corsair H100i, AsRock Extreme4, ASUS Strix 1080Ti OC 11GB, 32 GB DDR3 G.Skill 2400. Monitors: LG 27GL850-B27 2560x1440 + Samsung SyncMaster 2443 1920x1200, HOTAS: Warthog with Virpil WarBRD base & hegykc MFG Crosswind modded pedals, TrackIR4, Oculus Rift S.

Personal Wish List: A6 Intruder, Vietnam theater, decent ATC module, better VR performance!

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We do do what we must do to have the best possible experience, don't we, Lange?!  I agree, worth the spend to get it "just right".  I've flown a bunch since my last reply - man, that spring made such a difference.

Great conversation, mate.  Thank you and enjoy the flying!

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 4/25/2021 at 10:04 AM, Lange_666 said:

For me Sajah's green spring didn't deliver what i was hoping to feel after coming from a Cougar modded with Uber2 gimbals.

The original Warthog base... oh boy... so bad (the original Cougar was even a lot worse, not in friction but on different loads depending which part of the gimbal was under load).

Started with sanding and re-greasing. All felt quite smooth until assembly and then... no way i'm going to be able to fly like this (not after my super smooth U2 Cougar).

Played around with the 4 little springs... tad better but still... no go.

Picked up a green spring... a lot better but saying it's perfect... no way. It wasn't perfect.

So i started looking into something that could match the U2 Cougar gimbal. Found it in a Virpil WarBRD base (because at the same time it gives you the option to change the VID number so TM software still thinks an original TM gimbal base is attached).

If you want something really perfect in feal, real super smooth movement, either VKB or Virpil are the road to go (i guess maybe also WinWing). Only then you know that even with Sajah's green spring installed, the TM Warthog gimbal isn't perfect. Not even close. 

 

I was on the fence to get the Green Spring but adding about €120 to what that was going to cost got me a Virpil WarBrd base. It arrives June 8th, and it was on back-order when I ordered it, but that was only back on May 24th so i'm quite pleased. They do not charge your card until they are ready to ship so that took away any "back-order" anxiety away. So lange_666, is there a document somewhere about changing the PID #? Think I found it here ?

 

HOTAS Warthog Joystick
VID - 0x044F
PID - 0x0402

 


Edited by GaryR

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I'm looking at his extensions and springs to fit my HOTAS Warthog Stick to my rSeat N1 chassis ... simply the unit sitting on the floor of the rig is enough to keep it there. Will likely need a blue spring and the 20cm extension tube.

0753CCE1-833E-4E0E-9186-C780D59E53B7.jpeg


Edited by C3PO

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3 hours ago, GaryR said:

So lange_666, is there a document somewhere about changing the PID #? Think I found it here ?

 

Can't really remember but that's the link i have in my bookmarks, used it only once so...👍

Probably you need to change the springs to the heavy ones (or extra heavy if you ordered these along).

I have the "no center" cams installed also.


Edited by Lange_666

Win10 Pro 64-bit, i7-4770K @ 4.5 GHz, Corsair H100i, AsRock Extreme4, ASUS Strix 1080Ti OC 11GB, 32 GB DDR3 G.Skill 2400. Monitors: LG 27GL850-B27 2560x1440 + Samsung SyncMaster 2443 1920x1200, HOTAS: Warthog with Virpil WarBRD base & hegykc MFG Crosswind modded pedals, TrackIR4, Oculus Rift S.

Personal Wish List: A6 Intruder, Vietnam theater, decent ATC module, better VR performance!

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