RWR Confusion

[pepin1234]

This people are in bias all the way. We can’t go anywhere with such a super advantage... and after all, they wanted to tell us they are limited to make modern weapons... let’s be more serious... ED allow Aim-54 like a ballistic missile to kill everything in mountain background and the fantasy for some fanboys here seem to be unlimited...

 

we ask for a real war... HELLO a real WAR system used in real combat and is like ask for money on the street with hat...

 

That’s why the MP servers suck... a lot of brilliant people have left this game.

[XPACT]

57 minutes ago, Snappy said:

This double standard and inconsistency is what  ticks me off a bit.

 

I agree. They made huge mistake with that, now forums are filled with people wanting more fantasy stuff just because they once submitted to those requests and they have to lock threads because of aggressiveness of those people that won't get what they wish. There is one saying here and I will translate it literally "Give them one finger, soon they will want whole hand." that is happening right now... 

 

I am ok with keeping everything as realistic as possible and same standard everywhere.

[probad]

real life is not consistent you wouldnt get the choice if you were assigned to a 'nice' unit or the 'crappy' old unit so learn to deal with it if youre so interested in the military mindset

Edited April 28, 2021 by probad

[Snappy]

1 hour ago, probad said:

real life is not consistent you wouldnt get the choice if you were assigned to a 'nice' unit or the 'crappy' old unit so learn to deal with it if youre so interested in the military mindset

 

I'm not, but if I was I'd probably be put off even more by ED's fantasy weapon loadouts for the F-16, which has zero to do with real life.

 

 Thanks for trolling though. At least you're pretty consistent.

Edited April 28, 2021 by Snappy

[Sarge55]

Yup.  The fantasy F-16 loadouts were a huge mistake and this thread is a perfect example of why.

[SuumCuique]

I just love how there is no clear line in DCS. The F-16 is regularly flown with fantasy loadouts that would never see active service. At the same time ED removed the option to mount single (!) 120s without the dual-rails. Deka meanwhile is super conservative and actively removed weapons from certain pylons. The Mig-21 is a "franken-modell", as players like to call it, but almost no one seems to mind. DCS just is super inconsistent in the aspect of weapons.

[Sarge55]

Mig-21 was the offspring of a very botched and "messy to clean up" 3rd party development and might be forgiven for it's state.  Otherwise you are correct.

 

Better get back on track, sorry OP.

[probad]

6 hours ago, Sarge55 said:

Yup.  The fantasy F-16 loadouts were a huge mistake and this thread is a perfect example of why.

shouldnt even matter the problem is with forum warriors who are such absolute simpering weenies that they have to find every handicap they can get. if the f-16 didnt exist these people would be grasping for fc3 precedents as to why they should be allowed their handicaps.

 

you notice not a single one of them ever asks for downgrades in the name of realism only upgrades that they think will hand them wins

they're scared they can't pull out their own wins

 

in this forum theres already easily 3 threads circulating at any one time revolving around this fear and its even more hilarious in the apache forum because god forbid their hero helicopter can't shoot down the entire covenant armada by itself

 

you guys dont give a rats ass about realism just admit it already you just invoke it whenever its convenient for your gamer score

Edited April 29, 2021 by probad

[Lurker]

The SPO-10 RWR that we are getting, can it distinguish between friendly and enemy radars? More importantly can it tell you if you're just being pinged, or if you are being actively locked? I don't really care about how accurate it is, even a marginally functional early warning system is better than none. It can be extremely beneficial in a low flying helicopter, as long as you are not flying over an empty completely flat desert it should be possible to hide using terrain if you plan your route accordingly. 

Edited April 29, 2021 by Lurker

[randomTOTEN]

8 minutes ago, Lurker said:

I don't really care about how accurate it is,

...sigh...

[Lurker]

Just now, randomTOTEN said:

...sigh...

 

What? Are you dissapointed that you're not getting the best of the best of the best so you can be the best of the best of the best? Maybe you should stick to something other than flight simulators. 

[pepin1234]

32 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

What? Are you dissapointed that you're not getting the best of the best of the best so you can be the best of the best of the best? Maybe you should stick to something other than flight simulators. 

 

Don't exaggerate... we are talking about a RWR it is not the best of the best but work and export versions have it and is real. We are not making any difference with this RWR other than have more Situation awareness and is not for kill others but for defense.    

[Lurker]

37 minutes ago, pepin1234 said:

 

Don't exaggerate... we are talking about a RWR it is not the best of the best but work and export versions have it and is real. We are not making any difference with this RWR other than have more Situation awareness and is not for kill others but for defense.    

 

How about you go and re-read my post, and that goes for the RandomDead guy too. Nearly every single post you make pepin, in any thread is just whining about how "unbalanced" the game is how it's "unfair" how Red have it "bad" how overpowered NATO missiles and technology compared to RedFor. 

Almost none of it is based in reality, and it comes across as condescending at worst, and extremely childish at best. 

Let me spell it out for you: None of us have a say in what does and doesn't get implement in DCS World. It's not up to us. It's up to the developers to develop the module that they can, to the best of their abilities and according to the available materials and documentation that they have. 

This is what DCS World is about. If you want go play fantasy games, maybe you should go play War Thunder. 

 

Here is a bit of advice, though you probably won't listen: Work with what you have. Enjoy it, and learn to use it effectively, instead of endlessly crying about it on the forums.  

 

Edited April 29, 2021 by Lurker

[XPACT]

1 hour ago, Lurker said:

The SPO-10 RWR that we are getting, can it distinguish between friendly and enemy radars? More importantly can it tell you if you're just being pinged, or if you are being actively locked?

 

Seems like nobody wants to answer your question. Yes SPO-10 is somewhat primitive here is what it can do, I still think it's fine. 

 

It doesn't tell friendly from foe, lights blink (there is 4 lights but for example 2 can be lit simultaneously if that radiation source is in between two quadrants) and sound is heard when radar em wave hits your aircraft, by hearing amount of pulses and their length you can judge how many of them are and what type of radar it is airborn/ground etc

 

It will show STT lock by turning all four light signalization with a constant beep, but it cannot detect moment and if something is launched at you

Edited April 29, 2021 by XPACT

[Northstar98]

4 minutes ago, XPACT said:

Seems like nobody wants to answer your question. Yes SPO-10 is somewhat primitive here is what it can do, I still think it's fine.

 

Agreed.

 

4 minutes ago, XPACT said:

It doesn't tell friendly from foe, lights blinks and sound is heard when radar em wave hits your aircraft, by hearing amount of pulses and their length you can judge how many of them are and what type of radar it is airborn/ground etc

 

Yep - the only problem is the fidelity of RADARs (last time I checked with the MiG-21bis' SPO-10, all the RADARs essentially had the same characteristics. Though this would probably require the modelling of sidelobes or something.

 

4 minutes ago, XPACT said:

It will show STT lock by turning all four light signalization with a constant beep, but it cannot detect moment and if something is launched at you

 

Shouldn't the lights only illuminate, corresponding to what the SPO-10 antennae pick up? So in STT they're getting a constant signal, which explains the solid light and continuous sound - but they should still indicate direction unless the system is getting saturated (i.e all 4 antennae are receiving), which might happen at closer ranges.

[XPACT]

5 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

Shouldn't the lights only illuminate, corresponding to what the SPO-10 antennae pick up? So in STT they're getting a constant signal, which explains the solid light and continuous sound - but they should still indicate direction unless the system is getting saturated (i.e all 4 antennae are receiving), which might happen at closer ranges.

 

You should be right on this one, my mistake. 

And yes every radar in DCS has same characteristics that's a problem since SPO 10 tone pitch relies on that so you could in theory tell even exactly what radar model it is. Also there is modern stuff SPO 10 couldn't even detect since it would be out of its frequency range. All these are not simulated in DCS

 

DCS generally needs radar tech rework on a massive scale... 

Edited April 29, 2021 by XPACT

[Northstar98]

37 minutes ago, XPACT said:

You should be right on this one, my mistake. 

 

No worries, it's just that's how I thought the system worked - you certainly don't want direction to become ambiguous when somebody STTs you, as that's when you need it most.

 

But I figured that because the system is pretty rudimentary, as in it's just giving you what is essentially a raw signal from the receivers, and what they're 'seeing' so to speak.

 

Obviously I'm just going off of my interpretation here, but I think that's how it works.

 

37 minutes ago, XPACT said:

And yes every radar in DCS has same characteristics that's a problem since SPO 10 tone pitch relies on that so you could in theory tell even exactly what radar model it is. Also there is modern stuff SPO 10 couldn't even detect since it would be out of its frequency range. All these are not simulated in DCS

 

DCS generally needs radar tech rework on a massive scale...

 

Absolutely agreed.

[XPACT]

44 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

But I figured that because the system is pretty rudimentary, as in it's just giving you what is essentially a raw signal from the receivers, and what they're 'seeing' so to speak.

 

More that I think about it, it may be working as I said haha because in STT all four antennas will end up illuminated since signal level will be too strong em waves would inevitably bounce all around the jet, accuracy will be lost and every antenna will detect it and since there is no advanced processing circuit to determine timings that I know of I think everything would light up haha that is 60s for you but I will try to find some documentation and report back

 

SPO 15 is like alien ship to SPO 10

[Northstar98]

25 minutes ago, XPACT said:

More that I think about it, it may be working as I said haha because in STT all four antennas will end up illuminated since signal level will be too strong em waves would inevitably bounce all around the jet, accuracy will be lost and every antenna will detect it and since there is no advanced processing circuit to determine timings that I know of I think everything would light up haha that is 60s for you...

 

In that case it's probably getting saturated (which I guess is the right word) - it's all SNR at the end of the day.

 

25 minutes ago, XPACT said:

...but I will try to find some documentation and report back

 

Awesome.

 

25 minutes ago, XPACT said:

SPO 15 is like alien ship to SPO 10

 

Yeah it is much more capable.

[S.E.Bulba]

1 час назад, XPACT сказал:

… but I will try to find some documentation and report back

Цитата

4. ОПИСАНИЕ ФУНКЦИОНАЛЬНОЙ СХЕМЫ СТАНЦИИ

 

4.1. Функциональная схема станции для тяжёлых самолётов – ХА1.090.000 СхФ, для лёгких – ХА1.090.004 СхФ.

 

4.2. Станция представляет собой четырёхканальное приёмное устройство прямого усиления. Каждый канал работает автономно и обслуживает один из 4-х секторов, на которые условно разделено пространство вокруг самолёта.

 

4.3. Сигнал от облучающей РЛС, принятый любой из 4-х антенн, станции (блок С3М-1М, С3М-1СМ), через соответствующий приёмный канал (С3М-9М) воздействует на схему световой сигнализации данного канала (блок С3М-11М), а также на общее для всех каналов устройство звуковой сигнализации (плата 3М) и устройство для автоматического сброса дипольных отражателей (плата 1М).

 

С выхода устройства звуковой сигнализации сигнал поступает в самолётное переговорное устройство (СПУ-1 и СПУ-2) и на ультракоротковолновую радиостанцию (УКР).

 

Одновременно, прошедший схему световой сигнализации сигнал поступает на индикатор (блок СЗМ-5, СЗМ-5А, СЗМ-5Б) и «зажигает» лампу соответствующего сектора.

 

4.4. Если облучающая РЛС работает в режиме «Обзор», то лампа будет вспыхивать при каждом облучении самолёта перемещающимся лучом этой станции, а звуковой сигнал будет прослушиваться в виде коротких гудков в такт с загоранием лампы.

 

4.5. При работе облучающей РЛС в режиме «Захват» станция СПО-10 принимает сигналы в виде непрерывной последовательности импульсов. При этом световая и звуковая сигнализация будет работать без длительных пауз.

 

4.6. При облучении самолёта РЛС перехвата под ракурсами 1/4 или 3/4 со средних и близких дистанций сигнал будет приниматься одновременно антеннами двух соседних каналов и соответственно возможно загорание двух индикаторных ламп смежных каналов. Если при этом учитывать очерёдность загорания сигнальных ламп этих каналов при сближении с РЛС, то направление на РЛС можно определить точнее, т.к. истинное направление на РЛС находится ближе к сектору, где лампа загорелась раньше.

 

4.7. При облучении самолёта двумя независимыми РЛС с разных направлений срабатывает световая сигнализация соответствующего сектора, но моменты загорания ламп не совпадают.

 

[Britchot]

If it is based on the current MiG-21bis module's SPO-10, the direction of an STT is still represented by the appropriate light (2 lights if it's from between two quadrants).  Not until the enemy is close will it light up all 4 lights, simultaneously.  From tests back in 2019, it would start receiving contacts about 50km (26 nautical miles) away. 

 

The early module's SPO-10 was bugged with all 4 lights any time you are locked. 

Edited April 29, 2021 by Britchot

[randomTOTEN]

8 hours ago, Lurker said:

What?

 

6 hours ago, Lurker said:

How about you go and re-read my post, and that goes for the RandomDead guy too.

Yeah, my bad. I thought you were talking about wanting the SPO-15 there. My experience of the SPO-10 is also from the MiG-21.

 

8 hours ago, Lurker said:

The SPO-10 RWR that we are getting, can it distinguish between friendly and enemy radars?

Not even the SPO-15 can do that from the experience of the Su25T/FC3. You're gonna need situational awareness to understand if the emitter is likely friendly/foe. Friends shouldn't be locking you up.

 

8 hours ago, Lurker said:

More importantly can it tell you if you're just being pinged, or if you are being actively locked?

Yes it can.

 

As others have said, the RL unit likely converts the received signal to audio... allowing identification. We probably aren't going to get that. It'll be interesting to see how useful it actually is. I suspect we aren't going to be using it much for long range SAMs or AI in the Hind (route planning and CAP is probably a better defense), but it will probably be mostly used for detecting radar AAA and SHORAD. In which case, 4 lights might be enough to tell us which way to look as we take evasive action. Or it might not.

Edited April 29, 2021 by randomTOTEN

[XPACT]

SPO 15 is not simulated correctly in FC3, IRL you can know exact model of aircraft that is illuminating you based on lights that light up on the bottom it is even programmable

[pepin1234]

8 hours ago, Lurker said:

 

How about you go and re-read my post, and that goes for the RandomDead guy too. Nearly every single post you make pepin, in any thread is just whining about how "unbalanced" the game is how it's "unfair" how Red have it "bad" how overpowered NATO missiles and technology compared to RedFor. 

Almost none of it is based in reality, and it comes across as condescending at worst, and extremely childish at best. 

Let me spell it out for you: None of us have a say in what does and doesn't get implement in DCS World. It's not up to us. It's up to the developers to develop the module that they can, to the best of their abilities and according to the available materials and documentation that they have. 

This is what DCS World is about. If you want go play fantasy games, maybe you should go play War Thunder. 

 

Here is a bit of advice, though you probably won't listen: Work with what you have. Enjoy it, and learn to use it effectively, instead of endlessly crying about it on the forums.  

 

 

All your last post in this thread are to attack people in how they look this situation. Keep going you are almost creating your own dictatorship. The truth against the unfair must be judged. And the truth is that a simple RWR that was in real life in export versions, developers don’t want to add this system to the Mi-24. 
 

if F-14 kill in low altitude and in mountains with Aim-54 and nobody care, Mirage 2000 have systems never had, F-16 have payloads never had and nobody care in ED (including YOU, I don’t see you asking for change for that but bothering people when ask for real RWR for a Russian module)

 

let me guess...? You use more often the fake hardware allowed in this game and when the opposite side want to talk about real systems from real life you come out with "let’s learn use what developers gave to us" keep going you almost get a contract from ED.

[pepin1234]

9 hours ago, Lurker said:

The SPO-10 RWR that we are getting, can it distinguish between friendly and enemy radars? More importantly can it tell you if you're just being pinged, or if you are being actively locked? I don't really care about how accurate it is, even a marginally functional early warning system is better than none. It can be extremely beneficial in a low flying helicopter, as long as you are not flying over an empty completely flat desert it should be possible to hide using terrain if you plan your route accordingly. 

 

seriously... you make question at the same time your last posts show you argue with people with more knowledge. Why not try PlayStation 5 games and leave respectful people alone with their stuffs...?