reported MSI Info & Designation on RDR ATTK Page Coming?

[wilbur81]

On 4/29/2021 at 2:00 AM, Jak525 said:

@HarkerThe term "offboard" is used to refer to datalink MSI tracks specifically. An onboard track is radar and/or FLIR etc (anything but F/F, PPLI, SURV).

 

Just a piece of trivia, the Litening radar slave function we have is based on an avionics implementation prior to MSI. Basically, that's how it was done before they just invented the idea the FLIR would contribute to sensor fusion. That was removed, as it's unnecessary when you can simply command the radar to STT onto a FLIR-only HAFU (placing Attack or Az/El cursor over it and Castling toward format; Fast Acq). The A/A slaving modes we see on the ATFLIR in-game are what it was changed to, hence the lack of any direct radar-to-FLIR button on that.

 

Other things: when a trackfile does have Radar contribution, a circle should appear inside the main HAFU shape, and outside the rank number/L&S star. A FLIR-only track would be angle only and without the circle.

 

Also, designating a non-radar L&S should display NO RDR on the Attack format (bottom left region). With an AMRAAM selected, "NO RDR" is also drawn on the HUD under the TD box. (Picture attached.) (AMRAAM could technically be launched without radar but then you run into probably missile guidance issues since the radar is used to send it datalink commands even though the fact the radar is looking at its target is technically irrelevant).

 

Side note. A 20 year old F18 sim-that-shan't-be-named, which Wags actually worked on actually had all this fleshed out well, with designateable datalink tracks and stuff.

 

Additionally I'd note that whole reason the HUD says RADAR when you have an L&S is because there can be multiple sensor contributors.

 

Paging @Mo410 if he has any additional comments. Lol

 

(pic from this cool show: https://youtu.be/JwsIkiZEVhI?t=1636)

 

 

Jak, are you confident that this "NO RDR" indicator is associated with MSI target designation without the radar and not some software 'help' that represents the system trying to "remember" a temporarily lost radar contact until the radar finds it again? I only ask because it appears on the HUD, in the JETSTREAM clip, so quickly/briefly.

[Bunny Clark]

11 hours ago, IkarusC42B Pilot said:

No. Dcs is advertised as a simulator and never emphasized the word game unless you mean digital battlefield game in wich case youre disingenious and it has nothing to do with the simulation of hornet.

 

DCS is a game, it's something we play, for fun. It is not a "simulator" by any technical definition. If it was, I would need to do some serious editing of my pilot's logbook.

 

If you want an actual flight simulator, you'll need to pay a whole lot more money for something like this: https://www.virtual-fly.com/en/shop/certified-products/solo-pro-g1-faa-approved-training-device-g1000-cockpit

Edited May 10, 2021 by Bunny Clark

[IkarusC42B Pilot]

1 hour ago, Bunny Clark said:

DCS is a game, it's something we play, for fun

 

No. You play for fun and you find fun in different things then I. And it dosent matter how you have fun. Simulators are not about fun theyre about simulation and the fun is in simualtion and just because you call it game dosent mean anything,call it boomerang as far as i care

 

1 hour ago, Bunny Clark said:

 

If you want an actual flight simulator, you'll need to pay a whole lot more money for something like this: https://www.virtual-fly.com/en/shop/certified-products/solo-pro-g1-faa-approved-training-device-g1000-cockpit

 

I dont need a flight simulator,i have real life flying wich its in fun in the true meaning of fun,i want the hornet simulation wich i Can Not fly irl

[Eldbury]

21 minutes ago, IkarusC42B Pilot said:

No. You play for fun and you find fun in different things then I. And it dosent matter how you have fun. Simulators are not about fun theyre about simulation and the fun is in simualtion and just because you call it game dosent mean anything,call it boomerang as far as i care

 

I dont need a flight simulator,i have real life flying wich its in fun in the true meaning of fun,i want the hornet simulation wich i Can Not fly irl

 

If it is to be called a simulation, or boomerang, it is not a very accurate simulation.  Or boomerang.  It is an aircraft made by those who have never flown it for other people that haven't flown it, and to that end I guess it is doing its job because some people are happy.

 

Hopefully it gets better.

Edited May 10, 2021 by Eldbury

[Bunny Clark]

31 minutes ago, IkarusC42B Pilot said:

Simulators are not about fun theyre about simulation

Correct. Simulators are not about fun, they're about training. 

 

The purpose of DCS is not to practice skills so we can better fly a real Hornet. It's something we play for fun. A game. 

 

DCS is not 100% realistic, it never will be 100% realistic, and you will never, ever, find a 100% realistic simulator for $80, not even for a Cessna 172. 

[wilbur81]

Let's keep this on the MSI integration conversation, fellas.

[Jak525]

8 hours ago, wilbur81 said:

Jak, are you confident that this "NO RDR" indicator is associated with MSI target designation without the radar and not some software 'help' that represents the system trying to "remember" a temporarily lost radar contact until the radar finds it again? I only ask because it appears on the HUD, in the JETSTREAM clip, so quickly/briefly.

Yes. The NO RDR cue in that clip specifically is shown briefly as the MC is creating the MSI trackfile from ACM, so an odd example. The NO RDR cue however is absolutely there to indicate there is no Radar contribution to the L&S target when an AMRAAM is selected. Otherwise (e.g. Sparrow or Sidewinder, or NAV master mode), NO RDR would not show up, but you would not see RADAR or R in the HUD sensor contributor window, and the HAFU would be lacking the radar contributor circle on the Attack/AzEl/SA.

 

Cuing for a "lost" Radar trackfile, i.e. one that's gone into memory, would be the "R MEM" cue (Radar MEMory) on the HUD just above the sensor contributor window (not on the TD box). If all contributing MSI sensors are in memory then the TD box is also hashed. However R MEM shows up if the radar is in memory, even if other sensors aren't. On the DDIs you'd see the radar contributor circle flashing, or if all sensors are in jeopardy (or if the radar is the one and only sensor), the entire HAFU symbol flashes. Regardless NO RDR could only show up after the radar has done its memory phase and been completely dropped.
 

I wouldn't focus much on changing this thread's tag. I can tell you that there are people on the team that know what they're talking about. Don't worry too much for now at least.

Edited May 11, 2021 by Jak525

[wilbur81]

26 minutes ago, Jak525 said:

Yes. The NO RDR cue in that clip specifically is shown briefly as the MC is creating the MSI trackfile from ACM, so an odd example. The NO RDR cue however is absolutely there to indicate there is no Radar contribution to the L&S target when an AMRAAM is selected. Otherwise (e.g. Sparrow or Sidewinder, or NAV master mode), NO RDR would not show up, but you would not see RADAR or R in the HUD sensor contributor window, and the HAFU would be lacking the radar contributor circle on the Attack/AzEl/SA.

 

Cuing for a "lost" Radar trackfile, i.e. one that's gone into memory, would be the "R MEM" cue (Radar MEMory) on the HUD just above the sensor contributor window (not on the TD box). If all contributing MSI sensors are in memory then the TD box is also hashed. However R MEM shows up if the radar is in memory, even if other sensors aren't. On the DDIs you'd see the radar contributor circle flashing, or if all sensors are in jeopardy (or if the radar is the one and only sensor), the entire HAFU symbol flashes. Regardless NO RDR could only show up after the radar has done its memory phase and been completely dropped.
 

I wouldn't focus much on changing this thread's tag. I can tell you that there are people on the team that know what they're talking about. Don't worry too much for now at least.

 

Good stuff. 

[IkarusC42B Pilot]

9 hours ago, Bunny Clark said:

Correct. Simulators are not about fun, they're about training. 

 

Edited May 11, 2021 by IkarusC42B Pilot

[naizarak]

it's worth mentioning that the actual devs don't read the english forums.  you'll have much better chances of bringing this to attention of the relevant people by posting on the russian subforum, even if it's through google translate

[VIXEN413]

On 5/10/2021 at 10:18 PM, Bunny Clark said:

Correct. Simulators are not about fun, they're about training. 

 

The purpose of DCS is not to practice skills so we can better fly a real Hornet. It's something we play for fun. A game. 

 

DCS is not 100% realistic, it never will be 100% realistic, and you will never, ever, find a 100% realistic simulator for $80, not even for a Cessna 172. 

Well, they got it pretty dang right IMHO... 

I m every 6 months in a FFS and some  Sims that we use have more bugs or misreproduced systems compared to the real bird... 

Got some colleagues that were f16 pilots before joining the airline that fly with us in VR... They will all agree that DCS in VR has better quality and possibilities then the sim they had for their Vipers.... 

Ok, other thechnology, other purpose etc  etc... DCS has some limitations compared to the real thing due to classified data allright but there is also so much the airforce sim can do compared to the bird itself... 

 

so yes, even 600eur/h sims are not 100% realistic lol

 

Edited May 13, 2021 by VIXEN413

[Spectre1-1]

can we have a discussion about what DCS is on another thread please ?
more you all argue about unrelated topics less credible the original intent gets, and that is MSI so a rather important part of the hornet, as it was built around it

[NineLine]

I'm taking another look at this, but please stay on topic if you have anything to add. Thanks.

[NineLine]

I updated this to reported, it was actually reported earlier, just a miss communication on the no evidence tag. I have no timeline on this though. Thanks.

[LaFleur]

50 minutes ago, NineLine said:

I'm taking another look at this, but please stay on topic if you have anything to add. Thanks.

Thanks NineLine, very cool!

Edited May 20, 2021 by LaFleur