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F-16 & Mavericks


Mikkall
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Specifically, the D's (today).

Is it me... or are these pretty much the most janky weapon ever?  I honestly can't tell if it's buggy, or simply so full of steps (let's call them "options") that it's near impossible to get everything right all at once.

As I understand it, you can use Auto-Handoff.  Well, not so much... maybe.  Who friggin knows?  Sometimes you get the Target Cross on the Hud... sometimes you don't.  Did you Boresight?  I don't know... I tried, maybe I did.  When I've been lucky enough to get the WPN pg AND a target cross on in the area, I can't slow the slew enough to keep it from firing a few km one way or another.  Sometimes you can switch from "Pre" to "Vis", occasionally you can't, when it gets stuck on Bore, and you don't remember putting it there, and occasionally you can if you do, or don't.  I don't know.  I give up.  I do, I just don't have the hours to wrap my head around this.

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Mavericks are a pain. While I need to go to work now, there are a couple of video tutorials out there, think from Wags and probably a good one from the grim reapers about alignment. 

But... They aren't easy to use together with a targeting pod. 

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On 4/27/2021 at 3:08 AM, Mikkall said:

Specifically, the D's (today).

Is it me... or are these pretty much the most janky weapon ever?  I honestly can't tell if it's buggy, or simply so full of steps (let's call them "options") that it's near impossible to get everything right all at once.

As I understand it, you can use Auto-Handoff.  Well, not so much... maybe.  Who friggin knows?  Sometimes you get the Target Cross on the Hud... sometimes you don't.  Did you Boresight?  I don't know... I tried, maybe I did.  When I've been lucky enough to get the WPN pg AND a target cross on in the area, I can't slow the slew enough to keep it from firing a few km one way or another.  Sometimes you can switch from "Pre" to "Vis", occasionally you can't, when it gets stuck on Bore, and you don't remember putting it there, and occasionally you can if you do, or don't.  I don't know.  I give up.  I do, I just don't have the hours to wrap my head around this.

what's preventing you from switching between PRE and VIS might be a Point Track with the TPOD. That prevent's it currently. But I haven't researched whether it is correct or not.

 

HUD-Symbology and behaviour in general is very flaky and not mission capable is what I'd say right now.

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The TGP for me has been an exercise in frustration. I wish we could jettison it, at least I could throw it at the enemy.

 

However I do use mavericks all the time and just skip the TGP all together, aim each one individually. Works fine except each missile has to be aimed individually. 

 

I have been able to use the TGP for laser guided bombs. If there is a steerpoint near the target, it works just ok. If there isn't, you have to currently use snowplow mode and it is really buggy but doable.

 

If the target is moving(like a sub) i find the gbu's miss even though the laser is right on the sub. If the target is static it works, but mavericks and tgp handoff, i gave up a while ago.

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7 minutes ago, PicklePicklePickle said:

The TGP for me has been an exercise in frustration. I wish we could jettison it, at least I could throw it at the enemy.

 

However I do use mavericks all the time and just skip the TGP all together, aim each one individually. Works fine except each missile has to be aimed individually. 

 

I have been able to use the TGP for laser guided bombs. If there is a steerpoint near the target, it works just ok. If there isn't, you have to currently use snowplow mode and it is really buggy but doable.

 

If the target is moving(like a sub) i find the gbu's miss even though the laser is right on the sub. If the target is static it works, but mavericks and tgp handoff, i gave up a while ago.

I don't know if GBUs are designed to hit moving targets.  It could be that the CCRP logic assumes a stationary target, so it releases the bombs assuming they won't need extra energy to maneuver.

"Subsonic is below Mach 1, supersonic is up to Mach 5. Above Mach 5 is hypersonic. And reentry from space, well, that's like Mach a lot."

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Maverick are just god tier weapons if you are nont engaging sam and you can engage at 10 nm MAX. You can align in ground your maverick with TGP, isn't mandatory , depends of task need, on low thread target i prefer to lock with TGT, lock with maverick boresight and go :D. in 1 strike you can fire 3 mavericks without pain

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In my experience, I found that Mavericks seem to work fine in auto handoff mode if the target is isolated enough. Like a tank in the middle of the desert. However, as as soon as there are more objects around or the contrast between the target and its surroundings isn't very clear, the Maverick will either lock onto the wrong thing or refuse to lock on at all. The weird part is that if the Maverick refuses to lock on, going to the WPN page, TMS down, TMS up to manually lock usually works though. 

 

I have no idea if it's like this in the real jet as well.

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Right now Mav delivery modes are WIP, and the TGP is very much WIP. It'll get better as we get more completed features. It's a pretty cool system when it's working as intended. 

 

Right now it works alright for a single delivery so long as everything goes right and you don't end up in break lock. If you do, things can get janky pretty quick. 

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Another thing I have noticed regarding Mavericks...when you target on the D's themselves without the TGP, the IR works way 'better' and it is possible to pick out 'hot' targets in white.

 

On the TGP, the white hot doesn't really seem to do anything. The black hot works a bit better, but still not as well as aiming the mavericks directly. Hot vehicles just seem to blend into the background.

 

I say 'better' in quotes because while the mavericks are easier to target, I don't really know which one is more realistic. Maybe using the TGP is really that difficult in real life. I have used FLIR systems and they have no trouble picking out hot vehicles so I think the maverick flir is probably a tad closer to reality right now.

 

Just another reason to skip thr tgp right now, while it is finished.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 4/29/2021 at 6:08 PM, Machalot said:

I don't know if GBUs are designed to hit moving targets.  It could be that the CCRP logic assumes a stationary target, so it releases the bombs assuming they won't need extra energy to maneuver.

Done it with the A-10 a-plenty.  Just sayin...  done LOTS of stuff with the A-10 a-plenty.  But like I implied before, every time I walk away from the 16 after a fail, I'm not certain if it's my fault, a bug(s), or the stars & planets aligned incorrectly.

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It certainly works better in the A-10C right now, specifically AGM-65D and the TGP together.

 

I have not had much success with auto-handoff in the F-16. Therefore, if using the TGP at all and PRE mode, I'll just get the TGP on/near the target and then use the WPN page to make the fine adjustments and lock. If the maverick seeker isn't behaving correctly for any reason, give it a TMS aft on the WPN page and that often fixes it. If that doesn't work, TMS aft, then cycle the mode through VIS/BORE and back to PRE.

 

But honestly VIS mode is my go-to. First off, boresighting with the TGP is just a chore IMO, and secondly I generally try to fly with my head out of the cockpit. If I spot something with my Mk 1 eyeballs, the TGP is just an unnecessary middleman.

 

Get WPN page up and set to VIS mode. Then when you roll in, get the target in the HUD, then memorize this sequence:

 

DMS fwd, TMS aft, slew box on target, TMS fwd. Look at WPN page to make fine tune adjustments and TMS fwd again to lock, and fire.

 

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6 hours ago, Xavven said:

But honestly VIS mode is my go-to. First off, boresighting with the TGP is just a chore IMO, and secondly I generally try to fly with my head out of the cockpit. If I spot something with my Mk 1 eyeballs, the TGP is just an unnecessary middleman.

If you can spot camouflaged tanks in clutter at 5 nmi in DCS, you have much better eyes than me.

"Subsonic is below Mach 1, supersonic is up to Mach 5. Above Mach 5 is hypersonic. And reentry from space, well, that's like Mach a lot."

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On 4/27/2021 at 3:08 AM, Mikkall said:

Specifically, the D's (today).

Is it me... or are these pretty much the most janky weapon ever?  I honestly can't tell if it's buggy, or simply so full of steps (let's call them "options") that it's near impossible to get everything right all at once.

As I understand it, you can use Auto-Handoff.  Well, not so much... maybe.  Who friggin knows?  Sometimes you get the Target Cross on the Hud... sometimes you don't.  Did you Boresight?  I don't know... I tried, maybe I did.  When I've been lucky enough to get the WPN pg AND a target cross on in the area, I can't slow the slew enough to keep it from firing a few km one way or another.  Sometimes you can switch from "Pre" to "Vis", occasionally you can't, when it gets stuck on Bore, and you don't remember putting it there, and occasionally you can if you do, or don't.  I don't know.  I give up.  I do, I just don't have the hours to wrap my head around this.

A lot of steps and yes I struggle as well. BUT preparation is key and I whish somebody would do a good video on an orbit pattern for good tgp. Because once your don't have to worry about flying, then you can concentrate on looking and shooting. Practice to death and then practice some more. It is tough but it is the shortest way to fame 🙂

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with the right graphic settings, they will appear as "blocks" that you can easily make out .. and then when you come closer they blend in with the background.

Lincoln said: “Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."

Do not expect a reply to any questions, 30.06.2021 - Silenced by Nineline

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8 hours ago, Machalot said:

If you can spot camouflaged tanks in clutter at 5 nmi in DCS, you have much better eyes than me.

 

I'd probably want a TGP for that use case. This isn't an all-or-nothing argument -- the TGP is a tool that should be used when it's the right tool for the job. But somehow the A-10A was able to employ mavericks in several conflicts without one.

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Some tips I've learned:

  • If you can't get the AUTO handoff to complete, switch stations (NWS/MSL STEP button) and come back and it will usually work.
  • Though the purpose of the handoff is to align the Maverick's seeker with the TPOD, if there are several targets within the seeker's view, it will NOT necessarily pick the exact one you had selected on the TPOD.  You may have to tweak the targeting a bit by changing SOI to the Maverick and selecting your target.
  • When boresighting the Mavericks, try to pick a fairly distant target.  If you are a few inches different at 100 Yds, you are several feet or more off at 5nm.  
  • If you are passing over a target, even if it looks like the Maverick is locked it may not be--they sometimes go off into la-la-land after launch if the downward angle is too high.  Try to be pointing the nose as close to the target as possible.

Good luck!

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1 hour ago, USAF-Falcon87 said:
  • they sometimes go off into la-la-land after launch if the downward angle is too high.  Try to be pointing the nose as close to the target as possible.

 

Good tip -- look up the "Maverick Keyhole" and make sure you have less than 30° of bank angle to ensure the maverick tracks after launch.

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On 5/21/2021 at 4:15 PM, Xavven said:

 

Good tip -- look up the "Maverick Keyhole" and make sure you have less than 30° of bank angle to ensure the maverick tracks after launch.

Oh it tracks--usually at the trees by the road.  Stupid tree owls--they had it comin'......

 

😉

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Only issue I have with Maverick is that it prefers to lock a target that is near by rather than the target you are pointing at with crosshair or with TGP, cant do anything about that then reset the lock and try to reacquire the target.

 

The OP says its impossible but its really not that hard, and as few people said it already here, practice and patience, just like AAR ;P

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