IFR arrivals

[DarkStar]

Good morning, 

 

First of all, I'm enjoying the missions in this campaign, the documentation etc is also very good.

 

I'm having a few issues with the arrivals. I know there is an inherent weakness in DCS with the lack of ATC, but I believe we can manage it in a better way than it is at the moment.

For example, the SOP says use of ATC is optionable, and we can fly whatever arrival we want. This frequently puts the player in hazardous situations, and at more than occasion have I had near-misses with other aircraft at final. 

If we look at this overview of an arrival from mission 3, we se myself flying a tacan/ILS approach according to the charts, I have no idea what the rest of the flight is planning, but it looks like they are heading to a holding/marshalling pattern with the rest of the package. 

 

Again, I know it is not the mission designers fault, it is DCS code, but crashing with the AI on landing is a total immersion killer, so lets discuss some options.

 

We know the AI enters a pattern on landing, regardless of IFR or VFR. We know where that pattern is and we know where ATC gives you a "cleared for visual, contact twr" and subsequently a "cleared to land". In the instances that you don't get a "cleared for visual", we can assume that you are not, and therefore must execute a missed approach at a certain distance from the airfield.

 

My suggestion will then be to include all this into the SOP and state that "if you do not recieve a "cleared for visual call" you are to enter a pattern at X-feet and try to hit the markpoint untill you are cleared..." etc.

 

It is not realistic at all, but neiher is crashing into a F-15 at the threshold when you're flying vectors to ILS under radar control by ATC, so it could be a workaround, just by describing what to expect from the AI. 

 

I would also love a few more pre-recorded transmissions from Nellis tower, like the ones in Sedlos Red Flag campaign. I like the spacebar aknowledge system, but I understand other people do not. It gives me more immersion to hear more realistic atc and departure comms, when the system doesn't work, voiceovers is a fantastic replacement  

 

My two cents,

 

Best regards,

DS

[Bunyap]

Thanks DS, these are all great points.  I am constantly making tweaks to the missions and documents so I will see what I can do.

 

I put a lot of thought into how to handle it and, if anything, I would have deactivated all AI flights as they approach Nellis.  I think though, if you saw the amount of work that went into getting the AI flights to that point in the first place without flying into terrain, running out of fuel, aborting their attack, shooting themselves down, etc you would, a. question my sanity  and b. understand why I said 'enough is enough - no more work-arounds' at this point in the mission.  I know fixes are coming eventually so I do not want to spend a lot of time on custom ATC or anything like that.  I am far more concerned with how well things go for both the player and strike package in the target area , and I hope it shows.

 

I know recovery is a weak point in these missions (all DCS missions actually), but I have to take the developers at their word that AI improvements and the new ATC are coming.  These are very long-standing and long-reported problems.  I am the eternal optimist.

[DarkStar]

4 hours ago, Bunyap said:

I put a lot of thought into how to handle it and, if anything, I would have deactivated all AI flights as they approach Nellis.  I think though, if you saw the amount of work that went into getting the AI flights to that point in the first place without flying into terrain, running out of fuel, aborting their attack, shooting themselves down, etc you would, a. question my sanity  and b. understand why I said 'enough is enough - no more work-arounds' at this point in the mission.  I know fixes are coming eventually so I do not want to spend a lot of time on custom ATC or anything like that.  I am far more concerned with how well things go for both the player and strike package in the target area , and I hope it shows.

 

 

I totally get you mate. I was wondering myself if the only way to get a realistic arrival sequence was to "force" the player flight to the tanker (just for a rejoin or dry hook-up) and when the player is busy, despawn every single AI and respawn them on a perfect approach in a straight line with spacing between each jet.

 

Nah, I hope by voicing our grievances that ED might push on the ATC side of things instead of more jets or helicopters. The world should come alive someday (without making mission designers go mad in the process! )