need track replay Un/Cage Bug Still In AGM-65F

[Cerulean]

Unless I am doing something wrong, the Un/Cage command still won't un/cage the AGM-65F. Am I missing something, or is this a long running problem?

[Tholozor]

Do you have the TDC assigned to the MAV page when commanding cage/uncage?

[Mike77]

Not OP, but I've had this problem with the TDC assigned to the MAV page when commanding cage/uncage.  Repeatable for me.  

[BIGNEWY]

seems to be working fine for me. 

 

Add a track replay we will see if we notice anything

 

thanks

[Recluse]

Are you sure the AGM-65F has timed out? You will not be able to UNCAGE it until it finishes it's Cool Down (warm up?) and the timer has counted down.

[Rinze]

Same problem here. I've watched several you tube movies'. seems like i'm not doing anything wrong. I've changed anything in my keyboard settings. So C for cage and uncage. Even in the traning mission it does not work. I think i miss some small detail just some.
Thanks for sharing
 

[Luxus]

I got a similar problem. The solution is the SOI (Sensor Of Interest), which needs to be on the weapon screen, a little rectangular dot that appears on the right upper corner of the weapon screen. You need to assign this to the joystick.

 

Now DCS is called a "study simulation", right? But sometimes it is more a "guess simulation", because the documentation is not really helpful. And the videos on youtube are way too long explaining a lot of stuff, but not putting enough emphasis on the important things. This is fortunately changing, because the community members are learning to create better documentations. But I would love to see a better documentation from the creators of the jets. For example better and shorter "quick guides", showing details of a joystick binding, keys, step one, step two, etc, with some typical problems you could encounter and so on. Most people I know who tried DCS was scared of the poor documentation, not because of the complexity of the simulation. Don't get me wrong. The documentation per se is ok (just ok), but it could be written in a way to save the reader time, to lead the newbie to the point he needs to know, not historical facts, not bla bla bla, but straight to the point where one is ready to use the staff. I write this after I collected the informations from different sources, some create PDFs made by users, not creators. I wish creators would make better guides than users.

[Assamita]

Same problem here. I have the targetting pod tracking the moving target in one screen, the MAV IR cam on another, I have the TDC square in the MAV screen, and the cage/uncage properly bound to my hotas. The warm up countdown has long been finished, and still I can't cage and uncage it. I'm pretty sure I'm doing everything right, it's likely a bug. How can I attach a track replay to show you?

[Tholozor]

Is your Master Arm set to ARM or SAFE?

[Assamita]

11 minutes ago, Tholozor said:

Is your Master Arm set to ARM or SAFE?

I would feel offended by the question, if I didn't know some people fail to do the very most basic things sometimes 

But yes, Master Arm is ARM. As I said, I would share a track replay if I knew how to.

[BIGNEWY]

please post a short track replay example and we are happy to take another look 

thanks

[Assamita]

20 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

please post a short track replay example and we are happy to take another look 

thanks

I'll do that later today. I haven't saved any of the attempts I've done so far. Be right back in a few hours with the file, thanks.

[Habu_69]

FWIW AGM-65F cage/uncage functions properly for me. 2.7.14.24228

[Recluse]

Works fine for me too.  I don't always get a LOCK but it always uncages for me   

Have you checked you control binding to make sure you don't have something funny going on with CAGE/UNCAGE?  Does CAGE/UNCAGE work OK with other weapons such as AGM-65E or HARM Handoff, or caging VV in the HUD with cross wind?

Edited June 1, 2022 by Recluse

[Assamita]

Here's a link to the track file. I could not, for anything switch between cage and uncage.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1m5LG0f7ijfz7dS85ilZRv6QnVpWQYx3i/view?usp=sharing

[Assamita]

Ok, definitely I'm doing something wrong, as I tested the weapons practice mission and it works. I think I needed to learn a few things that might help others in the future:

- To slew the seeker of the MAV, I need to press both Undesignate button + TDC depress. I know the TDC I need to keep it pressed while moving the reticle around, not sure about the Undesignate one.

- The MAV won't be made available until it has a lock on a target

- In the weapons practice, I selected a target WP, and then I could cage and uncage freely. I guess in the mission I was flying, since the target was aquired either by the GMT radar or the TGP, the cage/uncage option is a bit more limited, since either the radar or the TGP already have a lock on a target. I guess I only need to uncage it to slew it, but I don't really need to cage it again.

 

I'll try the mission again later today or tomorrow, see if what I've learned helps me.

[Recluse]

I haven't looked at the TRACK yet... but...

 

Are you confusing CAGE/UNCAGE with ability to SLEW the seeker?

If you have a target locked by another sensor and hand it off to the MAVERICK seeker, you cannot slew the MAVERICK seeker unless you UNDESIGNATE the target.  The Seeker will remain GROUND STABILIZED (for that missile) so you can Slew around near the Target that is handed off and lock something with the seeker itself.  Once fired, the next missile will be boresighted.

In my experience with the AGM-65F,  when I handoff a target from the TGP (maybe also GMT, I don't recall) the FIRST missile automatically uncages and attempts to lock onto the point.

Subsequent target handoffs require manually UNCAGING.

YES you need to hold down TDC DEPRESS to slew the seeker unless you turn off REALISTIC TDC SLEW in SPECIAL OPTIONS.

 

 

Edited June 1, 2022 by Recluse

[Assamita]

18 hours ago, Recluse said:

I haven't looked at the TRACK yet... but...

 

Are you confusing CAGE/UNCAGE with ability to SLEW the seeker?

If you have a target locked by another sensor and hand it off to the MAVERICK seeker, you cannot slew the MAVERICK seeker unless you UNDESIGNATE the target.  The Seeker will remain GROUND STABILIZED (for that missile) so you can Slew around near the Target that is handed off and lock something with the seeker itself.  Once fired, the next missile will be boresighted.

In my experience with the AGM-65F,  when I handoff a target from the TGP (maybe also GMT, I don't recall) the FIRST missile automatically uncages and attempts to lock onto the point.

Subsequent target handoffs require manually UNCAGING.

YES you need to hold down TDC DEPRESS to slew the seeker unless you turn off REALISTIC TDC SLEW in SPECIAL OPTIONS.

 

 

 

Thank you, that's very valuable information. I think I might disable the REALISTIC TDC SLEW as you mention, because I'm having a really, REALLY HARD time getting the maverik to lock on the proper target, even if it's properly locked in the TGP. For some reason, the seeker doesn't lock onto the target in the TGP.

[Recluse]

12 minutes ago, Assamita said:

Thank you, that's very valuable information. I think I might disable the REALISTIC TDC SLEW as you mention, because I'm having a really, REALLY HARD time getting the maverik to lock on the proper target, even if it's properly locked in the TGP. For some reason, the seeker doesn't lock onto the target in the TGP.

I have that problem often. USUALLY successive CAGE/UNCAGE cycles will get it to lock, but sometimes have to Undesignate and Slew ever so slightly to get the seeker to lock. Not sure if it is an "LOS" issue or a "CONTRAST" issue (though we know that DCS doesn't really model contrast as such) or sometimes the Maverick will lock on to something ELSE and you can see the Maverick Seeker triangle slightly offset from the TGP diamond. 

[Assamita]

Thank you Recluse. Then if I have the target locked in the TGP, I should be able to cage and uncage, but not Slew it unless it's undesignated?

What happens if I lock a target in the GMT radar, then move to the TGP and lock it there? I assume only the last lock will remain, right? and when I move to the MAV screen and uncage it, it should move automatically to the target?

[Recluse]

You SHOULD be able to immediately switch to Maverick Seeker once you have a GMT Lock and Uncage the Maverick to the GMT target. I do this all the time with SEA Radar and SHIP Targets.  I usually put up the TPOD to see the target but I do NOT switch TDC to the TPOD unless I am needing to fine tune the lock or switch target.

 

- Early on, when you had a GMT lock (see RDR in HUD as indication of designating Sensor) and then switched to TPOD, you had to essentially switch the Designating Sensor to TPOD, or, in the case of an LGB attack, you might get out of the RADAR field of "view" when very close to the target.  Usually this meant undesignating and re-acquiring.

- CURRENTLY if you have a RADAR Lock and switch your TDC to the TPOD, the TPOD will automatically become the designating sensor, (See FLIR in HUD) which is something you MIGHT NOT WANT to happen.  There are some bug reports on this which I will try to link to if I can find them. (NOT SURE IT IS REALLY A BUG)  IF you put up the TPOD but don't switch TDC to it, you can maintain the Radar lock while getting a visual on the target.

 

EDIT: Probably should move this discussion out of this particular thread.  (and I can't seem to find the report about automatically switching Sensor to TPOD)

So you see what I am talking about, though, see attached track:

 

- SEA radar lock up ship at 50 miles

- Switch to MAVF - Seeker uncages and snaps to target area. NOTE RDR in HUD

- Enable TPOD,  too far to see anything but the TPOD is pointing at the target

- Move TDC to TPOD.. Note RADAR loses lock (RDR no longer appears in HUD, but neither does FLIR because it isn't locked either, just ground stabilized)

- Mess with TPOD to get an AREA track, FLIR appears in HUD.

- At around 18 miles, I do manage to get a Point Track on the Moving Ship. 

- From what I can see, the MAV remained locked on from the beginning by the upside down triangle.  Switching to MAV seeker you can make out the ship under the MAV reticle (though at this point it might be cued to the FLIR PTRACK. Pretty sure the Mav seeker symbol hadn't moved since initial lock)

 

RadarFlirMav.trk

Edited June 2, 2022 by Recluse

[Assamita]

I'll try the last thing you mentioned (not locking the target with the TGP) see if I can have the MAV to properly lock. The problem is that it's a group of 3 vehicles very close together, and I don't think I can target one specifically with the RDR. On the other hand, when I hit one (I managed to do it once), the other two vehicles stop, and I still need to destroy them. Since they are stopped, the GMT radar don't pick them and I need to use the TGP.

[Recluse]

1 hour ago, Assamita said:

I'll try the last thing you mentioned (not locking the target with the TGP) see if I can have the MAV to properly lock. The problem is that it's a group of 3 vehicles very close together, and I don't think I can target one specifically with the RDR. On the other hand, when I hit one (I managed to do it once), the other two vehicles stop, and I still need to destroy them. Since they are stopped, the GMT radar don't pick them and I need to use the TGP.

Yeah, once you ground stabilize the TGP in the vicinity, it is easier to slew it and pick up the scattered vehicles.  If close enough you can also use the Maverick seeker, but, that is a lot trickier.

[Assamita]

I finally managed to finish the mission, but God I hate AGM-65Fs! It was a learning experience though, that's for sure...