Does anyone fly IL2 as well? Question on thoughts of p47 handling

[Gunrun_KS]

DCS P-47 is more believe able when it comes to pilots having confidence in the Jug.  She's harder to tame but also portrays a powerful bird. 

[grafspee]

That is my point, high alt fighter which has problems with high alt diving. When P-47 loses control in dive and other plane can pull out of the dive with no problem, that is by me not a good dive plane.

[grafspee]

I will add that DCS P-47 simulation, include ram air dynamic pressure, which adds extra level of realism and how this plane was operated.

For example, before dive you need to lower MP, because at speed ram air will increase MP significantly.

 

[Strong05]

13 hours ago, grafspee said:

That is my point, high alt fighter which has problems with high alt diving. When P-47 loses control in dive and other plane can pull out of the dive with no problem, that is by me not a good dive plane.

Show me the reference that says the P-47D was a bad diving airplane, or that it had bad diving characteristics.

 

If compressibility was so bad on the P-47 why did they remove the dive flaps for the N and M models?

[grafspee]

12 hours ago, Strong05 said:

Show me the reference that says the P-47D was a bad diving airplane, or that it had bad diving characteristics.

 

If compressibility was so bad on the P-47 why did they remove the dive flaps for the N and M models?

I did say that N M was different plane much better, this does not mean that all other version were the same.

Open manual for D or early versions. And read. And if you compare dive speed limits to P-51 for example at high alt or spitfire, values are noticeable lower.

Compressibility range wasn't extremely bad like in P-38, but was not as good as in other fighters, it had problems which required dive recovery flaps. Do you see any recovery flaps in P-51,spitfire, fw190 or bf 109 ? no. This should be enough.

P-47 N is different story. I would love to have P-47N in DCS some day

 

Edited May 18, 2021 by grafspee

[Strong05]

Would love to see an N variant as well.

 

Agree to disagree.  There is more to diving capabilities then the mach limit, as already discussed.  Or one could argue it had the flaps because it could quickly achieve speeds other planes couldn't.  

[grafspee]

1 hour ago, Strong05 said:

Would love to see an N variant as well.

 

Agree to disagree.  There is more to diving capabilities then the mach limit, as already discussed.  Or one could argue it had the flaps because it could quickly achieve speeds other planes couldn't.  

Recovery flaps are not for slowing plane down, they allow pilot to pull out of the dive. And this problems appear for P-47 at lower speed then in P-51 for example.

Dive flaps and recovery dive flaps are different things, first you deploy before dive, recovery you deploy if you get too much speed and pull out via elevator is not possible.

P-47 when enters compresibility is unable to pull out of the dive due to complete loss of elevator authority, trim system is based on trim tabs so using trim changes nothing.

Difference between P-38 and P-47 is that P-47 is leaving compressibility  at much higher alt allowing pilot to safe recover, so after all P-47 is not excellent diver and not terible diver as well, something i would say average.

Edited May 18, 2021 by grafspee

[thrustvector]

bit late on what you said earlier, but its not on of the most disliked planes far from it it used a very lot, and is a great ground pounder, you just need to put in the work an learn it better than some other easier options

[grafspee]

This is about P-38 test pilot interview. Compressibility in P-38 it looks like.

P-38 high speed problem was much larger then P-47.

 

Edited May 18, 2021 by grafspee

[Ravenus]

Guys the combat environment in the other sim and this one vs real life is very different. The p47 during the war in 1943 was up against the 109 g-6 w/o MW-50 and it fought it at high altitudes in large numbers. There was a hard deck that the p-47 wasn´t allowed to go below ( even though they did at times). In the sim, p-47 on most MP servers are fighting against 109 g-14s, D-9s and K-4s and at lower altitudes because ppl aint got time to climb 30 min to 30 000 feet. Gee, no wonder it´s a turd. 

 

The p47 wasnt a beast ppl make it out to be. It was very good in the flight areas it excelled at and in 1943-mid 44.

 

 

[kablamoman]

I've got a bit of experience in that other sim, in adversarial multiplayer, so I think I've got a couple observations.

 

The things that hurt it in that other sim:

 

If it gets single-shot by HE rounds, it either explodes or incurs such terrible aerodynamic drag penalties that it is useless. Its armament of AP only .50cal might as well be spit wads, as they are simulated on the other side of the fence -- so you can't take nor can you deliver any meaningful damage. With regards to the FM, it is an absolute dog. It doesn't retain energy (inertia doesn't seem to be a thing), something it should be really good at considering its mass. It also doesn't seem to be able to turn at all in any meaningful way without absolutely bleeding all of its energy, and because of awful acceleration, it's impossible to get it back.

 

These things combined make it a bit of a meme choice. It's really not good at anything except maybe power output at altitude, and maybe climb with the paddle prop if the pilot knows how to mitigate some of the other absolutely crippling deficiencies (there's some funky FM breaking stuff you can do with flaps, but it's pretty ridiculous, and could get you into trouble if you don't know what you're doing).

 

Long story short, if you see one online it's an easy kill 99% of the time.

 

By contrast, in my limited time so far in DCS, the damage modeling and armament don't seem to be a factor either way. And you can absolutely pull the thing around and it turns at low level surprisingly well. I'd need to give it more time, but it seems far more competitive in DCS.

[grafspee]

I have both, things are a bit different in DCS. I have to watch MP all the time since ram air can add up a lot of boost sometime exceeding 52" in dive. It turns very well at high speed, actually i have to be very careful on my stick inputs to not bleed too much energy. Fact that i can boost P-47 at 52" at 34k is crazy

Only drawback is that climb rate is not great so i cant regain energy as fast as other planes, even at WET power climb rate is not mind blowing, but imho this is what i expected from very heavy plane.

Edited July 16, 2021 by grafspee