Jump to content

F-14 vs AI


Spurts

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, Spurts said:

Okay, turning fight against a MiG-15, not happening, sheesh.  Play an energy fight and I burn him right quick.

Hold on, i think i had a video about that, a 1 V 4 VS a MiG-15, gunzo:
 


and in the F-18
 

 

Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Neat vid with the Cat, but I noticed it was more like 1v1 because the first three he shot down never engaged and he got into position as they were flying away from him for seemingly no reason.  Definitely used energy tactics for 90% of the video, keeping speed high whenever possible to ruin the shot, use vertical to build speed.  Even the defensive level turn he did was turning just hard enough to stay out of lead and build energy to extend.  Overall well done.  Very different set of tactics than when I am fighting multiple 4th gens.  

 

*EDIT*  Just did another bout trying to turn with him instead of just zooming.  Got him.  The cat is handling great today.


Edited by Spurts
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Spurts said:

Neat vid with the Cat, but I noticed it was more like 1v1 because the first three he shot down never engaged and he got into position as they were flying away from him for seemingly no reason.  Definitely used energy tactics for 90% of the video, keeping speed high whenever possible to ruin the shot, use vertical to build speed.  Even the defensive level turn he did was turning just hard enough to stay out of lead and build energy to extend.  Overall well done.  Very different set of tactics than when I am fighting multiple 4th gens.  

 

*EDIT*  Just did another bout trying to turn with him instead of just zooming.  Got him.  The cat is handling great today.

 

It's possible yes, just that sometimes they will decide to keep doing loops and there goes your perfect turn...... 😕
This was done way back, before the November patch if memory serves. I wonder if i could pull it off in the F-14A, with the flight model in its current state. It should be fun, and tomorrow is Saturday, so.....why not? 😄 The general strategy should still be the same, stay fast, use energy sparingly and try not bleed yourself dry even more so then in the F-14B.

Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Spurts said:

That was you flying in the vid? Well done!

Yep! Thanks mate!
Also, i decided to pull an all-nighter and do it in the F-14A.........aaaand i sort of did it, but also kinda didn't 😕
Those changes ED made to the AI a while ago? Well, it seams like now, if the AI doesn't get you in certain amount of time, there's a high chance it will just give up. I actually recorded the fight (it's undergoing compression right now, will upload it tomorrow) and you'll see it's nowhere near as fun. More then half of it is actually chasing. At first i thought the bandits ran out of ammo, but when i checked the mission debrief screen, i saw very few rounds being fired. Maybe they ran out of fuel? But it's the same mission as before (only with clouds added), and they never ran out of fuel on the previous tries.......

  • Like 1

Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is that fight....... i must admit, i like the new Ai behavior
 

 

  • Like 1

Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Spurts said:

I notice you are up between 20,000 and 30,000.  So you think that helps give you an edge on them? I'm fighting them at 10,000 and lower. 

I think so. They turn too good down low (i've seen one match my turn until i literally ran out of fuel hanging with him, but if i pulled any harder to get a lead, he would get away because i bled) to dispatch them quickly enough not to become their prey in the act of doing so. And as much as they don't stall, their top speeds and acceleration aren't that good up there. Neither is ours, but we have a burner to aid us. On top of that our fuel consumption is lowered as well.

What are your experiences from fighting them at 10000?


Edited by captain_dalan

Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, captain_dalan said:


What are your experiences from fighting them at 10000?

 

Not sure how the pictures will come through, but here it goes.

 

When I did an energy fight I entered at 1.05M to his 0.58, roughly 12,000ft altitude.  I did a zoom climbing turn up to 33,000ft still at 0.74M while he petered out at 0.18M at 19,000ft.  Once I saw his nose fall I dove on him and gunned him.  Easy.  Felt like cheating.

 

When I did an Angles fight I entered at 0.88M to his 0.64M, roughly 14,000ft altitude.  After some level turns and reverses he was largely on my tail so I did a climbing turn which he nearly matched because my energy was beaten down from trying to get my nose on him.  When he got close and slow enough I ruder turned into a descending spiral.  By the time we bottomed out at 2,000ft he was behind me and faster than me.  A couple of Immelmans later I bled his speed.  This turned into another descending spiral that I won, but by the time I was in his control zone he was level (ready to climb) and at 0.53M while I was still 50-60 degrees nose down at 0.43M and 40+AoA.  I was not able to effectively capitalize of getting behind him and after some looping and barrel rolling he had neutralized my advantage and was behind me again at 4,000ft.  A hard 45-50AoA rudder roll forced an overshoot and he went defensive vertically.  I unloaded and dropped the nose to get speed up, I bottomed out at 800ft and 0.46M (300kt).  He was at 5,500ft and 0.31M by this point.  I gently pulled up (10-15AoA to keep my energy) and when I came over the top at 6,300ft, still at 0.43M, he was trying to turn back into me.  I opened fire from 1,000ft and hit him enough that he bailed out.  It was a high aspect face shot.

 

So basically if they get you slow you have to fight hard and use power to get out of it because they will turn inside you and climb fairly well at low speed.  I often lose right here if they are too close to me when I start to climb.  That 37mm is no joke.  They have no answer to high AoA reversals other than to take advantage of your lost energy and go vertical.  

Energy 1 Merge.PNG

Energy 2 Bleed.PNG

Energy 3 Kill.PNG

Turn 1 Merge.PNG

Turn 2 no progress and losing.PNG

Turn 3 Power out.PNG

Turn 4 Turn the tables.PNG

Turn 6 neutral.PNG

Turn 9 Kill.PNG

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmm sounds similar to my attempts at turning with him. Though, last night i did something i haven't really try since the plane came out, and that is max AoA turns. I managed to actually complete a 270 degree 33 AoA degrees break (max lift) without losing any altitude, from 330 to 130 knots. I have no idea if this will prove useful against an AI, the next time i start DCS i will try it for one-on-ones. I just need to perfect my rudder inputs first so i stay coordinated through the entire turn. 

Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I did try fighting him low and slow (mostly bellow 10kft and bellow 350kn) last night, ended up with a similar kill to yours. As suspected a max lift turn is useless against an AI that initiate a 5g climb at 300 knots and end up at the top of the egg at no less then 200, higher then you. It just continues it's cycle unfazed after i've bled all my knots in 270 degrees. Anyway, matching its turn is possible, but exceeding it not. At least not in a sustained fashion. The only way i found i could pull it off was to start above 400 knots and bleeding down to 330, then unloading or diving and repeating it again and again, resulting in a higher average turn rate then i would have if i stayed 330-350 at all times.

Unfortunately, as that airspeed range was outside the scope if this drill, i just couldn't do it. Eventually he took the fight up, and i ended up slowly losing angles AND fuel. Eventually i was able to save on enough knots to cut into his egg, and gunning him on his way down, before he regained his airspeed. I will try to post the tacview later on.

Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There it is, sorry for the choice of music, but it's a rainy day and such weather always makes want to listen to PF
 

 

  • Like 1

Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks mate!

Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Unrelated, but just to illustrate the vast difference between fighting the AI's VS fighting other human opponents.  Not to put one over the other,  but differentiate  between the nature of the challenges:
 

 

Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
30 minutes ago, Raubritter said:

 

Awesome footage!

Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...