The JF-17 air to air missiles have exaggerated warhead mass?

[85th_Maverick]

The data at the encyclopedia tells that the PL-12 this missile has the same warhead weight as an AIM-120 (22kgs), but it does an apparent damage similar to a 1000lb bomb next to you! If a PL-12 just self-detonates some 15-20m away from your aircraft, it pulverizes the aircraft in most of the times. The same goes for the IR missiles. Maybe it was just my bad luck during AI tests to see that, but if someone has the authority to check these missiles files data and confirm that the warhead mass or warhead damage numbers are right, it would be great. Cheers!

[Northstar98]

AFAIK this is done to offset the fact that DCS doesn't have any fragmentation modelling; IIRC most AA missiles (particularly those with large fusing distances) had their warheads boosted by 500% to compensate for it.

Edited May 15, 2021 by Northstar98

[85th_Maverick]

On 5/15/2021 at 2:50 PM, Northstar98 said:

AFAIK this is done to offset the fact that DCS doesn't have any fragmentation modelling; IIRC most AA missiles (particularly those with large fusing distances) had their warheads boosted by 500% to compensate for it.

 

Copy that! Thanks. So, yes it makes sense to compensate for the modeling limitations that you simulate a bigger blast to compare the damage to that done by fragmentation, but still, these 2 JF-17 missiles make a very big boom compared to an AIM-120/R-77/R-27, when the encyclopedia in game tells that they should be very similar!

[Northstar98]

48 minutes ago, 85th_Maverick said:

Copy that! Thanks. So, yes it makes sense to compensate for the modeling limitations that you simulate a bigger blast to compare the damage to that done by fragmentation, but still, these 2 JF-17 missiles make a very big boom compared to an AIM-120/R-77/R-27, when the encyclopedia in game tells that they should be very similar!

 

Unfortunately they've hidden the .lua files where all these values are stored, so I can't answer precisely what's going on.

 

I'm pretty sure I remember a 500% boost to the AIM-120 warhead but I didn't look at the PL-12/SD-10.

 

As for the encyclopaedia, the values it gives may not line up with what's actually defined.

 

Hopefully in the future, we'll get fragmentation modelling, along with better warhead modelling in general, as well as a superior damage model. The only thing I'm worried about is performance, but hopefully it should be possible. When that day happens hopefully this will cease to be an issue.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Northstar98

[nighthawk2174]

IIRC there is a multiplier added to some A/A warheads to give it a bit of a boost over the raw explosive value.

[Oceandar]

I noticed this too. It would only need one SD-10 to bring down the F-14 while with Amraam you would always need 2.
TBH I could not care less with this and tend to like it especially against F-14.

Little OT sorry, Some F-14 pilots in MP easily could change slot when they took damage to deny a kill. Well .....with SD-10 they would down almost instantly.

[Northstar98]

7 hours ago, Oceandar said:

I noticed this too. It would only need one SD-10 to bring down the F-14 while with Amraam you would always need 2.
TBH I could not care less with this and tend to like it especially against F-14.

Little OT sorry, Some F-14 pilots in MP easily could change slot when they took damage to deny a kill. Well .....with SD-10 they would down almost instantly.

 

I'm fairly sure the AIM-120 had a boosted warhead too, and it would've been the same value.

 

As I said above, it's done because the warheads of A/A missiles typically rely on fragmentation, and there's no fragmentation modelling at all in DCS.

[85th_Maverick]

On 7/10/2021 at 2:13 PM, Northstar98 said:

 

I'm fairly sure the AIM-120 had a boosted warhead too, and it would've been the same value.

 

As I said above, it's done because the warheads of A/A missiles typically rely on fragmentation, and there's no fragmentation modelling at all in DCS.

Then these JF-17 AA missiles must have their warhead tuned down a little bit cause even without the frag modelling, these missiles are exploding like some small nukes next to your plane. A better tweak would be a good remedy!

[opps]

SD-10 has very similar size and wight to AIM-7, so it's bigger and heavier than AIM-120. Actually, both have very similar warhead in DCS(39kg for AIM-7 and 40kg for SD-10 vs 18.7kg for AIM-120).

 

 

 

Edited August 3, 2022 by opps

[Tiger-II]

Ahh another anti JF-17 post.

AIM-120 is over-modelled too, and bombs lack the ability for splash damage, and munitions have too much drag, but don't let that bother you.