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What happened to the Mk 40, Mk 63 and Mk 77?


Northstar98

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Like I said, not cool to erase/change historic content.

 

I understand your positions and do no accept them.

 

Thanks

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On 5/20/2021 at 12:12 PM, Silver_Dragon said:

"All has subject to change"

Yeah, but there's usually a reason for it, and sometimes even discussion about it, here there isn't... Just saying.

Like with the BS3 which fell into limbo after that Russian law, very reasonable stuff.

And with the Mk 77 and GEN-X, they were on the roadmap for 2020 but they've been removed from the previous planned features. All I want to know is what's going on?


Edited by Northstar98
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2 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

 

We made it very clear the list was subject to change. 

 

People like to skip that part it seems. 

You would do better avoiding sarcastic comments when you are under pressure.

 

Whether is it subject to change or not the scummy bait and switch is unethical, and the sneaky removal of the features from the list is borderline "legal" because of that little line you like to quote.

 

This happens time and time again. You guys either don't learn that the community notices these things, or you stopped caring at all.

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2 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

 

Yeah, but there's usually a reason for it, and sometimes even discussion about it, here there isn't... Just saying.

 

Like with the BS3 which fell into limbo after that Russian law, very reasonable stuff.

 

And with the Mk 77 and GEN-X, they were on the roadmap for 2020 but they've been removed from the previous planned features. All I want to know is what's going on?

 

 

If you check the Kate post, the Mk-77 and Gen-X has planned during 2021 and after. The only missing on that list, has the naval mines.


Edited by Silver_Dragon
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On 5/20/2021 at 12:17 PM, Silver_Dragon said:

 

If you check the Kate post, the Mk-77 and Gen-X has planned during 2021 and after.

But then why have they recently removed them in the older thread? It doesn't make any sense.


Edited by Northstar98
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Just now, Silver_Dragon said:

 

If you check the Kate post, the Mk-77 and Gen-X has planned during 2021 and after.

Why delete it from the list then?

 

What's your point exactly?

 

Where is the detailed list of EA features and "Product sustainment" Features?

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  • ED Team

Our product description is here 

 

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/shop/modules/hornet/

 

 

 

 

We have edited the post above as weapons and sensors have been added or removed, which is why we clearly stated it was subject to change from the start. 

 

 

 

 

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It has changed, as per the caution. Product needs to go to the release mode so they can shift resources. This is normal business decision. 

Features got trimmed to achieve that, unannounced, usual style by ED.

Missing features will see a daylight one day I still believe. Nothing more to discuss here, lets move on. 

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1 hour ago, BIGNEWY said:

Our product description is here 

 

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/shop/modules/hornet/

 

 

 

 

We have edited the post above as weapons and sensors have been added or removed, which is why we clearly stated it was subject to change from the start. 

 

 

 

 

This is nowhere near what I asked.

 

I guess asking is a right and answering is a courtesy, right?

 

I bet such a list doesn't even exists, which is alarming to say the least.

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1 hour ago, BIGNEWY said:

Our product description is here 

 

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/shop/modules/hornet/

 

 

 

 

We have edited the post above as weapons and sensors have been added or removed, which is why we clearly stated it was subject to change from the start. 

 

 

 

 


Yes, we understand the term subject to change. Me personally, I do not mind the removal of said munitions. What I do mind is, when you (ED), silently edit a post, which was made many months ago. People just can miss it.

Instead, what I'd love to see, is a post which states that a feature is postponed/removed in order to get a notification. Can clear up a lot of confusion and everybody will be satisfied. 


Edited by Arikaj
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On 5/20/2021 at 2:12 PM, Arikaj said:

Yes, we understand the term subject to change. Me personally, I do not mind the removal of said munitions. What I do mind is, when you (ED), silently edit a post, which was made many months ago. People just can miss it.

Instead, what I'd love to see, is a post which states that a feature is postponed/removed in order to get a notification. Can clear up a lot of confusion and everybody will be satisfied. 

While I was excited for the sea mines (as it involves greater ASW expansion, but not a super big deal compared to plenty of other items). This is my main issue here.

I just want to know what's going on, if these are getting axed/postponed why?

Just for some examples:

"The sea mines will require lots of work to complete, in particular facilitating underwater explosions. We also feel that the damage model for ships and submarines is not in a place where we'd consider such weapons to be appropriate right now".

You can say the same thing about the Mk-77 which will require defining a completely new warhead, new graphical effects, as well as a damage model upgrade to facilitate it. You might also, have to upgrade the maps or something to facilitate fire propagation.


Edited by Northstar98

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1 hour ago, Northstar98 said:

(as it involves greater ASW expansion, but not a super big deal compared to plenty of other items).

This is presumably why they got delayed. All three of those weapons would currently have exactly zero use in DCS and would require significant work to implement. In fact, we don't have any mines at all, despite GATOR mine dispensers being in use with both USAF and Navy (and with Russian KGMUs being compatible with mines as well). I'd love to have CBU-deployed mines, but this is a system that would likely require fundamental changes to the way weapons are handle. Seeing as we don't even have bombs with delayed detonation, I suspect the problem is that they would have to persist after impact.

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On 5/20/2021 at 3:20 PM, Dragon1-1 said:

Seeing as we don't even have bombs with delayed detonation, I suspect the problem is that they would have to persist after impact.

Yes we do, I'm pretty sure the Fw 190s and Bf 109 have a delayed fusing option for the bomb. You don't see the bomb stick out of the ground or anything like you might in WT or something, but it does go off.

As for land mines, there already is a static object and it is functional as is.


Edited by Northstar98

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On 5/20/2021 at 3:51 PM, Northstar98 said:

 

While I was excited for the sea mines (as it involves greater ASW expansion, but not a super big deal compared to plenty of other items). This is my main issue here.

 

I just want to know what's going on, if these are getting axed/postponed why?

 

Just for some examples:

 

"The sea mines will require lots of work to complete, in particular facilitating underwater explosions. We also feel that the damage model for ships and submarines is not in a place where we'd consider such weapons to be appropriate right now".

 

You can say the same thing about the Mk-77 which will require defining a completely new warhead, (...).

 

Quote from the Hornet mini updates i suggested on page 1:

 

"Also, we have had to move the Mk-77 to the post-Early Access release list for weapons. Not only will the Mk-77 require a new object and napalm effect, but an all new warhead type needs to be created (quite different than HE and pen-aid warheads) and all units and objects will need to be updated to account for this all, new weapon type. As you might imagine, it's going to be a lot of work to support this."

 

 

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On 5/22/2021 at 11:56 AM, Rescue said:

 

Quote from the Hornet mini updates i suggested on page 1:

 

"Also, we have had to move the Mk-77 to the post-Early Access release list for weapons. Not only will the Mk-77 require a new object and napalm effect, but an all new warhead type needs to be created (quite different than HE and pen-aid warheads) and all units and objects will need to be updated to account for this all, new weapon type. As you might imagine, it's going to be a lot of work to support this."

Yeah, I linked and quoted that in one of my earlier posts on page 1.


Edited by Northstar98
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On 5/19/2021 at 12:29 PM, Silver_Dragon said:

 

Remember that weapons has not exclusive from Hornet, others aircrafts can use them. That require build Schemes and funtionality, similar to Mk-77 fire bomb (implement realistic weapons).

 

Mavs work differently on each airplane.

Litening works different on each airplane.

Harm works different on each airplane.

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2 hours ago, deadpool said:

 

Mavs work differently on each airplane.

Litening works different on each airplane.

Harm works different on each airplane.

 

Systems and software works differently on each airplane, the weapons are the same with the same weapon description, scheme and characteristics.

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43 minutes ago, Silver_Dragon said:

 

Systems and software works differently on each airplane, the weapons are the same with the same weapon description, scheme and characteristics.

 

They are coded different in the planes, as you can see in different behaviour, etc. whereas in reality some of those weapons just generate an analog video stream, get enriched with icons etc. before being displayed in the cockpit on various displays.

In DCS the MAV was build once for the hornet, and then build realistically again for the Viper, and now they are adapting the Hornet version to be more realistic.

This is not bulding it once.

 

As for the Litening, seeing how changes in zoom seem to affect the Hornet atm and not the other platforms, I can only guess that it's not one common codebase either. So more than necessary effort.

 

Etc. No offence, but it just means that other aircraft can't just use them.

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3 hours ago, deadpool said:

 

Mavs work differently on each airplane.

Litening works different on each airplane.

Harm works different on each airplane.

 

Different software suites, each aircraft have their own avionics and procedures. Its not one way fits all. 

 

thanks

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From NineLine on Reddit:

Quote

We never denied it, the sea mines and fire bombs needed to be removed as they need added work before they can be done and we didn't want that to hold up EA.

 

And we never used the words promised, this list was always subject to change, and those 2 weapons are not tossed in the trash forever, its just that they require more specialized work that we don't have the manpower for right this minute, napalm effects and more dynamic sea combat are all things we want to do. Thanks.

Why couldn't this be announced like this in the first place? Instead of dropping them off of an old list, with nothing said in the 2020 roadmap thread, or in the Hornet mini-updates?

"We don't have the manpower right now, and there's prerequisite xxxx currently absent in DCS (underwater explosion modelling, influence fuses, fire effects, fire propagation dynamics, damage modelling etc), which needs to be done before these weapons get added. This requires more work that needs doing which will be more work than we can muster right now."

This is all very reasonable stuff, I don't get why it wasn't just announced.

And if you really want to get it out of EA (which has questionable meaning anyway), why not just say they're planned, but it's something much further in future, after EA?

I just feel like this mess could've been avoided so easily with just some more transparency. 


Edited by Northstar98
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Modules I own: F-14A/B, Mi-24P, AV-8B N/A, AJS 37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk.

Terrains I own: South Atlantic, Syria, The Channel, SoH/PG, Marianas.

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On 5/23/2021 at 1:01 PM, IkarusC42B Pilot said:

Also agm45

Yeah, though that doesn't exactly fit on our F/A-18C, though again, the same can be said about AGM-62, AGM-84E and LITENING.

Would definitely be useful on A-6E though.


Edited by Northstar98
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Modules I own: F-14A/B, Mi-24P, AV-8B N/A, AJS 37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk.

Terrains I own: South Atlantic, Syria, The Channel, SoH/PG, Marianas.

System:

GIGABYTE B650 AORUS ELITE AX, AMD Ryzen 5 7600, Corsair Vengeance DDR5-5200 32 GB, Western Digital Black SN850X 1 TB (DCS dedicated) & 2 TB NVMe SSDs, Corsair RM850X 850 W, NZXT H7 Flow, MSI G274CV.

Peripherals: VKB Gunfighter Mk.II w. MCG Pro, MFG Crosswind V3 Graphite, Logitech Extreme 3D Pro.

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