Vive Pro 2

[Lurker]

8 hours ago, Taz1004 said:

 

I don't really care what anyone buys.  I don't work for HTC.  I'm just correcting mis-information for others.  Vive needing dedicated gaming room being another.

Also not having to deal with WMR is one less headache.

 

 

I don't have the space to place base-stations. Or rather I don't have the time to set up the base stations, each time I want to use VR. It's a matter of convenience, and preference. If someone else is thinking about buying this headset, they might want to hear another perspective. 

I've never used WMR, and the headaches of WMR is another reason why I've avoided getting the Reverb G2. 

[Taz1004]

11 minutes ago, Lange_666 said:

 

Nobody said that a Vive setup needs a dedicated gaming room, there was just said that people don't always want base stations hanging/standing around in their living room if that living room is the place where their PC stands.

Also, not every headset needs WMR,  nor SteamVR to work (Oculus) like many people think.

It would be nice to have:

- Decent inside out tracking without the need for a (or multiple) base stations to be placed around. If one needs better tracking there is always the option then to place such stations (now with Vive it's mandatory).

- Direct ingame VR control (call it a standard) without the need for WMR/SteamVR/OpenVR or whatever to act as passagedoor into VR. The way it is now for headset that rely on WMR/SteamVR is way too complex with way to many settings to deal with (maybe not for everybody but for many average user).

 

 

Once again, I'm sure anyone can come up with any reason to dislike any product.  I really do not care.  I just think it's sad to see people to make wrong choice based on incorrect assumptions of others.

 

And your last point is not possible.  It needs an API.  Maybe MS can integrate the API into DirectX.  But still needs settings as not all headsets are same.  And I agree too many settings are too complex.  Which is why I said "Also not having to deal with WMR is one less headache."

Edited May 25, 2021 by Taz1004

[BIGNEWY]

feel free to share your opinions, it dont make you right and people can disagree. No point arguing, accept you have different opinions and move on.

 

thanks

[dburne]

I have two headsets I use currently.

Reverb G2 - flight and racing sims.

Valve Index - Made for VR games that utilize controllers.

 

Inside out tracking of Reverb G2 works just fine with flight and racing sims. Image clarity is a little better as well.

However, one misses out somewhat by limiting to just flight or racing sims. There are some really great made for VR games that utilize the controllers quite well. Here the Lighthouse tracking of the Index really shines. I had my two stations set up in like 15 min and have not touched them since. And I have a fairly small play area. 

 

I have the Vive Pro 2 on pre-order, hoping that will allow me to go back to just one headset for everyday use.

But if one is really just going to do say flight sims, I would not recommend going all out on and Index or upcoming Vive Pro 2 setup with Lighthouse system. Currently though for flight or racing sims I would say Reverb G2 is king when considering both quality and cost.

[A2597]

Initial reviews are due out tomorrow (MRTV for one has stated he'll be releasing his review on the 27th).

Once that's in, I will know if I'm getting a Vive 2 Pro, or the Reverb G2.

 

[Supmua]

He tends to overhype any new VR headsets just so you know.  But an early review is better than no review, at least there is bound to some objective info. 

[Svsmokey]

Voodooe (?) Is reviewing the Pro 2 about 7 hrs from now as well .

[Eldur]

 

Long story short: Bad vFOV and a tiny sweet spot.

[FoxTwo]

3 hours ago, Eldur said:

 

Long story short: Bad vFOV and a tiny sweet spot.

 

He was running it in the wrong mode. From reddit:

 

Quote

Big flaw in the review, he ran it only in upsampling mode. And he ran it sometimes upsampled from nearly as low as Vive 1 resolution. You can see in the vive menu output res extreme corresponds to the exact panel resolution of both eyes, and he chose something much lower.

The Vive software side setting is the output target for the compositor, which should be set to full panel res unless you don't have a 2000+ series GPU with display stream compression. The steamvr side he is confused by is the input side to the compositor, from the app or game.

 

I'd wait for more reviews before making a decision, either way.

[Supmua]

This is the guy that measured HFOV 78 degree for the G2, so keep that in mind.  Overall though, it seems to be a pretty much a Vive Pro with a new screen which can be good or bad depending on your perspective on that headset.  I’ll have to do my own measurement on the FOV because the numbers can vary based on your facial structure (I only get around 100 deg horizontal and 90 vertical FOV with the Index on my face--the way I measured FOV is by checking peripheral edge of vision while looking straight without glancing, the kind of test your doctors do to check your peripheral vision as nobody has the exact same numbers).  According Reddit\Vive, synthetic OpenVR benchmark showed around 117H/96V (in ideal case) so I think HFOV is fine but VFOV is a bit lowish.

Edited May 27, 2021 by Supmua

[Supmua]

1 hour ago, FoxTwo said:

 

He was running it in the wrong mode. From reddit:

 

 

I'd wait for more reviews before making a decision, either way.

 

Apparently he didn't use the full panel res but some sort of downsampling mode, but I don't think this is entirely his fault since he probably didn't know.  HTC should've done a better job educating their reviewers regarding how to optimally set the headset, their software settings can probably use a better explanation rather than performance, high and extreme.

 

Anyway, what I get from this review is that unless you have fairly powerful GPU with DP1.4 connection or something equivalent you may be limited to down sampling mode due to the 5K resolution that requires massive bandwidth for full graphics output.  

Edited May 27, 2021 by Supmua

[Eugel]

2 hours ago, Supmua said:

 

Apparently he didn't use the full panel res but some sort of downsampling mode, but I don't think this is entirely his fault since he probably didn't know.  

 

Isn´t that a necessity anyway  as Display port 1.4 does not support the full resolution at 120 Hz ?

[Pride37]

On 5/25/2021 at 11:58 AM, Lurker said:

 

I don't have the space to place base-stations. Or rather I don't have the time to set up the base stations, each time I want to use VR. It's a matter of convenience, and preference. If someone else is thinking about buying this headset, they might want to hear another perspective. 

I've never used WMR, and the headaches of WMR is another reason why I've avoided getting the Reverb G2. 

 

I wouldn't say that WMR by itself is such a headhache, it works pretty well. Where it starts to hurt is when we're tied to SteamVR to make games (DCS particularly) to work in VR... And then it's a mess and a real pain in the bottom to setup and run everything properly. And let's say honnestly, we need to use SteamVR 95% of the time for gaming.

That's why I'm dreaming of a proper native integration in DCS as what has been done for Oculus headsets, or OpenXR integration like for "the other civil sim" (for which I have absolutely no clue if it can be easilly done, or requires a full core code rewrite...)

Maybe @BIGNEWY would be kind to make a status update or precisions on those points... Users of "the other sim" seemed to experience a dramatic performance increase when using OpenXR instead of SteamVR.

Concerning tracking performances, I only have experience on Rift S and Reverb G2. I wouldn't speak about basestations, except there is a general consensus to praise them as the best traking system. But Rift S was pretty solid for me, never experienced any flaw. For the G2, it's clearly not on par with Oculus, but depending on the games played, it's annoying (Asgard's Wrath using Revive) to almost unnoticeable (Alyx). For flight and racing sims only, I'm not so sure if the price difference between basestations and inside/out tracking justify the (possible) negligible difference in head tracking only (for those like me who don't use the hand controllers in sim games)

Edited May 27, 2021 by Pride37

[BIGNEWY]

20 minutes ago, Pride37 said:

Maybe @BIGNEWY would be kind to make a status update or precisions on those points... Users of "the other sim" seemed to experience a dramatic performance increase when using OpenXR instead of SteamVR.

 

OpenXR is something the team are looking into, but I dont have any news to share currently.

 

thanks

[Supmua]

1 hour ago, Eugel said:

Isn´t that a necessity anyway  as Display port 1.4 does not support the full resolution at 120 Hz ?

 

In High mode that he used, the actual output resolution is half of native 2448x2448 (per screen) which was then upscaled or supersampled if you will by software similar to Quest 2 via Link and that's why people are complaining that images are somewhat blurry.  You are right that DP 1.4 doesn't support 5K at 120Hz, but it will at lower frequency setting.  DP 2.0 will do this (and maybe HDMI 2.1) but there is no current GPU card that has DP 2.0, and there is no headset that has either DP 2.0 or HDMI 2.1 output.  

 

So my point is that you don't want to run graphics intensive games such as DCS at 120Hz because resolution will suffer, this is also the reason why the Reverb is not offering 120Hz because there is not enough bandwidth to output full resolution at high frequency.  The current headsets are being limited by its video output bandwith even though the resolution is there, so for VR to really be optimal you will need to have DP 2.0 (or something equivalent) support in both headsets and GPUs which will not be possible in this generation.

 

21 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

 

OpenXR is something the team are looking into, but I dont have any news to share currently.

 

thanks

 

This is good news since OpenXR is the future of VR.

Edited May 27, 2021 by Supmua

[peachmonkey]

a little bit more positive review:

 

 

[A2597]

I'm still torn after the initial reviews.

 

VR Oasis just released his take too:

 

1k is a lot of money for me, but I really want a wider FOV with higher clarity than my CV1.

 

G2 gets high clarity

Vive Pro 2 gets FOV, with middle clarity

Index gets FOV with low clarity

 

 

Kinda leaning towards Vive Pro 2 just because roomscale, but...good grief the cost of entry is high. (Need whole set, can save some by getting V1 lighthouses, but still)

Edited May 27, 2021 by A2597

[prowler5150]

The reviews I've seen have all based part of the rating on the controllers and/or how the headset looks on the outside.  They should be focusing on how it looks through the lenses.  The comparisons to VP1 or Index with respect to visual fidelity have been lacking detail as well.

I'd like to know more about the HTC software also.  What exactly is it doing?  HTC's software was not required to run the Vive or Vive Pro1.  Is it truly required for Vive Pro2?  What happens if you don't install the HTC software - can't you change resolutions (sub-sample) and tweak motion smoothing with SteamVR?

Edited May 27, 2021 by prowler5150

[Lange_666]

27 minutes ago, prowler5150 said:

 and/or how the headset looks on the outside rather than focus how it looks through the lenses.

 

The outside of a VR headset is the less important thing of any VR headset unless you wanne go showboating with it on the street?

Edited May 27, 2021 by Lange_666

[Supmua]

49 minutes ago, prowler5150 said:

The reviews I've seen have all based part of the rating on the controllers and/or how the headset looks on the outside.  They should be focusing on how it looks through the lenses.  The comparisons to VP1 or Index with respect to visual fidelity have been lacking detail as well.

I'd like to know more about the HTC software also.  What exactly is it doing?  HTC's software was not required to run the Vive or Vive Pro1.  Is it truly required for Vive Pro2?  What happens if you don't install the HTC software - can't you change resolutions (sub-sample) and tweak motion smoothing with SteamVR?

 

I agree, these early reviews seem superficial and doesn’t really do much besides creating confusion to the consumers. At least they’re attracting YouTube view counts.  The software side is also quite important, they should go into that. 

[A2597]

Hesitant to preorder, I mean, 50$ savings isn't much, but it's something...

but need a *good* review before I feel confident doing so.

[Svsmokey]

1 hour ago, Supmua said:

The software side is also quite important, they should go into that. 

Indeed it is . Can't say i much care for the fact that you must run Viveport and Steam VR with this headset , unlike all previous Vives .

[Pride37]

6 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

 

OpenXR is something the team are looking into, but I dont have any news to share currently.

 

thanks

 

Thanks for the quick feedback, BN.

[Supmua]

OK I got some info on the headset output settings.

Performance: 2448x1224, 120 Hz

Balanced: 3264x1632, 90 Hz

High: 3627x1836, 90 Hz

Ultra: 4896x2448, 90 Hz

Extreme: 4896x2448, 120 Hz

 

The above are options on HTC Vive app, I'm not sure if it will override SteamVR SS setting or the other way around or some sort of additive effect if you use both.

SteamVR motion smoothing also doesn't appear to work, and this reprojection is set via Vive's own app.  Whether this is the way it is going to be or they'll add SteamVR motion smoothing later on is up in the air.

 

Measurements done by TekNik Lab.  This may or may not agree with those done by others, so don't completely rely on it.

Sharpness (measured by max distance for legible texts):  VPro 2 > Reverb G2 > Pimax 8KX > Index

HFOV: Pimax 8KX > Index > VPro 2 (very close to Index) > Reverb G2

VFOV: Index > Pimax 8KX > Reverb G2/VPro 2

 

[Svsmokey]

9 minutes ago, Supmua said:

OK I got some info on the headset output settings.

Performance: 2448x1224, 120 Hz

Balanced: 3264x1632, 90 Hz

High: 3627x1836, 90 Hz

Ultra: 4896x2448, 90 Hz

Extreme: 4896x2448, 120 Hz

 

The above are options on HTC Vive app, I'm not sure if it will override SteamVR SS setting or the other way around or some sort of additive effect if you use both.

SteamVR motion smoothing also doesn't appear to work, and this reprojection is set via Vive's own app.  Whether this is the way it is going to be or they'll add SteamVR motion smoothing later on is up in the air.

 

Measurements done by TekNik Lab.  This may or may not agree with those done by others, so don't completely rely on it.

Sharpness (measured by max distance for legible texts):  VPro 2 > Reverb G2 > Pimax 8KX > Index

HFOV: Pimax 8KX > Index > VPro 2 (very close to Index) > Reverb G2

VFOV: Index > Pimax 8KX > Reverb G2/VPro 2

 

Very helpful - thanks !