Vive Pro 2

[unltd]

My two cents after one night of installation and use of the HTC Vive Pro 2:

 

Unboxing: packaging all slightly fancier than the G2 but not on par with the original Rift or Rift S.

 

Installation:  relatively painless, goto website download setup .exe, updates and pairing the index controllers all went smoothly.  No issues with WMR settings from my G2 interfering. No issues with my x570 board recognizing the headset--a major advantage over the G2. 

 

Setup:  Pairings with index controllers and light boxes went well but it sure feels like an over complex backward step to return to outside-in tracking (I'm seated for DCS).  Volume and muting on ear is very nice. 

 

Headset:  horrible fit and heavy compared to the G2, major issues with light leakage and eye alignment until making overly tight.  The sweet spot is very difficult to fit each time you don the headset, but it does have fancy IPD adjustment knob.  Also, depending on where you have the light boxes for tracking, each time you block the ir emitters on the headset you lose tracking and your screen shuts off making eye alignment overly difficult. 

 

Sound: on ear speakers are comfortable and can be pulled away from ear if desired, sound quality is noticeably better than both the original rift and G2 and way better than the rift s built-in.

 

Lenses and Screen: much more saturated and vibrant than the G2 at my systems default "extreme" 90Hz setting, similar to the Rift S.   As advertised, the Vive Pro 2 has a noticeably better field of view than G2 and rift and rift S, but has considerably poorer clarity than the G2 but slightly better than the Rift S.  I would describe it as naturally softer panel compared to the G2.  Individual pixels seem to bleed into each other.  Perhaps the overall brightness needs to be turned down a bit but likely it's just a different pixel geometry. 

 

Performance: as noted above in many comments, HTC's motion smoothing is terrible compared to SteamVR or Oculus.  With 2.7 DCS code and current hardware, I prefer motion smoothing in VR to the micro stutters although the Vive Pro 2 is much better than the G2 without motion smoothing enabled.  Hopefully, HTC will rectify this deal breaking oversight or ED will make a big improvement in VR performance.   

 

Conclusion:  specifically for DCS, if you have a G2 already, keep it.  If you don't have a G2, buy it instead of the Vive Pro 2...at least until HTC sorts the motion smoothing.   

 

 

Edited June 9, 2021 by unltd

[Supmua]

51 minutes ago, Headwarp said:

 

And again.. Likely intended for use with the automatic setting to determine the resolution set by Vive Console which has a switch at the top of the display settings page.   Chances are this is obviously bugged, though I appreciate your willingness to dig into file explorer.   I mean.. the headset is fresh out the gate.  I know you'd like to think it's something on my end for some reason.    But I'm pretty confident it's buggy software that will hopefully be addressed.. as the state of software upon release is less than satisfactory.   

 

Can I ask, what makes more sense to you.. A.)automatic resolution scaling setting resolutions despite having disabled that option in both vive console and SteamVR or B.) buggy software for a piece of hardware that's been out for less than a week publicly?  Take a look at reddit and the vive forums and I'm clearly not alone here either.  

 

I am quite capable of measuring my FPS and system performance and have various tools for doing so.  Staying well below 22.2 ms frametime means being capable of maintaining more than the 45fps minimum required for motion compensation @90hz.   If you'd like to ask me what game I'm talking about in the desire to share and compare expeirences. Please PM me and go have a look yourself.  I'd be interested to hear how it compares to motion smoothing in the Index.    

 

 

There is simply no viable reason to have automatic settings which have options to disable them, but they still work when you disable them.   Automatic resolution settings are also something that no VR gamer actually wants afaic, at least not in it's current state.   performance between VR titles varies too much and the available "Auto" settings really just give it their best guess for a general baseline.   If it looks like a bug, smells like a bug.. it's probably a bug. 

 

Anyway, I hope I haven't come off as offensive as anything as you are simply investigating things and trying to help.  But what makes more sense to me is the software is not behaving correctly. And we should be urging HTC to fix it ASAP rather than downplay the significance and stroking their ego.  

 

Here's an article for you that should clear you up at least on SteamVR's side of Automatic resolution scaling so you don't have to take my word for it.. which may lead to the conclusion that the behavior displayed in my video doesn't make any sense once 2 and 2 are put together.    

 

https://bit-tech.net/news/gaming/virtual-reality/steamvr-gets-automatic-supersampling-system/1/  

 

Quoting a line from the article " Naturally, either can be overridden manually for those who prefer full control over their graphical settings."   

 

 

 

 

Sorry, I neither have the time nor the desire to go back and forth with you on this.  I simply posted my observations from messing around with various things on my own, as I'm trying to learn more about this new device.  I agree though that the software is not yet mature and let's leave it at that.  I already did my own part by submitting my feedback, suggestions and wishlist to HTC via Vive console.

[Headwarp]

1 hour ago, Supmua said:

 

Sorry, I neither have the time nor the desire to go back and forth with you on this.  I simply posted my observations from messing around with various things on my own, as I'm trying to learn more about this new device.  I agree though that the software is not yet mature and let's leave it at that.  I already did my own part by submitting my feedback, suggestions and wishlist to HTC via Vive console.

 

I shall do the same.  And yes, let's leave it be.   My apologies my response could've simply been that with betting confidence I believe the numbers you found are related to the feature that can be supposedly be disabled in Vive Console and to reiterate that maintaining less than  22.2ms frametime = more than 45frames per second being quite confident I know my own experiences better than others seem to think they do. 

 

The article was just to give you another source regarding auto settings than me.  

 

For everybody else - Short and sweet version -  My only real complaints are that the software is malfunctioning to an extent that I can't confidently dig in and really see what my machine can do with this headset and that I'm not a fan of motion compensation, IF in fact that's what I'm actually seeing as none of the features seem to be behaving as expected.  Hopefully it will get better.   At the same time.. it's taken years to get to where we are today with WMR and Valve's software.  So here's to hoping Valve and HTC sort out whatever is going wrong sooner than later.  

Edited June 10, 2021 by Headwarp

[dburne]

Nice review of the Vive Pro 2 here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/HPReverb/comments/nviiwh/a_positive_vive_pro_2_review_from_former_g2_and/

 

Gives me a little more hope.

[Supmua]

I've been populating this note since I first received the headset.  Here are my first impressions and observations after several days of usage.  I've used it so much that I started developing nausea and had to take a break at times.

 

Vive Pro 2 Initial Impressions:
 

Specs and features:
This is a 5K headset with 4896x2448 pixels (2448x2448 per eye) that offers 90 and 120 Hz screen refresh rate, with touted 120 degree horizontal FOV (I got 114 wearing glasses, 116 wearing contacts using testhmd app--there are people who got up to 118, YMMV).  The Link box has on/off switch and supports DisplayPort 1.4 connection (32.4 Gbps bandwidth).  For older GPUs with older DP connection, the Ultra (4896x2448 90Hz) and Extreme (4896x2448 120Hz) modes are not available.  
The device also uses digital stream compression (DSC) technology, supposedly lossless video compression to get around the limited bandwitdth at max settings.  It is backward compatible with all Vive peripherals (face tracker, body tracker, wireless module, etc).  It supports wide range of IPDs via knob adjustment (57-70.5 mm), the old trick to support wider IPD from the older Vive still works as you can still force the lens out even further sideway.  
There is a USB-C port inside a hidden compartment on the left inner side of the headset where the video cable comes out.  The cable is long and a lot thinner than the Index's cable, which is a plus for me.

 

Look and feel:
The appearance is a bit dated since it looks exactly the same as the Vive Pro 1 that I still have.  It is rather large compared to more modern designs, so nothing to get excited over.  It sports on-ear type of headphones with different paddings than the Pro 1.  

 

Build quality:
Exact same as the Vive Pro.  It feels more rugged than my Index and Quest 2, and should be able to withstand a bit of abuse.  The predecessor of this was built to be used in arcades.  My Vive Pro has done pretty well in this department and I expect this one to be similar.

 

Software:
Vive uses their own software together with SteamVR, which is a new trend started with the Cosmos.  The default setting is such that the Vive console app will launch whenever the headset is connected.  You can set resolution and refresh rate to auto, but there are also manual options with several settings (Performance, Balanced, High, Ultra, Extreme).  Motion compensation is disabled by default, this is an inferior version of SteamVR's motion smoothing as of now.  This option is crucial for me in several games including DCS and MSFS, mitigating tearing/juddering artifacts.  I did not try wireless mode as I do not have the module.  There is no brightness setting, and it seems to be automatically adjusted based on ambient lighting in your room but I have yet to confirm this aspect.  The software is probably the least mature part of this headset as it currently does not have full compatibility with SteamVR.  Camera view is currently working only with SteamVR beta.  As it is really new, I'm not going to comment much on this since I think things will continue to change via future updates.

 

Realworld Usage:
Comfort-wise, the Vive Pro line remains the most comfortable headset for me so far as it fits well with my facial profile.  It is well balanced on my head not too front or back heavy and also accommodate all types of eyeglasses.  My Index and Quest 2 are a bit front heavy and not comfortable at all with eyeglasses on.  The default facepad is ok but not optimal for glare reduction or FOV, thinner facepads appear to give much better experience in terms of image quality and FOV increase.

 

Image quality-wise, this headset can provide absolutely stunning pictures with zero screendoor effect (or pixel gap, if you will).  The color, contrast, and blacks are better than other VR screens that I've tried except for the Vive Pro's OLED panel.  I had a profound experience when I first put this headset on similar to when I upgraded my TV from 1080p LCD to 4K OLED.  SteamVR Home looks sharp, contrasty, vibrant, and displays details that I've never noticed before such as super shiny reflection on the wooden floor or legible fine texts on objects.  The glare though is as rough as the Index, more noticeable when there are very bright objects against black background.  The sweetspot (position on your head where image remains tact sharp when you look up down left right) is smaller than any headsets that I've own so fitting needs to be exact to achieve the best image clarity.  The edge to edge clarity (sharpness when you glance left-right, up-down) is mostly on par with the Index with good ability to maintain decent clarity in the peripheral vision, much better than the Vive Pro 1.  The Quest 2, which also doesn't have SDE, pales in comparison with less than ideal sharpness when tethered to the PC, poor contrast and not so good black level (this is very evident in games such as Star Wars: Vader Immortal).  I also tried a bunch of games with VorpX, which can give non-VR games 3D stereoscopic effect.  This is probably the perfect headset for this as well (I don't have the G2 but it's probaly up there too), games such as Mass Effect LE look superb in 3D stereo with stunning clarity and no screen door or pixel gaps.

 

Performance-wise, I still think it isn't quite up there with the Index which gives me slightly better fps at similar reported rendering resolution but it is pretty close.  Performance also tends to have an inverse relationship with image quality.  However, due to the very high-res screen everything just looks better on the Vive Pro 2 even at lower rendering resolution.  In DCS, for example, the image quality is so good when used with Reshade VR and still gives me solid 45 fps (frametime <22.2 ms) in most situations.  Shimmering is also minimal when used with MSAA x2, compared to the Index.  Similarly, in MSFS the ground detail is simply mindblowing that I just cannot go back to using other headsets now.  Some caveats, Vive's motion compensation is not great beyond 1:2 ratio.  This means that unless you can maintain 45 fps in 90 Hz mode or 60 fps in 120 Hz mode, you will not enjoy this headset.  And this also means that you will need top of the line computers to drive this thing.  It is like a sportscar that needs to be coupled with a powerful motor engine to realize its full potential.

 

The headphones audio has a faint hum.  This can be heard in a quiet environment, typically not when you are actively gaming.  I'm not sure if this will be fixable via software update or not.  Sound-wise, it is not bad if the headphones are well compressed against your ears.  Unfortunately, they're not designed to do so hence the bass can appear very thin.  There are 3D print solution or simple rubberband placement that can help achieve better seal in order to get better sounds.  For me it is not bad in general gaming, not as good as the Index audio.  But again this is all relative, as the Index's sound quality is still a bottom-tier compared to my home audio set up with specialized DAC, AMP, and headphones.  The microphone needs a pop filter which is an easy fix, but I also heard that the latest software update has reduced the popping sounds significantly.

 

The Pros:
Image quality, wide horizontal FOV, 5K resolution, perfect tracking, full compatibility with other Vive or 3rd party accessories (face/body trackers), manual IPD setting, extra USB-C port, wireless module.

 

The Cons:
Price, glare, audio hum, mic quality, extra accessories needed (base stations), requires powerful PC to drive, software needs more development.

 

Wishlist:
Better integration with SteamVR especially motion smoothing option, more manual control for resolution/brightness/contrast/saturation/sharpness, more Hz modes especially 80 Hz.

 

My Verdict:
A big yes for me.  Image quality trumps everything provided that performance is acceptable, and this is especially true with my setup in complex games such as DCS or MSFS.  In less complex VR games such as Beat Saber, the Extreme mode at 120Hz is just beyond words in terms of fluidity, playability and picture fidelity.  Note that YMMV as we do not have the same tolerance of particular flaws, facial profiles or PC setups.  For me though, this is the go-to VR headset for pretty much everything for the time being.

Edited June 9, 2021 by Supmua

[DucS2r]

Thanks, Supuma for the excellent and comprehensive review. This is basically what I have been waiting for before again placing my original order. I look forward to trying it and hope the software issues are resolved in a timely fashion. 

[FoxTwo]

My TL;DR.

 

If you have the G2 and you like it, you probably won't need to spend the money. I'm sending the vive pro 2 back as I found it uncomfortable to wear and disorienting to the point of slight nausea, which is odd as I have over 2000+ hours in other headsets and haven't had motion sickness in years.

 

Color, contrast, and FoV are an absolute upgrade over the G2. Audio, visual clarity, glare, godrays/chromatic abberation, brightness, and comfort (for me) are downgrades. Durability is a question but so far it feels like the Vive would last longer than the HP with daily use.

 

The stock face pad has what I assume are slots for glasses along the temples. This lets light come into the headset unless the room is pitch black, which (for me) is also a negative.

 

If valve decides to make an Index 2 with these panels and their lenses I'd probably be all over it.

 

If anyone cares, I was able to remove the earphones and use my headset/mic combo that I normally use (a pair of Sony MDR-V6s with a modmic). I had no issues fitting the headphone headband over the headset.

Edited June 10, 2021 by FoxTwo

[SneakyBastd]

Just got my VP2 and had a quick go in F18 caucasus freeflight. I like it! Coming from a 5k+ the FoV was a big concern. But the VP2 FoV is actually decent, and it's considerably clearer. The whole cockpit is readable from the default sitting position. MFDs are clear. It's like a G2 with a much better FoV. The G2 felt like a periscope. The VP2 FoV is good. Not as wide as pimax, and even less so in the vertical, but pretty good.

 

Waiting for the thinner face gasket, as pulling the hmd toward my eyes made a big difference. There is noticeable light leakage I will have to block off - it's distracting. Headset fits well and is comfortable.

 

Lots of tweaking to do, but my concerns about FoV and whether it's worth it to move up from 5k+ are gone - it's going to be a keeper.

 

My 2c!

[SneakyBastd]

For now I've turned MSAA off and just run 100% in SteamVR, which shows 3052 res. I'm holding 45fps which seems to be a motion smoothing feature I can't seem to turn off? Anyone know how to disable that?

Headset runs warmer than my Pimax. It also pulls away from my face when I look down, reducing clarity. I think I'll have to mod it a little to hold it in position, but will wait for the thinner gasket before doing that.

[dburne]

11 hours ago, Supmua said:

I've been populating this note since I first received the headset.  Here are my first impressions and observations after several days of usage.  I've used it so much that I started developing nausea and had to take a break at times.

 

Vive Pro 2 Initial Impressions:
 

Specs and features:
This is a 5K headset with 4896x2448 pixels (2448x2448 per eye) that offers 90 and 120 Hz screen refresh rate, with touted 120 degree horizontal FOV (I got 114 wearing glasses, 116 wearing contacts using testhmd app--there are people who got up to 118, YMMV).  The Link box has on/off switch and supports DisplayPort 1.4 connection (32.4 Gbps bandwidth).  For older GPUs with older DP connection, the Ultra (4896x2448 90Hz) and Extreme (4896x2448 120Hz) modes are not available.  
The device also uses digital stream compression (DSC) technology, supposedly lossless video compression to get around the limited bandwitdth at max settings.  It is backward compatible with all Vive peripherals (face tracker, body tracker, wireless module, etc).  It supports wide range of IPDs via knob adjustment (57-70.5 mm), the old trick to support wider IPD from the older Vive still works as you can still force the lens out even further sideway.  
There is a USB-C port inside a hidden compartment on the left inner side of the headset where the video cable comes out.  The cable is long and a lot thinner than the Index's cable, which is a plus for me.

 

Look and feel:
The appearance is a bit dated since it looks exactly the same as the Vive Pro 1 that I still have.  It is rather large compared to more modern designs, so nothing to get excited over.  It sports on-ear type of headphones with different paddings than the Pro 1.  

 

Build quality:
Exact same as the Vive Pro.  It feels more rugged than my Index and Quest 2, and should be able to withstand a bit of abuse.  The predecessor of this was built to be used in arcades.  My Vive Pro has done pretty well in this department and I expect this one to be similar.

 

Software:
Vive uses their own software together with SteamVR, which is a new trend started with the Cosmos.  The default setting is such that the Vive console app will launch whenever the headset is connected.  You can set resolution and refresh rate to auto, but there are also manual options with several settings (Performance, Balanced, High, Ultra, Extreme).  Motion compensation is disabled by default, this is an inferior version of SteamVR's motion smoothing as of now.  This option is crucial for me in several games including DCS and MSFS, mitigating tearing/juddering artifacts.  I did not try wireless mode as I do not have the module.  There is no brightness setting, and it seems to be automatically adjusted based on ambient lighting in your room but I have yet to confirm this aspect.  The software is probably the least mature part of this headset as it currently does not have full compatibility with SteamVR.  Camera view is currently working only with SteamVR beta.  As it is really new, I'm not going to comment much on this since I think things will continue to change via future updates.

 

Realworld Usage:
Comfort-wise, the Vive Pro line remains the most comfortable headset for me so far as it fits well with my facial profile.  It is well balanced on my head not too front or back heavy and also accommodate all types of eyeglasses.  My Index and Quest 2 are a bit front heavy and not comfortable at all with eyeglasses on.  The default facepad is ok but not optimal for glare reduction or FOV, thinner facepads appear to give much better experience in terms of image quality and FOV increase.

 

Image quality-wise, this headset can provide absolutely stunning pictures with zero screendoor effect (or pixel gap, if you will).  The color, contrast, and blacks are better than other VR screens that I've tried except for the Vive Pro's OLED panel.  I had a profound experience when I first put this headset on similar to when I upgraded my TV from 1080p LCD to 4K OLED.  SteamVR Home looks sharp, contrasty, vibrant, and displays details that I've never noticed before such as super shiny reflection on the wooden floor or legible fine texts on objects.  The glare though is as rough as the Index, more noticeable when there are very bright objects against black background.  The sweetspot (position on your head where image remains tact sharp when you look up down left right) is smaller than any headsets that I've own so fitting needs to be exact to achieve the best image clarity.  The edge to edge clarity (sharpness when you glance left-right, up-down) is mostly on par with the Index with good ability to maintain decent clarity in the peripheral vision, much better than the Vive Pro 1.  The Quest 2, which also doesn't have SDE, pales in comparison with less than ideal sharpness when tethered to the PC, poor contrast and not so good black level (this is very evident in games such as Star Wars: Vader Immortal).  I also tried a bunch of games with VorpX, which can give non-VR games 3D stereoscopic effect.  This is probably the perfect headset for this as well (I don't have the G2 but it's probaly up there too), games such as Mass Effect LE look superb in 3D stereo with stunning clarity and no screen door or pixel gaps.

 

Performance-wise, I still think it isn't quite up there with the Index which gives me slightly better fps at similar reported rendering resolution but it is pretty close.  Performance also tends to have an inverse relationship with image quality.  However, due to the very high-res screen everything just looks better on the Vive Pro 2 even at lower rendering resolution.  In DCS, for example, the image quality is so good when used with Reshade VR and still gives me solid 45 fps (frametime <22.2 ms) in most situations.  Shimmering is also minimal when used with MSAA x2, compared to the Index.  Similarly, in MSFS the ground detail is simply mindblowing that I just cannot go back to using other headsets now.  Some caveats, Vive's motion compensation is not great beyond 1:2 ratio.  This means that unless you can maintain 45 fps in 90 Hz mode or 60 fps in 120 Hz mode, you will not enjoy this headset.  And this also means that you will need top of the line computers to drive this thing.  It is like a sportscar that needs to be coupled with a powerful motor engine to realize its full potential.

 

The headphones audio has a faint hum.  This can be heard in a quiet environment, typically not when you are actively gaming.  I'm not sure if this will be fixable via software update or not.  Sound-wise, it is not bad if the headphones are well compressed against your ears.  Unfortunately, they're not designed to do so hence the bass can appear very thin.  There are 3D print solution or simple rubberband placement that can help achieve better seal in order to get better sounds.  For me it is not bad in general gaming, not as good as the Index audio.  But again this is all relative, as the Index's sound quality is still a bottom-tier compared to my home audio set up with specialized DAC, AMP, and headphones.  The microphone needs a pop filter which is an easy fix, but I also heard that the latest software update has reduced the popping sounds significantly.

 

The Pros:
Image quality, wide horizontal FOV, 5K resolution, perfect tracking, full compatibility with other Vive or 3rd party accessories (face/body trackers), manual IPD setting, extra USB-C port, wireless module.

 

The Cons:
Price, glare, audio hum, mic quality, extra accessories needed (base stations), requires powerful PC to drive, software needs more development.

 

Wishlist:
Better integration with SteamVR especially motion smoothing option, more manual control for resolution/brightness/contrast/saturation/sharpness, more Hz modes especially 80 Hz.

 

My Verdict:
A big yes for me.  Image quality trumps everything provided that performance is acceptable, and this is especially true with my setup in complex games such as DCS or MSFS.  In less complex VR games such as Beat Saber, the Extreme mode at 120Hz is just beyond words in terms of fluidity, playability and picture fidelity.  Note that YMMV as we do not have the same tolerance of particular flaws, facial profiles or PC setups.  For me though, this is the go-to VR headset for pretty much everything for the time being.

 

 

 

Awesome review thanks so much for sharing! My VP2 will be arriving later today. My Kiwi face pads are ready to go, can't wait to test this puppy out.

I am more and more optimistic the more I read, but how Vive handles motion compensation bothers me. I wish they had of just let Steam VR Motion Smoothing handle it. Hopefully they will improve it with software updates.

[dburne]

8 hours ago, SneakyBastd said:

For now I've turned MSAA off and just run 100% in SteamVR, which shows 3052 res. I'm holding 45fps which seems to be a motion smoothing feature I can't seem to turn off? Anyone know how to disable that?

Headset runs warmer than my Pimax. It also pulls away from my face when I look down, reducing clarity. I think I'll have to mod it a little to hold it in position, but will wait for the thinner gasket before doing that.

 

I find at 100% resolution in my Reverb G2 I do not need any MSAA. I expect will be the same with the VP2 for me.

[Supmua]

More info, straight from HTC. https://babeltechreviews.com/the-rtx-3070-ti-launch-review-featuring-the-vive-pro-2/5/?amp=1
 

“Motion Compensation is the same as Motion Smoothing. The new lens and display requires our own motion compensation, and VIVE Console is the software that is driving the displays, so motion compensation is built into that. 

For VIVE Pro 2, we set Steam’s supersampling setting as 150% by default, which makes up for the lens distortion. We found this to be the best value for SteamVR’s automatic performance scaling to scale and still reach 90 or 120 Hz on the majority of PCs we expect to be used to run VIVE Pro 2. However, users can still go into SteamVR to manually adjust their supersampling settings.

If we had set it to 100%, a lot of PCs would struggle under automatic settings.  Render resolution is set by SteamVR and automatically scales to what it thinks is best for your system, VIVE Console handles display resolution.”

Edited June 10, 2021 by Supmua

[Headwarp]

4 hours ago, Supmua said:

More info, straight from HTC. https://babeltechreviews.com/the-rtx-3070-ti-launch-review-featuring-the-vive-pro-2/5/?amp=1
 

“Motion Compensation is the same as Motion Smoothing. The new lens and display requires our own motion compensation, and VIVE Console is the software that is driving the displays, so motion compensation is built into that. 

For VIVE Pro 2, we set Steam’s supersampling setting as 150% by default, which makes up for the lens distortion. We found this to be the best value for SteamVR’s automatic performance scaling to scale and still reach 90 or 120 Hz on the majority of PCs we expect to be used to run VIVE Pro 2. However, users can still go into SteamVR to manually adjust their supersampling settings.

If we had set it to 100%, a lot of PCs would struggle under automatic settings.  Render resolution is set by SteamVR and automatically scales to what it thinks is best for your system, VIVE Console handles display resolution.”

 

 

Yeah that's worded in a way that seems confusing.  Let's quote the part you didn't bold.   "If we had set it to 100%, a lot of PCs would struggle under automatic settings."  which implies, that there is also a manual setting.     When you read the entire paragraph they are clearly talking about a feature that already existed, and has been disabled by most power users for years now. 

 

And also.. I mean.. "A lot of PC's  would struggle @100%".. so we bumped it up to 150%".. what? say again? huh?  Yeah that makes sense. /s  People are struggling at native.. so let's increase the resolution to fix that.  And this is the logic that makes us happy we have a manual option.  

 

Interesting find however thanks to you pointing me to the vr compositor log.   It does seem to be doing some automated calucalations. 

 

Here are some more reasons I don't want it to do so, and therefore disabled the automatic resolution setting in vive console, which didn't provide the result I was looking for.  

 

This is what happened when I enabled the boost lock for my GPU in EVGA Precision, which actually puts me between 1980-2055mhz gpu clock

 

Additional VsyncToPhoton time = 0.000000 seconds.
[2021-06-10 13:04:29.944 -5 0xF3C INFO Initialize] Adapter[0] LUID.hp = 0, LUID.lp = 54771
[2021-06-10 13:04:29.944 -5 0xF3C INFO Initialize] Display Padding: (0, 0)
[2021-06-10 13:04:29.944 -5 0xF3C INFO Initialize] Display Width: 4896, Height: 2448
[2021-06-10 13:04:29.944 -5 0xF3C INFO Initialize] Default Render Width (per eye): 3320, Height: 3320
[2021-06-10 13:04:29.945 -5 0xF3C INFO Initialize] Hidden mesh area per eye: 0.100613
[2021-06-10 13:04:29.945 -5 0xF3C INFO Initialize] Measure GPU speed with 2880 x 1700 render target.
[2021-06-10 13:04:30.181 -5 0xF3C INFO Initialize] GPU speed test result: 1690 MP/s
[2021-06-10 13:04:30.181 -5 0xF3C INFO Initialize] Estimated default throughput: 1784 MP/s
[2021-06-10 13:04:30.181 -5 0xF3C INFO Initialize] Adjusted render Width (per eye): 3218, Height: 3218 [Scale = 0.940000]

 

SteamVR resolutoin at 150% 3104.. um.  apparently 150% is the new 100%.  

 

This what happens at idle gpu clock speeds, which is actually 1350mhz

 

[2021-06-10 13:22:16.019 -5 0xEE0 INFO Initialize] Adapter[0] LUID.hp = 0, LUID.lp = 55475
[2021-06-10 13:22:16.019 -5 0xEE0 INFO Initialize] Display Padding: (0, 0)
[2021-06-10 13:22:16.019 -5 0xEE0 INFO Initialize] Display Width: 4896, Height: 2448
[2021-06-10 13:22:16.019 -5 0xEE0 INFO Initialize] Default Render Width (per eye): 2842, Height: 2842
[2021-06-10 13:22:16.020 -5 0xEE0 INFO Initialize] Hidden mesh area per eye: 0.100613
[2021-06-10 13:22:16.020 -5 0xEE0 INFO Initialize] Measure GPU speed with 2880 x 1700 render target.
[2021-06-10 13:22:16.340 -5 0xEE0 INFO Initialize] GPU speed test result: 1225 MP/s
[2021-06-10 13:22:16.340 -5 0xEE0 INFO Initialize] Estimated default throughput: 1307 MP/s
[2021-06-10 13:22:16.340 -5 0xEE0 INFO Initialize] Adjusted render Width (per eye): 2740, Height: 2740 [Scale = 0.930000]

 

 

 

150%SS in SteamVR is actually much closer to the reported resolutions on the bottom line taken in to scale.   3218 x .94 = 3024ish.. so it's just hair higher at Steams 3104x3104 resolution.  That will still probably be a different number the next time I started up SteamVR however, as it is always a different result.  

 

However.. if this is truthfully as designed,  and not some confusion between the HTC software development team on what this feature should do or a bug where my resolution is different every single time I start up SteamVR?  That's a deal breaker for me.   It makes absolutely zero sense for you to allow me to manually choose a resolution, and then completely ignore the setting I chose.  And then base that on my IDLE gpu clock frequencies which are no where close to where I'll be when a VR title is actually running.    Defeats the whole purpose of disabling automatic settings for performance tweaks.  I have never utilized, neither have I ever wanted software to attempt to handle my performance tweaking for me. Especially in DCSW and other sims where I have put countless hours into determining my sweetspots for VR performance with far better results than automatic scaling has ever offered me. 

 

And I am still inclined to believe that what SteamVR is reporting the resolution at, at least in 120hz modes is just plainly incorrect, as stated in an earlier post that what should've been about 4.4m pixels per eye in the Pro 2 was performing worse than 5.9m pixels per eye in the Odyssey.  

 

 

 

I don't forsee HTC fixing it before my return period is up.  Hope they prove me wrong.    It makes more sense to me still that the automatic display resolution setting in Vive Console is bugged much like the Motion Compensation switch having no effect on or off.   In fact the only consistency the option seems to offer when disabled is the refresh rate chosen. 

 

Edited June 10, 2021 by Headwarp

[A2597]

Got my headset! Quickly set up and looked at SteamVR Home, didn't have time on lunch break to play a game / fly.

 

Quick notes thus far, it's wider than my face, so light leakage from side needs to be addressed. Will have to add a little padding there (Or turn off the lights in my VR space, which is an option actually, no windows.

 

The screen is amazing, I can read text! Sound from inside SteamVR Home was good, may like it better than my CV1, but will need to play some DCS or Beatsaber to know for sure.

[javelina1]

2 minutes ago, A2597 said:

Got my headset! Quickly set up and looked at SteamVR Home, didn't have time on lunch break to play a game / fly.

 

Quick notes thus far, it's wider than my face, so light leakage from side needs to be addressed. Will have to add a little padding there (Or turn off the lights in my VR space, which is an option actually, no windows.

 

The screen is amazing, I can read text! Sound from inside SteamVR Home was good, may like it better than my CV1, but will need to play some DCS or Beatsaber to know for sure.

going from a CV1 to a VP2???  Hubba, hubba!!! 

[A2597]

Yeah, massive upgrade.

The Rift S was a sidegrade, and I missed the external tracking, so never bought one. (Dad has is, and I've used it a couple times)

Never wore another headset, soooo nothing to compare too! My wife even noticed the quality difference immediately, and she's barely used VR in over a year.

 

Edit: Just noticed the headset is warm while in standby mode. Seems something is not going to sleep properly, so I've turned off the connect box when not in use.

Edited June 10, 2021 by A2597

[eaglecash867]

1 hour ago, A2597 said:

The screen is amazing, I can read text! Sound from inside SteamVR Home was good, may like it better than my CV1, but will need to play some DCS or Beatsaber to know for sure.

Just make sure to check your DCS PD setting.  With your CV1, you probably had it set for a number well above 1.0.  You'll be able to set that at 1.0 with the VP2 and get performance as good as, or better than, you had with your CV1.

[A2597]

Yeah, I just had to do a quick "flyby" in DCS...At first terrible framerate, then realized exactly that.

Dropped it to 1.0, and pretty much same framerate as before I think. (No testing, just by feel).

 

Quick notes: I can actually read everything in the cockpit without zoom. I wouldn't say it's 100% crystal clear, but some of that may be how I have the headset positioned and getting IPD right and all that stuff, will take a bit more than 5 minutes to fully dial everything in. (Actually, some of it may also be with edge to edge clarity, I'm so used to moving my head to read and now that it's clear I think I can just move my eyes...)

The wider FOV is very nice. It's somewhere between "I don't even notice it" and "Wow, look at everything I'm not used to seeing!" Sense of speed is certainly better.

Audio seems fine? Also, on headset volume adjustment!

 

I really want a day to play with this thing now...but so far, I'm happy with the upgrade.

[Headwarp]

I just had a nice little chat with a vive techsupport/customer service agent via their live chat, to which they immediately escalated the issue to a ticket upon hearing my descriptions of the issues and gathering my hardware and OS info.  

 

They didn't even make me jump through the hoops of general troubleshooting guides.  Instead simply asked me what all I've done trying to troubleshoot, asked me for the hardware I'm running and told me to also use the Report function in vive console which I already have..  the rep even commented that it sounded like I was pretty experienced in the matter so that may have prompted her not to beat around the bush. 

 

So.. it will be interesting to see what kind of responses I get to the escalated ticket.    

 

Edited June 10, 2021 by Headwarp

[dburne]

I just don't think my Vive Pro 2 is going to arrive today. It has shown in a town about 20 miles away all day with no movement. Tracking still says delivery by end of the day. 

Mind you this is day 3 of the 2 day Fed Ex delivery I paid for.

 

At this point even if it gets here I am not going to really be able to do anything with it this evening, getting too late.

[Headwarp]

16 minutes ago, dburne said:

I just don't think my Vive Pro 2 is going to arrive today. It has shown in a town about 20 miles away all day with no movement. Tracking still says delivery by end of the day. 

Mind you this is day 3 of the 2 day Fed Ex delivery I paid for.

 

At this point even if it gets here I am not going to really be able to do anything with it this evening, getting too late.

 

IME if it doesn't say "Out for Delivery" when you look up the tracking number then it's not on a truck.  But.. there are exceptions to that.  Being that close you at least know you should have it by tomorrow.  You'll have a busy weekend, sir. 

Edited June 10, 2021 by Headwarp

[Fizzle]

Well, I've been checking the FedEx tracking constantly for days, and it finally arrived. And sadly, I'm disappointed. It's going back.

 

I have a 3090 and a 9900k, so I should have the horsepower to run it well. I'm coming from the Index, and most notably, I did not have a "wow" moment when I first put it on like I did going from CV1 to Index.

 

If I hold the HMD to my face in exactly the right position, it's a bit clearer. But not enough to make me go "wow." And the fit is bad. I saw a video review (I can't remember whose) that complained that the hinge on the headset only goes one way. You can't bend it down. I have a large head, no doubt, but it's the hinge not bending the other way that prevents it from fitting well. I can perch the back of the headset at the top back of my head and crank it down way too tight for comfort, but the headphones barely reach my ears that way and, more significantly, it doesn't stay in place. Just looking left and right in the cockpit it wiggles around. If I move the back below the top of my head, the way it's intended, the mask is tilted up with a full half inch of space between my cheeks and the foam. And getting my eyes in the sweet spot is unattainable.

 

The FOV that people are talking so much about is absolutely fine. Really good, even, as far as I'm concerned. Every bit as good as the Index and arguably better. Colors are also good. Better than the Index. The glare, on the other hand, is bad. Much worse than Index. Looking at the HUD and slowly rotating my head there's a very noticeable halo floating around every green glowing HUD element. Super distracting and more than offsetting the minor clarity gains.

 

The headphones are lousy. Worse than I expected. I care about good sound and anybody with decent headphones is going to call the sound from these things poor. Not even in the ballpark of sound worthy of an $800 headset. Add the constant buzzing, which is worse than people described imo, and I'd call them garbage.

 

I'm deeply disappointed, as I was hoping this would radically improve my experience. It's not close for me. Even if this were $400 I'd be sending it back.

 

Really really hoping there's an Index 2 that's PCVR-focused in our future.

Edited June 10, 2021 by Fizzle

[dburne]

At this point I just hope Fed Ex has not lost the device.

Tracking still says delivery by end of day, however it also shows it has never left another town. Certainly does not say out for delivery.

Perhaps I will get it tomorrow.

 

 

[Habu_69]

Mine was delivered today as scheduled. Shipped from Plainfield, Ind. USA to WV. No issues setting it up and flying in DCS right away. I found headset slightly heavier and warmer under use than G2, but not to an uncomfortable extent. Audio and mic are fine for DCS. I am listening to jet noise and military radio, not Beethoven. Colors are appreciably more saturated and FOV wider than G2. Res/clarity about the same. Sweet spot smaller. I will repeat others: if you are having no issues with a G2, I would not find value in an upgrade.

 

Just regarding DCS VR in general, while the immersion factor in VR is a major level above a monitor, VR has far to go to approximate the visual detail and screen brightness a monitor provides. For example when landing on a carrier, I can't distinguish the approach centerline until almost at the ramp. Visually acquiring a particular factory to bomb in an industrial area is impossible for me: the buildings all blend together. The visual image appears less bright. Perhaps if I am ever able to buy a top graphics card (stuck with a 2070 Super for now) so that I can bump up the DCS graphics settings, these VR shortcomings can be satisfactorily mitigated.

Edited June 11, 2021 by Habu_69

[Supmua]

2 hours ago, Habu_69 said:

Mine was delivered today as scheduled. Shipped from Plainfield, Ind. USA to WV. No issues setting it up and flying in DCS right away. I found headset slightly heavier and warmer under use than G2, but not to an uncomfortable extent. Audio and mic are fine for DCS. I am listening to jet noise and military radio, not Beethoven. Colors are appreciably more saturated and FOV wider than G2. Res/clarity about the same. Sweet spot smaller. I will repeat others: if you are having no issues with a G2, I would not find value in an upgrade.

 

Just regarding DCS VR in general, while the immersion factor in VR is a major level above a monitor, VR has far to go to approximate the visual detail and screen brightness a monitor provides. For example when landing on a carrier, I can't distinguish the approach centerline until almost at the ramp. Visually acquiring a particular factory to bomb in an industrial area is impossible for me: the buildings all blend together. The visual image appears less bright. Perhaps if I am ever able to buy a top graphics card (stuck with a 2070 Super for now) so that I can bump up the DCS graphics settings, these VR shortcomings can be satisfactorily mitigated.

 

 

Yeah you need top end GPU for this.  HTC said 150% of panel res is recommended to get optimal image with full correction for distortion/motion artifacts/etc., and that's 7344x3672 pixels that needs to be rendered--no setup can push that many pixels in DCS with good frame rate (almost 7.5K).  This is a bit higher than typical SteamVR headsets which usually require 140% for distortion correction.  When you set it at that res tho, it's quite sharp (tried in other games)...and like any VR headset when you upsample it gets even sharper but everything becomes a slideshow.  Using Reshade VR does help with ground sharpness quite a bit.

 

The screen brightness is automated right now, waiting for them to give us manual control.  There are a lot of things that could be done to help with user experiences, and I'm sure more updates are coming.  I don't think HTC understands that avg buyers for this headset aren't VR newcomers, those people would rather go for cheaper headsets which sports better price/performance ratio.  This is an enthusiast's headset and at this price point, they ought to give us more control of the device instead of spoonfeeding.  It's kinda like the RTX 3090 or the new 3080Ti, getting trashed everywhere by most reviewers because it doesn't do enough yet pricey.

Edited June 11, 2021 by Supmua