Vive Pro 2

[dburne]

2 minutes ago, Headwarp said:

 

Welp.  I'm going to have to dig around this one because after my latest install of the vive software, opting for vivesetup.exe,  I don't have a vive folder in steamapps.    I did.. before I uninstalled everything vive, as well as SteamVR.  But I opted not to use Vive Console for SteamVR this time and attmpted installing everything using the default directories. 

 

More digging yay.  

 

Thanks dburne for digging that up for me!

 

 

 

 

You are most welcome, hope it helps. Let us know how you make out with it.

Fwiw - I only have Vive Console installed on my system.

Edited June 18, 2021 by dburne

[Headwarp]

10 minutes ago, dburne said:

u are most welcome, hope it helps. Let us know how you make out with it.

Fwiw - I only have Vive Console installed on my system.

 

 

Alright.. well I just found that file.  Also seems like it's set to read only lol.  Which.. um.  Might explain some things.   Guess I'm going to unpack the box.  

Edited June 18, 2021 by Headwarp
nevermind found the file

[dburne]

9 minutes ago, Headwarp said:

 

Did you install it via "Vive setup" or did you install "Vive Console for SteamVR" through steamVR?

 

 

I think it was via Vive setup.

[Headwarp]

9 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

I think it was via Vive setup.

 

I overlooked that your reddit link also showed the default location when installing using ViveSetup.     Vive Console for SteamVR is a app you can find through the steam store btw.  You'd know if you did. 

 

That being said It won't let me edit the file because of admin rights or something on my drive lol.  

 

That could explain a lot. 

 

I guess I have to dig this thing out of the box was shipped in and test this now. 

 

 

Or honestly.. if somebody already has "DisplayResolutionAuto" : false,  in their defaultvr.settings file.. mind doing a couple SteamVR restarts and uploading your vrcompositor logs?  It would save me some tape if it doesn't stop the automatic scaling. 

 

I have some doubt doubt.. the last post in the reddit thread dburne linked said it doesn't seem to stop Vive Console from doign the auto thing.  

Edited June 18, 2021 by Headwarp

[dburne]

6 minutes ago, Headwarp said:

 

I overlooked that your reddit link also showed the default location when installing using ViveSetup.     Vive Console for SteamVR is a app you can find through the steam store btw.  You'd know if you did. 

 

That being said It won't let me edit the file because of admin rights or something on my drive lol.  

 

That could explain a lot. 

 

I guess I have to dig this thing out of the box was shipped in and test this now. 

 

 

Copy the file and paste it to your desktop.

Make changes there and save.

Then paste it back in the appropriate folder.

It will then let you accept the permissions.

[Headwarp]

2 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

Copy the file and paste it to your desktop.

Make changes there and save.

Then paste it back in the appropriate folder.

It will then let you accept the permissions.

 

Aight den.  Reckon I'm going to cut the tape.   

[Headwarp]

Yeah those settings don't bseem to be doing anything at all unfortunately. 

 

Interestingly enough.. in C:\Program Files (x86)\VIVE\Updater\App\ViveVRRuntime\ViveVR\ViveVRServer

(or the steamapps equivalent)  there's an executable called ViveVRServer.exe.    When i click it.. it starts vive console and SteamVR.. but not before doing this 

 

 

 

 

 

[Supmua]

I did test this.  "DisplayResolutionAuto" : false and restarted 3 times, and every time my Steam SS 150% is right smack at 3852x3852 (Had up to 4020x4020 when it was in auto).  Frankly, that's still not a whole lot of pixel variation.  If you see a huge variation then you should be concerned more about your setup rather than the headset itself because it is polling your GPU strength for this which means for some reason your overclocking is not consistent or stable.

 

This is the same concept as AI CPU overclocking done by various motherboards, including ASUS.  One of the first things it does is polling the strength of your CPU cooler and assigning a number, which in turns decides how aggressive the mobo will do the OC for you.  Yes, you can get better results doing it manually, but AI OC is mostly as good unless you are picky about benchmark numbers which usually doesn't result in a huge leap when it comes to actual final fps in gaming.

Edited June 18, 2021 by Supmua

[Headwarp]

42 minutes ago, Supmua said:

I did test this.  "DisplayResolutionAuto" : false and restarted 3 times, and every time my Steam SS 150% is right smack at 3852x3852 (Had up to 4020x4020 when it was in auto).  Frankly, that's still not a whole lot of pixel variation.  If you see a huge variation then you should be concerned more about your setup rather than the headset itself because it is polling your GPU strength for this which means for some reason your overclocking is not consistent or stable.

 

 

Might want to re-read a little bit I stated they are showing up more consistent since the latest update after imacken shared his logs with me.   Kind of beating a dead horse with the whole "Your 2080TI is too weak" thing.     I was easily riding 60fps in IL-2 and DCS.    The problem being I'm unable to find out how much I can really squeeze out of the setup because the testing conditions are not consistent.  

I have put my system through far more rigorous testing than anything vive console is throwing at my system with its 2880x1700 render target acheiving 261 fps.  It's stable.  Thanks. 

 

 

It's not a 3090.. but it is a 2080Ti powered by a 11th gen intel @5.1ghz  that has run stable in two different PC builds at the same exact OC settings without issue in for more demanding tests than what Vive Console is putting my GPU through at startup and it has easily handled some pretty high resolutions in VR.. but with a headset that didn't change my resolution ever.  Unless I changed it.  It was fixed.   I was running the odyssey on a 980Ti before I got my 2080Ti.. I couldn't have done that if WMR+SteamVR was changing my settings all the time.  I was barely getting away with native resolution. 

 

Again.. if performance were the issue.. I SHOULD be able to solve that by moving the resolution slider down.     The issue rather, is that Vive Console's invisible resolution slider is doing it for me, without my consent.    And it goes up. It goes down.  It's simply inconsistent.  What we do have is one new component to my system that is behaving in an undesirable manner.     I mean.. if you bring one new animal into your house and notice a bad smell.. is it the houses fault?   Do you rebuild the entire house in the hope that it deals with the stink? 

 

Check your VR compositor logs.. I bet your GPU Speed tests are within about 2-3 units of eachother and your Estimated throughput is pretty much the same everytime for your last 3 restarts.   Feel free to correct me.  Mine are showing up about +/- 20 megapixels per second is what MP/s is I guess.  

 

Still..give me an actual GOOD reason why we can't just run this headset at native resolution and adjust in steamVR as needed?  That's my current quesiton to the HTC support staff anyway.  

 

I would be just freaking dandy, if I could just turn this automatic BS off, sup.  Really.    it's working fine your 3090 with little to no variation.  That's great.   You're part of like 1% of gamers.  

 

Stilll.. disabling "Automatic" in Vive Console isn't actually disabling the automatic resolution scaling.    How that doesn't sound broken to anybody else is beyond me.. but I disagree.   

Thanks for running some tests though.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 18, 2021 by Headwarp

[Supmua]

For your records I never mentioned 2080Ti even once, I didn’t even know you are using a 2080Ti.  I’m actually still using the 2080Ti with my other PC. 
 

And yes there is still no disable option for auto res from within the Vive console. You have do it from within the default.vrsettings file. 

Edited June 18, 2021 by Supmua

[Headwarp]

26 minutes ago, Supmua said:

For your records I never mentioned 2080Ti even once, I didn’t even know you are using a 2080Ti.  I’m actually still using the 2080Ti with my other PC. 
 

And yes there is still no disable option for auto res from within the Vive console. You have do it from within the default.vrsettings file. 

 

 

I just did a whole schpeel about unboxing my ready to be shipped back Pro 2 to disable that setting in default.vrsettings and it had no effect unfortunately.  

 

the CPU and motherboard, and even a new drive or two has changed.  But the rest of my sig is close enough until I feel like updating it. 

 

 

 

It's not the first time you've pointed a finger at something on my end and I have done everything in my power to refute that aside from reinstalling windows which seems ridiculous and way overkill for a less than month old install on a mostly brand new PC that works fine other than some unsatisfactory (IMO) behavior from the Pro 2.   I was getting better performance with my Odyssey than I was my 8700k even.  

 

 

And while it seems to be less variation at the moment.. I'm quite curious what happens if you plug the Pro 2 in to your pc with a 2080Ti in it?   I think it'd be a more interesting conversation than several we've had about automatic gpu scaling, what it does, what it measures, etc etc and GPU strength.   Though I do very much appreciate you for pointing out where to find the log files and everything like that it really did put some things in to perspective.  

 

VR Compositor logs from both of your machines with the vive pro 2 would be an interesting read for me honestly.. might even point me to something to send to HTC

 

By no means do I expect you to take the time to do that.   But really there's only one solution I'm looking for in this regard... and that's a consistent display resolution setting.. and while I wish I had one?  The answer shouldn't be "Buy a 3090" ya know?  I could make this thing work for me, at least resolution wise, if not for some weird design choices.   

 

That being said- the variation IS less it seems in 2.0.17.4. But still my most recent tests on ultra @ 150% ss I was jumping between 2838 and 3008.    Others within 100 pixels.  That's cool and all.   But.. I can't think of a good explanation why we can't turn it off other than developer neglect.   Or someone thought they had good idea, but didn't? 

Edited June 18, 2021 by Headwarp

[dburne]

16 minutes ago, Headwarp said:

 

I just did a whole schpeel about unboxing my ready to be shipped back Pro 2 to disable that setting in default.vrsettings and it had no effect unfortunately.  

 

the CPU and motherboard, and even a new drive or two has changed.  But the rest of my sig is close enough until I feel like updating it. 

 

 

 

It's not the first time you've pointed a finger at something on my end and I have done everything in my power to refute that aside from reinstalling windows which seems ridiculous and way overkill for a less than month old install on a mostly brand new PC that works fine other than some unsatisfactory (IMO) behavior from the Pro 2.   I was getting better performance with my Odyssey than I was my 8700k even.  

 

 

And while it seems to be less variation at the moment.. I'm quite curious what happens if you plug the Pro 2 in to your pc with a 2080Ti in it?   I think it'd be a more interesting conversation than several we've had about automatic gpu scaling, what it does, what it measures, etc etc and GPU strength.   Though I do very much appreciate you for pointing out where to find the log files and everything like that it really did put some things in to perspective.  

 

VR Compositor logs from both of your machines with the vive pro 2 would be an interesting read for me honestly.. might even point me to something to send to HTC

 

By no means do I expect you to take the time to do that.   But really there's only one solution I'm looking for in this regard... and that's a consistent display resolution setting.. and while I wish I had one?  The answer shouldn't be "Buy a 3090" ya know?  I could make this thing work for me, at least resolution wise, if not for some weird design choices.   

 

That being said- the variation IS less it seems in 2.0.17.4. But still my most recent tests on ultra @ 150% ss I was jumping between 2838 and 3008.    Others within 100 pixels.  That's cool and all.   But.. I can't think of a good explanation why we can't turn it off other than developer neglect.   Or someone thought they had good idea, but didn't? 

 

 

Hopefully HTC will continue to improve their software.

They are pretty active over on their forums, I would recommend also posting on this issue over there.

The more that do the more attention it might get.

 

Mine will fluctuate just a little bit from time to time, but that part really does not bother me much as it is so little.

I am very pleased with the results I have in the display itself.

 

[Supmua]

I will check the SteamVR SS again this evening to see if my pixel rendering number is still consistent after reboot, etc.  As I said before the numbers were the same for me after closing and restarting Vive console/SteamVR 3 times in a row. 
 

Yes, HTC should’ve given us more control in the console but they currently don’t and there isn’t much you can do until they decide to change that attitude. Fortunately, editing that config file is just like editing a typical DCS lua file which is really no big deal. I have that on a tab in Notepad++ which directly links to the file every time I open it. 

[Headwarp]

23 minutes ago, Supmua said:

I will check the SteamVR SS again this evening to see if my pixel rendering number is still consistent after reboot, etc.  As I said before the numbers were the same for me after closing and restarting Vive console/SteamVR 3 times in a row. 
 

Yes, HTC should’ve given us more control in the console but they currently don’t and there isn’t much you can do until they decide to change that attitude. Fortunately, editing that config file is just like editing a typical DCS lua file which is really no big deal. I have that on a tab in Notepad++ which directly links to the file every time I open it. 

Editing that config file seems to have no effect.     But the GPU testing thing does seem to be a bit more consistent than it was in previous versions.    I do find it interesting that you and imacken both got a consistent  resolution several times in a row but, but at least in imacken's case it appeared as if the gpu testing was still happening when I read through his logs. 

 

Now, if your vrcompositor logs were to also show an adjusted resolution equaling 3750x3750 like Imacken's were when he switched to Ultra from Auto..  could point to a bug with 20 series cards?   My guess would be it's still doing the thing though, just more consistently, at least with a 3090.   

 

So they are working on the software, HTC support didn't bother to get back to me until after the update which makes me think they were trying to work with me and that update did close the gap between resolution changes on my end, but at this point I've asked them to explain to me why I can't simply disable any and all automatic resolution settings  and I may delay another day to see what they say.   

 

For the general record, not just to sup..  I'm absolutely fine with having to lower my resolution a bit if/when needed.   In fact I counted on having to make adjustments depending on different games.  

Hope y'all realize I do hope they fix this.. the Reverb G2 is not an option for me and I'm staying away from Pimax.    The index might not even work out for me frankly due to size and ipd limitations.   

 

Thanks again everybody for all your help.   I might revisit the Pro 2 one day if the software ever makes more sense to me. 

Edited June 18, 2021 by Headwarp

[imacken]

Resolution would also be a problem for you with the Index. 
That’s what made me stick with the G1 when I owned them both at the same time. 

[Headwarp]

23 minutes ago, imacken said:

Resolution would also be a problem for you with the Index. 
That’s what made me stick with the G1 when I owned them both at the same time. 

 

The panels have almost exactly the same native resolution as my Odyssey.. it's about the lighthouse tracking and honestly the games I'd make use of that in looked fine as is at that resolution.    The higher resolution headset really only mattered to me for simming.  

 

I understand what I bought.  Thanks though. 

Edited June 18, 2021 by Headwarp

[Baldrick33]

23 minutes ago, Headwarp said:

 

The panels have almost exactly the same native resolution as my Odyssey.. it's about the lighthouse tracking and honestly the games I'd make use of that in looked fine as is at that resolution.    The higher resolution headset really only mattered to me for simming. 

 

If the only thing bothering you with the Vive pro 2 is the fluctuating resolution then I would think you could comfortably set it to a value that is both safe for performance (i.e. the high figure never goes above x) and a better image than an Index (when the figure drops to y). Now I liked the Index but the resolution is unfortunately at a previous generation from the Reverb & Vive Pro 2.

 

Unless there are other things you think the Index would be better for?

[imacken]

34 minutes ago, Headwarp said:

I understand what I bought.  Thanks though. 

 

Sorry, I didn’t appreciate you’d already bought an Index. 

[Headwarp]

8 minutes ago, Baldrick33 said:

If the only thing bothering you with the Vive pro 2 is the fluctuating resolution then I would think you could comfortably set it to a value that is both safe for performance (i.e. the high figure never goes above x) and a better image than an Index (when the figure drops to y). Now I liked the Index but the resolution is unfortunately at a previous generation from the Reverb & Vive Pro 2.

 

Unless there are other things you think the Index would be better for?

 

What it boils down to really for me.. is I'm not going to support the design choice of automated resolution settings, the inability to uncap framerates etc etc.   HTC wants me to buy an $800 headset, it needs to allow for control of basic features like setting my resolution. 

 

Anyway.. I've reboxed the Pro 2.  I'm done here fellas y'all enjoy.  i might check back in a few months and see if anybody's saying anything differently. 

[imacken]

Well, I’m saying differently. I am not seeing this varying res issue that you talk about. 

[Headwarp]

15 minutes ago, imacken said:

Well, I’m saying differently. I am not seeing this varying res issue that you talk about. 

 

Your resolutions were consistent.. your logs showed the automated stuff still happening.. when you hit the same resolution over and over your GPU test speed was within like 3 megapixels per second.    Again.. it shouldn't taking buying an impossible to find 3090 to get a consistent resolution..  

 

say what you want to say.. but I mean.. i covered what I saw in your logs with a bit of detail honestly.     

 

Glad you're enjoying your headset.  I'm sending the "Vive Noob" back to B&H.  

Edited June 18, 2021 by Headwarp

[imacken]

All I can say is I get consistent resolution with every choice on the SteamVR SS slider, so I don’t have the issue. 

[Headwarp]

12 minutes ago, imacken said:

All I can say is I get consistent resolution with every choice on the SteamVR SS slider, so I don’t have the issue. 

 

Yet your logs still display your GPU being tested, and your rendered resolution being set for you based on that number.   It happens to result in a consistent resolution with your GPU.  Again.. quite a small percentage of people rocking a 3090 out there.  The rest are on Ebay for like $3500  or in a prebuilt PC running like 5 grand.   No thanks. 

 

Like I say.. glad it's working for you.. hope it doesn't break in the future, being one more software layer capable of doing so.     My experience with a different GPU is different than yours and I want the automatic BS to be turned off, which seems impossible.    It's still on for you.  It's still doing the calculations afaict.    Different strokes for different folks and I'm choosing to go back to headsets that give me control over basic features. 

 

Nuff said from me.  Y'all enjoy yourselves. 

 

Edited June 18, 2021 by Headwarp

[imacken]

I don’t actually care what it is doing as long as I have consistent resolution. In fact, I don’t even care if it did vary a bit. What does it matter?

[Headwarp]

9 minutes ago, imacken said:

I don’t actually care what it is doing as long as I have consistent resolution. In fact, I don’t even care if it did vary a bit. What does it matter?

 

That's fine.. why are we still talking about this? You like the Pro 2.    I think it wasn't very well thought out.  Again. NUFF SAID.   But I mean.. at the same time I'm not going to have my experience minimalized because someone else doesn't share the same ideology on how hardware and software should behave.  I don't like the automated features.   You're cool with it.  I think we've made that clear.   I'm heading off now, you guys enjoy your headsets.  

 

I mean.. my request is hey HTC can you let us disable this automated feature?   That would be great.    If you're arguing against that option.. i'm just going to shake my head and leave.  I've spoken with my wallet thanks.  

Edited June 18, 2021 by Headwarp