„watch track“ shows totally made up content

[Hiob]

Hi,

 

I‘ve experienced this now over and over…

first I thought, I did something wrong and went on, since it wasn‘t very important, but now I need those track reviews for improving my landing skills…

Here‘s the problem (an example)

 

I flew a dogfight training mission in nevada (F-14 (me) against F-16, it‘s one of the instant action missions).

In the first round I blacked out and crashed, I quit and in the debrief window clicked fly again.

In the second attempt I managed to shoot the hostile down with my very last bullets (I suck at aiming) head back to nellis on fumes and landed safely and the engines quit while taxiing from the runway. Two very distinguishable events.

After the second mission I wanted to rewatch my landing, so I clicked „watch track“.

Problem is the events that were shown then never happend. In the replay I could watch A dogfight with a F-16. The flight itself could have verymuch happened that way, except I was shooting at totally random times with the bogey nowhere near my noseline and it endet with me being shot down and ejecting. Which never happened in those instances.

 

I know I am supposed to add trackfiles and so on, I will do next time - but for now I‘m interested if anybody else has experienced such?

[razo+r]

Tracks are broken. An ancient issue of DCS World. 

[jackdaw]

Always thought it amusing that they ask for a track file when reporting a bug that may or not show up.

[Hiob]

16 minutes ago, razo+r said:

Tracks are broken. An ancient issue of DCS World. 

Any workaround?

Because I‘m sure that I had working trackfiles once….

[Art-J]

No workaround. Their reliability changes back and forth from game version to version and from aircraft to aircraft. Sometimes it changes even from one gaming session to another, on the same DCS version and the same computer. You might have some good playbacks for a couple of months, then bad ones later, then good ones again, rinse and repeat.

 

Just don't expect them to work and be pleasantly surprised whenever they do.

Edited May 23, 2021 by Art-J

[razo+r]

As said, no workaround. However, there are methods to reduce the desync to some extend. 

 

Cycling your controllers in every directrion can get rid of not properly synced axis. 

 

Limiting the AI to the bare minimum reduces workload as well as possibility of the AI doing different things in the track. 

 

And also hope that DCS is having a good day for maximum accuracy... 

[cfrag]

This may not help much, but I'm using a third-party tool called "Tacview" to analyse my tracks. I don't know if it is prone to the same issues you are experiencing, but I hane not (yet) run into such issues. tacview should offer a free trial (at least it did when I got it), but it is a paid-for application, so caveat emptor. I have no affiliation with Tacview's creators other than that I use their software.

[Hiob]

Thank you,

I‘m familiar with tacview, but I dont think it‘ll fit my needs.

The trackfile playback issue described above seems to fit my experiences.

Shame that there is no solution but gambling…..

[Eugel]

Yeah, I posted about it a while back: 

It got way worse for me with 2.7.

Since 2.7 I haven´t had a single replay that wasn´t totally derailed from what actually happened during the mission after 10 minutes.

And yes, I also wondered why after every encountered bug they ask for a track file.

 

It´s quite annoying for me. As I play in VR, I like to re-watch my missions with higher graphics settings to take screenshots and also would like to use it for learning purposes (check my landing approach, bomb release, what shot me down ? etc.)

[Ironhand]

On 5/23/2021 at 6:14 AM, Hiob said:

...and it endet with me...ejecting.

 

Nothing to add except this part jumped out at me. Everything else coincides with how tracks recreate the mission. This however means that it recorded a key press you never made. I’ve never seen that before.

[Northstar98]

On 5/23/2021 at 11:39 AM, jackdaw said:

Always thought it amusing that they ask for a track file when reporting a bug that may or not show up.

 

It's also useful for finding exactly what the user did (where they don't deviate much, if at all AFAIK), and for seeing what mission it was in and how it was set up, which very often can reveal the problem.

 

For AI issues it's more difficult, especially for longer tracks.

 

But tracks are still useful for reproduction, just in some cases not all by themselves. It would still be beneficial to provide a track in addition to things like videos, tacview, descriptions etc.

Edited May 26, 2021 by Northstar98

[Hiob]

48 minutes ago, Ironhand said:

 

Nothing to add except this part jumped out at me. Everything else coincides with how tracks recreate the mission. This however means that it recorded a key press you never made. I’ve never seen that before.

There is the „out-of-sync“ issue with the gun, but other than this I always had more of the impression, that the replay mixes up with older instances.

Like there is some kind of cashing that isn‘t cleared and then becomes part of the replay.

If I remember correctly, I had instances where the replay track had nothing to do with the mission I flew whatsoever.

 

BUT I never did controlled troubleshooting or dedicated experiments on this - so please take it with a grain of salt. Now, that I‘m aware of the underlaying issue I will have a more focused eye on that.

 

 

Can you tell me, where the temp-files for the track recording a saved?

Edited May 24, 2021 by Hiob

[Ironhand]

1 minute ago, Hiob said:

 

...Can you tell me, where the temp-files for the track recording a saved?

 

Here: C:\Users\(User Name)\AppData\Local\Temp\DCS...

 

However, the old BIN and TRK files are cleared at the start of each mission.

[Hiob]

Thanks!

 

Am I supposed to save a track file before watching the replay?

Does it make any difference?

Edited May 24, 2021 by Hiob

[Lace]

1 hour ago, Ironhand said:

 

Nothing to add except this part jumped out at me. Everything else coincides with how tracks recreate the mission. This however means that it recorded a key press you never made. I’ve never seen that before.

 

Does the F-14 have linked seats - i.e. could the AI RIO eject both crew after being hit, even though this never occurred in the original flight and no human instigated the ejection?

[Hiob]

Ok, made a test now.

First time I booted my rig today. Deleted the complete temp folder. First start of DCS.

Instant Action Fox-2 engagement against a MiG-28 (). The following did occur: merge in a one circle, I flared and wasted my Fox-2s because I was to near. A little bit of rate fighting, I gun him, he limps away…(which was ridiculous on its own - because he was going 112 knots. I flew circles around him until he went down and then proceeded to land. End of Mission. All im all about 5-10 min. Quit. Save Track.
 

Replay: Merge, one circle, I flared he shot a Fox-2, I get hit, dead. End. Took about 30 sec….

 

Anybody wants to have the trackfile? 

 

 

Out of curiosity: What is the stall speed of a F-5/MiG-28?

Edited May 24, 2021 by Hiob

[26-J39]

Tracks have always never been 100% reliable.   AFAIK track files basically copy all the flight & environment parameters as well as your inputs and recreates it in DCS World.

I can imagine there might be some input errors over time especially if your throwing the stick and throttle around a lot and these are largely the sort of track errors i see.

 

What you describe is something different though, like the AI has made different decisions in the track?   weird

 

Edit:  Haven't flown F-5 or Mig28 in ages but stall speed will depend on weight and conditions?    Approach speed is about 140kts in F-5 and 259KPH in Mig-28

Edited May 24, 2021 by 26-J39
Addition

[Hiob]

Yes, and since the replay was like 30 seconds, there weren’t so many control inputs whatsoever…

Not to mention a F-5 getting of a Fox-2 against a Tomcat in the first one-circle -

I mean, I am by no means a top tier pilot, but come on….

Edited May 24, 2021 by Hiob

[Hiob]

38 minutes ago, 26-J39 said:

 Approach speed is about 140kts in F-5 and 259KPH in Mig-28

 

…he wasn‘t approaching anything but his unevitable doom - but did this with grace…

…and an unholy amount of AOA 

[26-J39]

Out of curiosity, can you get a Tacview from a track file?    Sorry might be dumb question, been a while since i used Tacview.

 

Getting a Tacview of the actual fight vs a Tacview of the replay would be interesting ?

[Hiob]

I don‘t know. Presumably yes.

[Ironhand]

54 minutes ago, 26-J39 said:

Out of curiosity, can you get a Tacview from a track file?    Sorry might be dumb question, been a while since i used Tacview.

 

Getting a Tacview of the actual fight vs a Tacview of the replay would be interesting ?

Tacview basically records the mission flown. It doesn't draw data directly from the TRK file. You have to run the track and Tacview will show what happens in the replay. If the replay is off target, Tacview will be as well.

[26-J39]

19 minutes ago, Ironhand said:

Tacview basically records the mission flown. It doesn't draw data directly from the TRK file. You have to run the track and Tacview will show what happens in the replay. If the replay is off target, Tacview will be as well.

Yes that's right, thanks for reminding me.    Was just a thought if Tacview could play ED Trk files as well it would be a good way to narrow down the issues with ED's track files.

[jwflowersii]

From what I can tell, the replay system is tied to every frame drawn.  It stores input based on frames per second, so if you have even the slightest stutter in frames, it'll miss an input and this is why replays are not accurate of players.  Server replay is accurate 100% of the time however.

[Fri13]

1 minute ago, jwflowersii said:

From what I can tell, the replay system is tied to every frame drawn.  It stores input based on frames per second, so if you have even the slightest stutter in frames, it'll miss an input and this is why replays are not accurate of players.  Server replay is accurate 100% of the time however.

 

There should be some kind difference between frames and input, as otherwise you could never have any replay track work ever as different frame rate would give different result. Example 90 FPS machine repeats track from 82 fps machine would lead problem.

 

It is more likely that input system has own capture times per second and if FPS sinks, then that can't either keep up properly.