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Orion HDG and CRS knobs


stukemp
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Hello all!

 

I have recently took delivery of the Orion throttle and I basically downloaded and used the winwing binds with a couple of alterations. Now question is as per title, why can i not manipulate the F-18 HDG or CRS bugs via the rotating knobs on the throttle?

 

I see that there is no axis type configurations to these in the settings but is there a way around it?

 

Thanks!

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It's not an axis, but a rotary encoder presumably, so for each click it makes, it transmits a single signal which can be mapped to a key press (different for left and right turn, naturally). 

i386DX40@42 MHz w/i387 CP, 4 MB RAM (8*512 kB), Trident 8900C 1 MB w/16-bit RAMDAC ISA, Quantum 340 MB UDMA33, SB 16, DOS 6.22 w/QEMM + Win3.11CE, Quickshot 1btn 2axis, Numpad as hat. 2 FPH on a good day, 1 FPH avg.

 

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Hmm, I see. I presume you're mapping it in DCS directly? One solution would be to use a middle man software (e.g. WinWing, Gremlin, etc.) which allows you to set more precisely press and release timings (e.g. for each click on the encoder, press this key combination for that long) which you could then experiment with until the switch on the bottom of the UFC is held long enough to move the CRS or HDG values by a single degree.

i386DX40@42 MHz w/i387 CP, 4 MB RAM (8*512 kB), Trident 8900C 1 MB w/16-bit RAMDAC ISA, Quantum 340 MB UDMA33, SB 16, DOS 6.22 w/QEMM + Win3.11CE, Quickshot 1btn 2axis, Numpad as hat. 2 FPH on a good day, 1 FPH avg.

 

DISCLAIMER: My posts are still absolutely useless. Just finding excuses not to learn the F-14 (HB's Swansong?).

 

Annoyed by my posts? Please consider donating. Once the target sum is reached, I'll be off to somewhere nice I promise not to post from. I'd buy that for a dollar!

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  • 1 year later...

Did you get anywhere with this?

I have the same problem and SimAppPro's acceleration and interval settings do not help AFAICS. 

A 10 ms interval appears to be too short for DCS to register all the ticks, which means that you don't get a strong response - you're twisting the dial and not getting much movement even though input lag is minimal. Moving to 20-50 ms helps more ticks register, but introduces more input lag such that a large twist of the encoder can take seconds to resolve in DCS. Even if every tick registers, for things like HDG and CRS, one 'tick' or 'click' of the encoder should at most correspond to 1 degree for adequate control. Even if every tick registered, at the minimum 10 ms interval that's a theoretical best case of 3.6 seconds of twisting to do a full revolution of HDG or CRS angle. Real-life performance is worse as 1 tick appears to correspond to less than 1 degree and a good percentage of ticks are not registered.  I can't say I've noticed much difference when changing the acceleration between 1 and 5.

I'm starting to wonder about virtual mapping, macros and other possibilities. As far as I'm aware, there is a possibility of conflict between SimAppPro and Joystick Gremlin in certain cases so I'm not sure about that as a solution yet. The response of the encoders in DCS is surprisingly poor IMO - not sure where the blame lies though.  I've opened a support ticket with Winwing and will report back.


Edited by Monkeydonut
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Orion is not a Hornet throttle. They work much better (though still not super-well) on aircraft with actual knobs for those. I mostly use them for things like radio preset selectors or other kinds of knobs instead, particularly since they missed a big opportunity to make the wing fold knob a 4-pos selector (would've been a lot more useful that way). In fact, when you have a channel repeater up front, the having the channel selector down there is awesome for campaigns that use realistic comms.

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It really isn't. Taurus was a Hornet throttle, and Orion drew on that, sharing its grip and many features. But it's not, by design, an F-18 throttle. Notice Master Arm is a 3-pos switch, the sliders don't correspond to anything in the Hornet, and the parking brake is more Viper than Hornet. It was meant to be universal from the start. Layout is also nothing like the Hornet, unlike Taurus.

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I was talking about the grip. The switches on the base seem to be a compromise. The wing fold is obviously a Hornet. They knew they were making an F-16 version and put the AP on it. It would appear an A-10 version might come too.

What makes them the intended throttle is the grip. We have a Hornet and Viper so far. The base will never be specialized to one plane but a compromise.

  • Thanks 1

Buzz

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I agree the Taurus is more specific to the Hornet but it's too expensive for my budget. Especially, after I just bought a new gaming system and monitor. Orion2 is all I can afford now. As long as the grip is right. I can deal with a compromise base.

Buzz

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i wanted to see if I could replicate the issue and maybe solve it in a short amount of time. Needless to say I fell in to the same trap. However I had already had these rotaries mapped to formation and position lights.  Since I use non of win wings labelings I put  switches and buttons where I felt it made since to me.

In the end I ended up using the pitch alt hold 3 way switch and the  Rol hdg sel. I felt those were more akin to things on the f16 than the f18. They actually make great heading and course switches.

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Winwing support weren't helpful.  Apparently the hardware supports USB update intervals of 1 ms, but most games including DCS won't do better than 10 ms.  I couldn't really get much sense out of them with respect to potential workarounds re: virtual mapping or macros - I'm not 100% sure it can't be done, but nothing they said helped.  They did see that they would try to improve rotary encoder behaviour / options in the future.

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21 hours ago, Monkeydonut said:

Winwing support weren't helpful.  Apparently the hardware supports USB update intervals of 1 ms, but most games including DCS won't do better than 10 ms.  I couldn't really get much sense out of them with respect to potential workarounds re: virtual mapping or macros - I'm not 100% sure it can't be done, but nothing they said helped.  They did see that they would try to improve rotary encoder behaviour / options in the future.

In the name of curiosity I found a way to best replicate the course and heading knobs and it works in game.

Goal

  • One turn left or right “holds” the switch in the F18 for course/heading.
  • One turn left or right and back to center to mimic a click once for small course/heading change.

I did so by reading the USB data of the throttle base in a stand-alone python script, then send a UDP packet to DCS to set the switch for crs/hdg to a given state. Main take away is that by creating a wrapper around the Throttle, extra customization can be gained.
 

Cons, requires extra work to adapt to different aircraft or switches. And it’s not a great long term solution.

Pros, cool seeing something work and it was my first time doing something like this. Also shows there does exist a way to fed the desired effect, or the ability to override how Winwing handles certain USB events


Video link showing in action

 

 

 

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That was very cool. I'm not an F18 driver but at least now I know how the HDG and CRS switches work and why 3-way switches get talked about so much in these threads 😉

Honestly from what I can see you're not far off a working solution for the F16 HDG/CRS knobs.  Surely if you have a wrapper reading the USB data you can accumulate clicks from the throttle base, and then send a UDP packet at the set interval with the requisite number of signals for e.g., 5 presses of 'HDG CCW'.


Edited by Monkeydonut
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