Jump to content

Leap Support!!!


Recommended Posts

I just received an answer from leap motion support:

Please follow these steps to update this:

1. Copy the new leapc.dll from the following location (or the location where you have installed the Ultraleap hand tracking software):

C:\Program Files\Ultraleap\VRVisualizer\VRVisualizer_Data\Plugins\LeapC.dll

2. Browse to the DCS World folder containing the LeapC.dll:

C:\Steam\steamapps\common\DCSWorld\bin

3. Replace the LeapC.dll with the new file.

4. Restart DCS World and test! 

And it works well and much better than before particularly to manage the pointers and about FOV

Could be of some help to DCS users....

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Leap motion with Gemini 5.2.0 (don't forget upgrading leapC.dll in DCS bin folder by the new one) works really nicely now !!!! tested with F18 and A10 !!!! started from C&D in few minutes much better than with mouse and much more immersive. I suppressed the pointer option that interfere with clicks and used a lot the cockpit camera to move my position where I can push my hands outside obscuration or hits by real objects of my environment like HOTAS, keyboard etc.... Dont hesitate also to move your head laterally to suppress the parallax effect or turn your hand upside down to switch button, can help a max.

Not a single problem with frontal use. Only difficulties (some) is with turning lateral knobs like INS on F18 or TACAN on A10 but with some exercices you will be eased at.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hm…

I have installed the latest Gemini.
The Visualizer shows my hands.
In Dcs I activate leap motion in the special tab, but unfortunately my hands are not shown.
With the previous leap software it still worked.

Before I installed version 5, I uninstalled the old version.

What am I doing wrong?

Edit: ok after I replaced LeapC.dll it works now.

But when I disable "Hands move the stick/throttle" in the special tab, the hands are no longer displayed


Edited by flusim3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't have this problem, I never used virtual hands on stick and throttle but when disabling this I suggest disabling and enabling also several times the leap then ok then back to check. Sometimes it helps a lot particularly to manage the pointers options.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Glad to see this technology coming along.

@BIGNEWY, are the team looking to make further improvements with integrating ultraleap into DCS? Would it be possible to to make the hands/fingers just a little smaller? I altered the VR IPD in the game and it makes the pits bigger, but also the hands/fingers 😞

Thanks!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • ED Team
3 hours ago, flusim3 said:

Hm…

I have installed the latest Gemini.
The Visualizer shows my hands.
In Dcs I activate leap motion in the special tab, but unfortunately my hands are not shown.
With the previous leap software it still worked.

Before I installed version 5, I uninstalled the old version.

What am I doing wrong?

Edit: ok after I replaced LeapC.dll it works now.

But when I disable "Hands move the stick/throttle" in the special tab, the hands are no longer displayed

 

I have mentioned this to the team. I am still on the older driver currently.

46 minutes ago, ppokit said:

Glad to see this technology coming along.

@BIGNEWY, are the team looking to make further improvements with integrating ultraleap into DCS? Would it be possible to to make the hands/fingers just a little smaller? I altered the VR IPD in the game and it makes the pits bigger, but also the hands/fingers 😞

Thanks!

I will pass it on to the team, we are looking into the different possibilities. We are in contact with leap so hopefully some more changes to come. 

thanks

  • Like 7
  • Thanks 1

smallCATPILOT.PNG.04bbece1b27ff1b2c193b174ec410fc0.PNG

Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status

Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, HP Reverb G2

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is anyone able to explain index bending vs thumb pressure for input? I’m guessing one is curling your index finger in to mimic a mouse click while thumb pressure is moving your thumb in against your finger, but I can never get a consistent click either way. 

"It takes a big man to admit he is wrong...I'm not a big man" Chevy Chase, Fletch Lives

 

5800X3D - 64gb ram - RTX3080 - Windows 11

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, cordite said:

So it’s possible to exclude the virtual HOTAS from being selected?

Yeah I'm curious how this actually works with the gloves or hand trackers in general. 

With point control its a total non issue since you have to push a physical button to do anything.

New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1)

Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, cordite said:

So it’s possible to exclude the virtual HOTAS from being selected?

At least with VR controllers there's is the option to disable the controllers to interact with the virtual throttle and stick (within the VR special menu when "use controllers" option is enables)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, flusim3 said:

Hm…

I have installed the latest Gemini.
The Visualizer shows my hands.
In Dcs I activate leap motion in the special tab, but unfortunately my hands are not shown.
With the previous leap software it still worked.

Before I installed version 5, I uninstalled the old version.

What am I doing wrong?

Edit: ok after I replaced LeapC.dll it works now.

But when I disable "Hands move the stick/throttle" in the special tab, the hands are no longer displayed

 

 

Just a longshot:

If the LeapC.dll file is the thing that is incompatible with DCS, should it be worth to try if installing the 5.2 version of the Leap software and only replacing the LeapC.dll file with the 5.0 version works in the Visualizer and in DCS?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Showing the hands now works.
However, there are still problems with the recognition of the hand position and when executing the setting in the special menu.

It does not apply the settings on a Dcs restart for me and I have to confirm the settings again.

It is getting better, but there is still a lot to do.

Dear ED team - stay tuned! Leap motion is a cool thing!

Sorry for my bad english

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great that this is being worked on! And simply AWESOME that you added options to NOT interact with stick and throttle!

I applied the LeapC.dll fix.

It's still not usable though.

1. When de-selecting "Hands use cockpit stick" the hands don't show anymore.

2. The left hand becomes invisible for far too long after removing it from the throttle. Better not make it invisible at all, just don't let it interact with the throttle when the option is selected.

3. I can't interact with anything with my left hand.

4. Interactions are still clunky, just let me bump switches, twist rotaries with my finger and thumb in a pinch-grip, like you would in real life etc.

5. "Use Pointer"-settings are not respected, I'm getting pointers even if I selected "no pointers"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

HelIo @BIGNEWY, I think it could be a nice feature to activate / deactivate interactions and hands visibility by a simple movement like palm facing helmet as I've done before in DCLeap.

It's very intuitive and we rarely have palm facing our faces with all fingers extended, so there's no unintended activation/deactivation.

 

  • Like 2

Corei7 2600K 4.4Ghz OC - NVIDIA GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb - 16 Gb DDR3

HP Reverb PRO HMD - Thrusmaster TWCS + TopGun Stick

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Everything was perfect unfortunately since the last DCS update 2.7.7.15308 no more hands visible whatsoever being the ticks on the special area….

Even with the right Gemini 5.2 leapC.dll in the DCSworldopenbeta bin folder……started a new relation with leap motion support but as the visualizer works perfectly I consider this is a DCS bug …I didn’t checked by returning to Gemini 5.0 .

could you confirm ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have been holding out on this until the conflict between real controls and leap selection is resolved. Thinking laterally, I wonder if there is a way to permanently inhibit any mapped controls with the leap motion. That way anything you have mapped to real buttons (HOTAS MFD etc) can be permanently inhibited and leap ignores them....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/10/2021 at 1:02 AM, Ourorborus said:

I have been holding out on this until the conflict between real controls and leap selection is resolved. Thinking laterally, I wonder if there is a way to permanently inhibit any mapped controls with the leap motion. That way anything you have mapped to real buttons (HOTAS MFD etc) can be permanently inhibited and leap ignores them....

I actually had this crazy idea of using a Teensy 3.2 board. It can act as a usb keyboard controller and also has built in capacitive touch sensing (and it's only £20). So I thought maybe if I attached cables from those sensor pins to the metal Warthog joystick and throttle handle that I may be able to program it to detect when my hand touched or released either, and so send a keyboard command to DCS to turn on and off hands individually as appropriate. Would of course require ED to provide keyboard binds for those functions but might be worth a try.  I probably just have way too much time on my hands.

RYZEN 5900X | 32GB | ASUS Strix RTX3090 | 500GB NVMe OS 1000GB NVMe DCS | Warthog HOTAS | HP Reverb G2 | VA & ViacomPRO

My DCS Apps:    Radio KAOS for DCS      KB Quick - Quick and Easy Kneeboards

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i just last week uninstalled Leap Motion because it was unsuable, i accidentaly saw this thread last night and reintalled the new Gemini drivers, and now i am blown away. it works almost perfectly fine apart from some minor bugs like the fact that sometimes have to disable/enable leap motion in DCS settings in order to work, and every time i enter the DCS leap motion settings i have to reselect "No pointers" in order to have no pointers. Also some times the right arm dissapears and i have to disable/enable again Leap motion via DCS settings

  • Like 1

Asus Z370-A | Intel i7 8700K @5.0GHz | Deepcool Maelstrom 120T Red | G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB DDR4 3200 | EVGA 1080ti 11GB SC2 | Kingston A2000 250GB NVMe 250GB for Windows 10 64-bit Pro OS, | Samsung 840PRO 120GB SSD & WD HDD 1TB & WD HDD 500GB for program files | 3x LG 24" IPS monitors | Thrustmaster Warthog Stick | Thrustmaster FCS throttle and pedals | HP Reverb Pro, Oculus Rift CV1 (any many more stuff non flight sim related :helpsmilie:)

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is the answer I've received from the leap motion support following my ticket.

Please @BIGNEWY I know the ED team is very occupied about delivery of AH64 and many other things to fix but please consider the fact that if the leap was perfectly working before the 2.7.7.15038, making the modification to reintroduce this good working in the coming 2.7.8 would be a nice christmas gift for all owner of VR headset and leap motion devices...Pleeeeeeease...

"Hi,

We have thoroughly tested DCS 2.7.7.15038 and unfortunately have not been able to get our hand tracking working in this by changing or modifying the dll as was possible in previous versions.

If you wish to use our Gemini V5 hand tracking in this version then you will need to wait for an official update from Eagle Dynamics due to the changes in file structure in this version. Please note that you can still use our previous Orion V4 hand tracking in this version of DCS World.

As I said previously we are in communication with them and will pass this feedback on as we are keen as well to see our latest hand tracking working well in the latest versions of DCS World!

I will close this support ticket as unfortunately there is nothing further that we can do currently. However, feel free to contact me if there is anything else that I can help with and I will be happy to assist further.

Kind regards,

Dan."
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

My 2 cents and hopefully some useful feedback for the Leap Motion support there currently is. I got my Leap Motion last weekend and mounted it to my Reverb G2 yesterday and hade some flights to test it out. I am using the Gemini 5.3 driver. I have created a simple mod I manage with OVGME to easily swap out the DLL file. A couple of observations:

  • I need to go into settings every time to disable and enable “leap motion support” to get the hands / arms to show up
  • The term “arms” is confusing. I now understand its a reference to your hands showing up in game. But to me they are not “arms”, but “hands” or “gloves”.
  • The “no pointers” setting is not working, or quickly breaking after selecting it. When I select “no pointers” I can actually press buttons and manipulate switches using both hands. However quite quickly these green pointer lines start showing up and everything that intersects with the green pointer line gets switched, but the actual fingers are no longer working. This usually happens to one hand first, and then quickly afterwards the other. 🙂
  • After a while one and eventually both hands stop showing up and no more interaction is possible. Sometimes one or even two hands show up again after going to the in-game settings menu and toggling the “leap motion support” again. I usually immediately see both hands again, but returning to the game usually hide’s one or both hands again. Only a reboot of the game fixes this for me. This might be an issue with the leap motion not tracking the hands instead of a integration issue, I will try and simulate my movements using the visualizer and see if my hands are correctly tracking later this week.
  • When just going about my business in game there are lots of accidental button pushes and switches toggling like most others already have reported. This is because of the disconnect between the real world positioning of controls and the simulated position.
  • In general, when the hands show up and the pointers are disabled, everything is accurate and it feels really immersive and adding a lot of value in VR, it’s the fix for the missing link for the disconnect we usually have between the real and simulated world.

I think the above issues are probably a result of us “frankenbuilding” the leap support in DCS with the gemini 5.2 - 5.3 version of the driver in combination with the leap support being young and “in progress”. I really hope DCS can update the integration to be natively working with the latest version and fix these smaller issue.

My suggestion for the biggest issue: “Acccidental presses because of real world hotas positioning vs in-game positioning”:
Maybe it is possible to only enable interaction with the cockpit if your hand makes a pointer. (so only your index finger is pointing, and the rest is a fist? An example of the gesture is found in this demo: https://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comments/qsdubz/have_you_tried_hand_tracking_with_leap_motion_or/) It could be an option like the “use hands to interact with hotas”. I would prefer this because it is the natural gesture you make when pressing something, maybe there is also a combination that can be made with a pinch gesture for rotating knobs?

To finish this off, I really like where this is headed. I will keep on testing the functionality and would love to help improving this feature! Thanks ED!


Edited by mimikiwi
Typo and added example of pointing gesture
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Leap Motion has fundamental issues. Mix it with the DCS implementation and you get a mess that makes me uninstall it and put it back in the drawer every single time I bother to try it.

Once you have used PointCTRL, you know where VR hand controllers need to go. PointCTRL tracks very reliably. Because it has buttons, your pointer is inactive until you click a button, then it stay on until you stop using it for a delay you can adjust to suit your needs. So I have no problem mixing physical HOTAS and control panel operation with virtual button pushing. I simply use whatever is most convenient. I almost never accidently bump a control with PointCTRL. VR hand tracking has a long way to go before it can compete with the simplicity, reliability and immersion provided by PointCTRL.

Physical controls are still the best for me. Whether you use a mouse, PointCTRL, VR controllers, or VR hand tracking, you have to be looking at what you want to control. Whereas I can be padlocked on a contact that is overhead and still reach down and flip switches, press buttons, pull levers, etc. when using control panels and HOTAS. If PC VR headsets ever start supporting mixed reality to an extent where you can see the real world controls as needed, perhaps with user controlled transparent areas, I would be very happy. 

 

 

  • Like 1

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are completely right of course, nothing can compete with physically touching something for all the reasons you already explained. Perhaps you enjoy this video then: 

 

I agree PointCtrl is affordable alternative and I have looked into it in the past. I do hope to try it someday. However I do not have it now so I cannot comment on it with any degree of reliability. I do like the pressing and holding part that keeps locked to the control it was pointing at. I think that might even be a great solution to combine with the pinch gesture with leap motion. So maybe for a full set of suggestions for each type of button with regards to the Leap hand tracking:

For push-buttons:

Point gesture: Point with your index finger while the rest of your hand is clenched like a fist and press the button.

For rotary knobs:

Pinch and hold gesture: Make a pinch while touching the knob. As long you hold the pinch you are locked to the knob and you can rotate your hand while pinching to rotate the knob. The lock is broken when the pinch is opened.

For toggle switches:

Point gesture: just like a button knob but just use it to flick the toggle up or down. (I think it also works like this)

or

Pinch and hold: Just like a rotary but instead of rotating you move your hand up or down to interact with the toggle.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The problem I had with using gestures is that the angle you have to reach for some controls obscures leap motion's ability to determine the gesture. So, I had to use the opposite hand or some unnatural poses to get the gesture to be recognized correctly, and in the process of fighting that, nearby controls were subject to random operation, including the canopy jettison. Some critical controls are often very close to some commonly needed controls: bad news when trying to use hand tracking or any other system that is so imprecise, including VR controllers. This is where pointCTRL shines: you won't damage anything until you wake up the finger you want to use and even then, only when you click one of the buttons. So the error rate with PointCTRL is comparable to or even lower than using real panels in VR with muscle memory and find by touch. 

  • Like 1

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Got to agree with the fingers locking into the control, particularly on the rotaries or multiple position toggles.

Alternatively could there be a visual highlight when the finger is within activation range of the button?

Additionally could the virtual hand be stopped from clipping through the button when it activates? Admittedly it might break immersion slightly but then watching your fingertip disappear into an mfd does that as well 😄

I think lock it on and then prevent the fingertip that's engaged from moving outside of the button stroke until the hand is pulled back away.

  • Like 1

Ryzen7 7800X3D / RTX3080ti / 64GB DDR5 4800 / Varjo Aero / Leap Motion / Kinect Headtracking
TM 28" Warthog Deltasim Hotas / DIY Pendular Rudders / DIY Cyclic Maglock Trimmer / DIY Abris / TM TX 599 evo wheel / TM T3PA pro / DIY 7+1+Sequential Shifter / DIY Handbrake / Cobra Clubman Seat
Shoehorned into a 43" x 43" cupboard.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I noticed the same indeed. Thats why at least you want a gesture that's easily recognised to function as an activation before being able to interact. So unless you make the gesture you can never really activate anything accidentally. But you will never solve everything because of the obvious masking problems which might fake a gesture or you being unable to click something. I think for sure it can be improved! Thanks for the feedback on PointCtrl. It's another reason for me to try them out at some point. 🙂


Edited by mimikiwi
typo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...