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Personally I don't think gestures would be the way to go. I've not really suffered from accidental clicking but then I generally use a closed hand whilst traversing the panels and then poke the controls with the index finger; seems to work ok. Obviously I have the pointers turned off.

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12 hours ago, edmuss said:

Personally I don't think gestures would be the way to go. I've not really suffered from accidental clicking but then I generally use a closed hand whilst traversing the panels and then poke the controls with the index finger; seems to work ok. Obviously I have the pointers turned off.

Good point. Never thought of it that way. I’ll try it that way as well. It would be best if you would not need a gesture to active interaction at all, it’s just so annoying jettisoning all your stores when you reach for your throttle. 🙂 (for me thats because the throttle still is on a desk, working on improving that)

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3 minutes ago, mimikiwi said:

Good point. Never thought of it that way. I’ll try it that way as well. It would be best if you would not need a gesture to active interaction at all, it’s just so annoying jettisoning all your stores when you reach for your throttle. 🙂 (for me thats because the throttle still is on a desk, working on improving that)

I made a shelf for my warthog throttle 9 years ago when I got it and now I have virtual hands I've tweaked it so that it's within half an inch of the position in the virtual A10 cockpit; likewise for the stick.  As I grip the hotas the DCS gloves land on the ingame hotas perfectly and then disappear when I put the control input in, if the input doesn't change (just resting my hand on the physical throttle/stick) then the DCS gloves do exactly the same 🙂

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For hand tracking to work as well as it needs to work, multiple cameras at very different angles are needed. But well designed gloves are the best way to know the hand gestures. With gloves to handle the gestures, a two camera system could accurately know hand position. But to date, none of the gloves work very well if at all with DCS. Gloves with two or more cameras and an activation button on the side of each index finger similar to point control would be the ideal for me: get nearly 100% accurate hand position and gesture, but only interact with controls after pressing the activation button. Then I could see the animated hands/arms but instantly and reliably toggle between real world controls and virtual controls with a click of a button.

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Out of curiosity, is there a dev feedback from the forums on a particular subject i.e. leapmotion bugs/suggestions etc. or does it just get picked up from general threads?

@BIGNEWYis this something that you pick up and pass on to devs or is there a specific route to pass information forwards for consideration?

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2 hours ago, edmuss said:

Out of curiosity, is there a dev feedback from the forums on a particular subject i.e. leapmotion bugs/suggestions etc. or does it just get picked up from general threads?

@BIGNEWYis this something that you pick up and pass on to devs or is there a specific route to pass information forwards for consideration?

Please keep feeding back here on the forum for DCS Leap stuff, I feedback to the team and test leap for the team. 

We should have support for the new drivers in the next open beta patch. 

If you have LEAP feedback try directly on their site, the forum seems pretty active. 

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8 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

Please keep feeding back here on the forum for DCS Leap stuff, I feedback to the team and test leap for the team. 

We should have support for the new drivers in the next open beta patch. 

If you have LEAP feedback try directly on their site, the forum seems pretty active. 

@BIGNEWY Any chance of adding the offset and tilt options for ultraleap into the game. Got a 3d printed mount for the ultraleap but it has the sensor above and tilted down to keep it out of the way of the headset cameras. Really messes with the tracking down lower in the cockpit. There are standard API commands for it so hopefully an easy add.

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I will mention it to the team, but can not promise anything 

thanks

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12 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

Please keep feeding back here on the forum for DCS Leap stuff, I feedback to the team and test leap for the team. 

We should have support for the new drivers in the next open beta patch. 

If you have LEAP feedback try directly on their site, the forum seems pretty active. 

Thanks for the response, I've spoken to Dan @ ultraleap recently about some lost tracking issues I was having but we've worked around those; essentially too many IR reflective surfaces (wooden desk and wall being the worst culprits) causing indistinct hand outline, sheet surfaces with self adhesive closed cell foam tape and it's infinitely better.

 

I think the summary of my main issues right now would be: -

  1. The hands dissapearing for extended periods - with VR mouse enabled the right hand is often MIA and won't reinitialise, with VR mouse disabled the mouse crosshair is always visible but hands seem slightly more robustly reinitialised; my personal preference would be VR mouse enabled so both systems can work together.  I think it's linked to the virtual hands being 'switched off' when there is control input from hotas/mouse.
     
  2. DCS doesn't retain leap motion settings - it needs to be renabled everytime you start DCS up and the desired pointers operation needs to be disabled/reenabled.
     
  3. A little more feedback on button presses - either a visual indicator/highlight on a control to show that the finger is within activation area and then 'lock' the finger to that control only until it moves back a certain amount from the control.  In a similar vein, when using the mouse to click a continuous control (A10C seat height adjustment for example), once the mouse button is clicked then command authority of that control is locked on and you can move the mouse wherever you want and it won't release till you unclick the mouse.
     
  4. Have a pinch action for rotaries and toggles - fairly self explanatory, once pinched on it locks the hand to the postion and then wrist rotation/translation handles the movement of the control; currently it's a momentary contact and can be tricky to flick the switch just right.
     
  5. Scaling of the glove model as reported by @Bailey here - the glove model appears to be slightly out of position/scaling with the skeletal hand, the leap skeletal hands scale according to the physical size as seen by cameras.  There are also issues with fingers, a knife hand converges the fingertips and clips them through each other and when making an OK symbol in some orientations the glove fingertips aren't touching.


    Other than the above it works really quite nicely for the most part.  Some controls just aren't practical in my case due to constricted space so VR mouse control is also handy, with VR mouse turned off I have to use the headset as a pointer and either click the mouse buttons seperately or use a bind on the hotas.

     

 

 

 


Edited by edmuss
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Thanks for the feedback I will show the team, we continue to improve. 

 

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23 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

I will mention it to the team, but can not promise anything 

thanks

@BIGNEWYLegend! That's all I can ask 🙂 But on that note I did also notice something else... or an adjunct to the original issue. I'm using a cockpit rig (obbutto) which places me a lot lower down and flatter than an ordinary desk setup would. It seems the current scaling is designed around a desk setting (which makes sense) but means it is very off for this rig which is why I can't get my hands below the bottom of the left and right MFD's before hitting my own legs. Even moving the tracking unit around I just could not get my hand movements lower down to match. Maybe the offset/tilt would resolve it or maybe there are additional elements in the API to adjust the mesh/scaling. It's most obvious when I grab the stick as my hand in-game is inside the middle to lower part of the centre Data entry pad, so waaaay to high considering I adjusted the stick as low as it can go and is almost between my legs. Anything the team can do around this issue would be awesome, but for now back to the trusty old mouse 😞 

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Its a problem I also face with my desk, I would like to see the distance of the hands or how far they travel to be made adjustable, I often hit my desk trying to poke a button or switch. 

At the moment I can not promise anything, we will need to be patient but things are moving along behind the scenes here. 

Thanks 

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I've also had desk/hand interface issues, indeed some panels in the A10C are unusable with leap but that is particular to my setup and not a problem with the system. 

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The stick and throttle are positioned almost perfectly for the virtual hands in the A10C, I have since covered the keyboard tray in black foam sheet (to absorb the IR cast out by the leap unit and accentuate the hands), also the shelf that the throttle sits on and where the pint jug is sat.  The top of the wheel servo base is just below the UFC and the MFDs are just either side of it.  The gear shifter to the right of the servo base was causing massive issues with the right MFD but I found that I only needed to lift the chair up by 2" and it's all clear!

I do have to set my VR position forwards from default otherwise I can't physically reach forwards enough without clashing, not an issue though.

I'm not sure if you could alter the motion of the hands (akin to headtracking curves) without it being immersion breaking; that said, without a physical point of reference for your hand you're only relying on the visual display to control the movement and there might not even be a disconnect between the two?

Be awesome if it could be done but due to the nature of the planes in which the hands are moving (panels/controls at all sorts of odd angles and positions) it might be hard to take a reference datum. Possibly take the datum as the current head position and the further away the hands move within a sphere the more the curve changes.  I know what I'm trying to explain but I don't think it's coming out right! 😄

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I maintain that a good solution to avoid unwanted interactions would be to activate / deactivate virtual hands by turning the palms of hands in front of the LeapMotion, as I’ve done before with DCLeap.

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7 minutes ago, Kariyann71 said:

I maintain that a good solution to avoid unwanted interactions would be to activate / deactivate virtual hands by turning the palms of hands in front of the LeapMotion, as I’ve done before with DCLeap.

We are currently testing key binds to enable or disable each hand individually, so a single hand can be used if the user wishes. 

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I keep loosing my right glove in VR (reverb G2). justs disapears after about 5min if I don't look at my hand during that time . Leapmotion can't seem to pick it up after that either when waving in front of the camera. Leapmotion is mounted on the VR headset.

instructions for setup seem a bit thin on the ground for Leap and VR.

Any ideas appreciated. Thanks

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I think hands disappearing is linked to the gloves being hidden when input is added to the hotas. You'll note that you can't use your left physical hand to hold the stick out of centre and then the right hand to manipulate the cockpit; you need to release the stick to return the hand.

With regards to the right hand glove disappearing, it seems to be greatly exacerbated if you have VR mouse enabled. If you disable it then the glove unhiding is much more robust but you get a constant crosshair in the centre of vision.

My preferred setup is to have VR mouse enabled, position the crosshair just below centre and the crosshair will then auto hide itself after a couple of seconds. I have bound pinky lever + CMS left and right for respective mouse clicks; to activate the mouse cursor right click then use the headset to point the cursor and the click accordingly. Still a bit flaky with the right glove and sometimes it's worse than others but I'm not 100% what the trigger is.


Edited by edmuss

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Hi edmuss. Thank you very much for your all your help.

I'm flying the viper at the moment so the stick is on the RHS. what I've noticed is if I Esc out and disable then re enable the leap motion I no longer seem to loose my right glove, it just gets picked up when it comes into the camera's view. No idea why, I suppose it's a work in progress.

I'll try out your suggestions.

 

All the best buddy!!👍

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Ah yeah, I'm flying the hog.

Yeah a reset of the leap motion settings works but it's a bit of a faff when the whole point is to increase immersion not break it 😄

I'll test out the reset as above to see if it gives more robust tracking/unhiding of the right glove.

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  • Leap motion gemini 5.2 drivers. Users may need to update their leap motion drivers to the latest gemini drivers.

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/news/changelog/openbeta/2.7.9.17830/

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I can confirm the latest update does fix the leap motion with the latest gemini drivers. However I am still facing the issue of alway re-enabling the DCS ultraleap support every time the sim starts. But more annoying is the hands disappearing after a while. I usually am able to perform a cold start, but as soon as I am in the air and have the hands on the HOTAS for extended periods one or both hands stop appearing. A reset of the leap support sometimes works in bringing a single hand back and sometimes both, but it is still very flaky. I have tried disabling VR mouse and the same problem remains, it even feels the hands sometimes stay visible in their last tracked position which I never had before. So it still needs some work but I like the steady progress the good people of ED are making on the subject. I’ll keep trying if there is a workaround to always keep the hands working in a flight…

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