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sublime

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15 hours ago, Whisper said:

Not exactly the same, though, for me.

I think the huge wings play a big role during translational movement, and that affects the behavior most of us expect from flying the other DCS choppers.

Notably, the moment where the wings stop producing lift is a critical one and the hind drops suddenly like a brick. If you are decelerating fast, you may not be prepared to this super sudden increase in rate of descent.

Added to that, I find the trail rotor rather weak, it's like it can barely keep the aircraft stable at max collective, and if you are at altitude, it can prove tricky during hover.

Third thing, I feel like the collective has more "lag" , I really need to anticipate more on the collective when approaching hovering phases, the Hip feels more responsive on this.

 

Another effect of the wings appear at speed, they add their lift to any pitch change, making the hind very reactive to pitching up, which will end catastrophically if the pitch goes past the max AOA , the wings suddenly stop producing lift and are huge airbrakes, the hind drops down while flipping its nose upward, and you need quite a bit of altitude and self control to recover from that 🙂

 

Well, at least these are my interpretations of what I witnessed flying the hind so far, I hope the manual, or some hind expert, will come up soon to explain some of its behavior 🙂

 

 

I think it is all on the point.
You described everything which I experienced during my first time in the Hind.
Not even on my first time in the Hip I had to struggle with so much danger to get into VRS.

Maybe we all expected the Hind beeing an attack helicopter a bit more forgiving and agile than the Hip.

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its a fast and stable gunship.

she is setup for speed and accuracy.

not ease of landing and taking off.

like a transport would be. 

transports need to be more forgiving.

because dropping stuff off and picking stuff up is their main job.

in the hind that is a low priority.

making guns and rockets fire straight at 270kph is her job.

a stable gun platform.

this also costs some agility. for stability.

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9 hours ago, Whisper said:

The Yaw "trim" is kind of misunderstood and it explains the behavior seen in your video and against which you struggle.

You'll notice that on ED missions, quick missions, etc.... that Yaw Channel is not selected.

The Yaw channel is not a trim, it's linked to the gyros and, the moment it is pressed, it will apply yaw so that the nose keeps pointing in the azimuth it was when you pressed it.

So imagine you press the Yaw channel ON button while facing north, then turn right eastward. The Yaw channel will apply left Yaw to try to push the nose of the aircraft back north. It's working the same way as the Yaw channel in the Ka50, actually, if I'm not mistaken.

I basically don't use this channel. It should be usefull during a missile run, for example, you align on target, activate Yaw AP, and don't have to bother with the rudder anymore to keep your nose right on your target azimuth.

I will test your theory, but it is not working like in the Ka-50. It's Not the same behaviour. For the most part I fly the Hind like the Ka-50. Press trim button (what in the Ka-50 stopps AP channels from assisting so you don't Fight them), do whatever I want to do and when the chopper has desired vector and attitude I release the trim and everything is set.


Edited by nazradu
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On 6/17/2021 at 1:58 PM, Scofflaw said:

 

I used to think the KA-50 was hard to fly, but now it feels like the sharpest scalpel in DCS after flying the hind.

 

Not complaining, it'll just be extra rewarding once I'm not staggering around the skies like a drunk.

I have a comment about that. You don't FLY the KA-50 you just give it polite suggestions. And no I am not trying to make some lame Yakov Smirnoff "in Russia" joke. I am DEAD serious.

 

Most people that have issues flying the Ka50 have them because they don't truly understand how the trim system works. The are basically fighting the computer for control of the helicopter. You make course changes but the computer does it's best to return to what you actually set it at. Basically you sort of enter a "tug of war" if you will with your own helicopter.

 

Once you learn the Ka50 it is actually the easiest one to fly. It is certainly the most stable by far.

 

Given, I don't have much experience with the HIND yet so this may change later but as of right now I would rate difficulty from easiest to hardest as such, Ka50, Huey, HiP, Gazelle, and finally the HIND. I place HIND last because this bird LOVES (LOVES) the vortex ring. I have a LOT of experience flying DCS helicopters and the HIND is alarmingly easy to put into VRS. Really that is the only issue I have had besides drifting around a corner sending me into a rotation. 

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On 6/17/2021 at 8:37 PM, Beirut said:

 

I found the Ka-50 the "easiest" to fly, in that it somehow made sense to me. I can handle it pretty well. 

 

Taking off in the Hind, however, is like pissing into a tornado; it's all over the place and not particularly good. I can fly it nicely, but taking off is a beeeg challenge for me. Looking forward to learning it, but the Hind is really making me love my Blackshark. And my Blackshark is making me love the Hind.

 

Russian helos FTW! :drinks_drunk:

There is a way to take off to deal with that issue. It is called light on wheels. What you do is give it just enough power to create a bit of lift but not enough to actually lift the wheels off the ground. You observe the helicopters tendencies then compensate until it appears stabilized THEN you give it enough collective to lift it off the ground. Doing it in this matter allows for controlled take offs. 

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I need, I need, I need... What about my wants? QuickSilver original.

"Off with his job" Mr Burns on the Simpsons.

"I've seen steering wheels / arcade sticks / flight sticks for over a hundred dollars; why be surprised at a 150 dollar item that includes the complexities of this controller?! It has BLINKY LIGHTS!!" author unknown.

 

 

These titles are listed in the chronological order I purchased them.

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On 6/17/2021 at 10:14 PM, Grievo said:


A stable hover is massively reliant on peripheral vision, and the Hip and the Huey are glass houses by comparison to the Hind, which has almost no downward visibility in the hover. 

The HIND (and HiP) have a gauge to help enter and maintain a stable hover. 

I need, I need, I need... What about my wants? QuickSilver original.

"Off with his job" Mr Burns on the Simpsons.

"I've seen steering wheels / arcade sticks / flight sticks for over a hundred dollars; why be surprised at a 150 dollar item that includes the complexities of this controller?! It has BLINKY LIGHTS!!" author unknown.

 

 

These titles are listed in the chronological order I purchased them.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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38 minutes ago, ZQuickSilverZ said:

I have a comment about that. You don't FLY the KA-50 you just give it polite suggestions. And no I am not trying to make some lame Yakov Smirnoff "in Russia" joke. I am DEAD serious.

 

Most people that have issues flying the Ka50 have them because they don't truly understand how the trim system works. The are basically fighting the computer for control of the helicopter. You make course changes but the computer does it's best to return to what you actually set it at. Basically you sort of enter a "tug of war" if you will with your own helicopter.

 

Once you learn the Ka50 it is actually the easiest one to fly. It is certainly the most stable by far.

 

Given, I don't have much experience with the HIND yet so this may change later but as of right now I would rate difficulty from easiest to hardest as such, Ka50, Huey, HiP, Gazelle, and finally the HIND. I place HIND last because this bird LOVES (LOVES) the vortex ring. I have a LOT of experience flying DCS helicopters and the HIND is alarmingly easy to put into VRS. Really that is the only issue I have had besides drifting around a corner sending me into a rotation. 

I wouldnt say it loves the VRS, more rather those big wings are an impediment at low speed and act as an air brake if you pitch up too fast. Essentially you drive it like you would a race horse - go fast, take wide corners and dont pull back on the reigns or you're gonna get thrown off and ran over.

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OK I am beginning to understand that yaw channel. What @Whisper sayd is correct it will set a heading for you and try to keep that heading. If you try to turn just with cyclic it will fight you. If you manage to turn with cyclic only, the trimmer button will not set a new heading on the yaw channel and you end up in that peddal stuck situation. If you introduce and assist your turn with pedals the yaw channel will catch up and set new heading when you release pressure from the pedals.

 


Edited by nazradu
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On 6/20/2021 at 4:04 AM, nazradu said:

OK I am beginning to understand that yaw channel. What @Whisper sayd is correct it will set a heading for you and try to keep that heading. If you try to turn just with cyclic it will fight you. If you manage to turn with cyclic only, the trimmer button will not set a new heading on the yaw channel and you end up in that peddal stuck situation. If you introduce and assist your turn with pedals the yaw channel will catch up and set new heading when you release pressure from the pedals.

 

 

Nice video, and good explanation.  I haven’t had a chance to try the Hind, but I imagine based on this that the trim release is optional.   I fly a helo now that has trim micro switches on the pedals, but I prefer to use the trim release for 99% of any maneuvers, unless I’m in the clouds on instruments.  Just technique, though, and to each their own.

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On 6/20/2021 at 3:14 AM, ZQuickSilverZ said:

There is a way to take off to deal with that issue. It is called light on wheels. What you do is give it just enough power to create a bit of lift but not enough to actually lift the wheels off the ground. You observe the helicopters tendencies then compensate until it appears stabilized THEN you give it enough collective to lift it off the ground. Doing it in this matter allows for controlled take offs. 

This is great advice.  If you just crank up the throttle and take off you'll get off but have a really strong yaw and control issues.  I've found she goes right up nice gentle and smooth if you apply power much slower to get airborne

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Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

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you need to take a minimum of 5 seconds to go from no collective to take off power.

this allows the engines to balance their power output.

it also gives all the other systems time.

 

count it out as you pull collective.

one thousand

two thousand

three thousand.

four thousand 

five thousand.

 

it actually feels a long time.

and that is just the minimum.

no harm in going slower.

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Well in real life you would want it to spool down and cool off before you completely shut it down. This is meant to keep service life down and to prevent coking of any moving parts. It being a sim, you get a new aircraft every time you get in the aircraft, so no it doesnt really matter.

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7 minutes ago, sublime said:

Speaking of time does it really matter if you let the apu run the recommended minute or so and so on?

ED has added features to engine preformance to other modules later. i'm still struggling with the P-47 main bearing going out. i always try to practice the recommended operating procedures.

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If you are running out of pedal authority to the right, you're just overweight. Check your loadout & fuel in the ME.  

 

With full fuel, four Shturms & four rocket pods, you'll be 108-110% over MGTOW.

 

You can still take off overweight with a very careful or rolling TO, but you're not gonna throw it around with pedals like you rented it with a gift card.  

 

You'd have to reduce your fuel to 50% to be 100% MGTOW.  

 

 


Edited by fargo007
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