Mi-24P Landing Notes

[S. Low]

16 hours ago, ojanim said:

I tried the Hind for the first time today and it seems to be a VRS-beast. It likes only shallow descends and tight break turns or maneuver to bleed speed fast can be really dangerous. The timing for the collective to maintain a descend rate during tight maneuver without getting into VRS seemed really difficult.
To me it seemed that you realize the transition from hover to translational lift to effective translational lift better in the Huey or Hip without constantly looking at the airspeed. Maybe I realize this effects better with more time in the Hind.

It’s a brick with wings. You can indeed do a harsh j hook and land, but you have to manage the collective closely (modulate it, as Casmo would say).

 

I agree there isn’t a good cockpit visualization of the transition from ETL to GE, but as big as the hind is there might not be one in reality. Keep a close eye on the VSI

[tusler]

Thanks Relic, what I like doing is CSAR and with the hind trying too fish a pilot out of water proved very interesting. I was able to figure it out but it requires some very quick adjustment and precise collective flying.

[ojanim]

5 hours ago, Relic said:

It’s a brick with wings. You can indeed do a harsh j hook and land, but you have to manage the collective closely (modulate it, as Casmo would say).

 

I agree there isn’t a good cockpit visualization of the transition from ETL to GE, but as big as the hind is there might not be one in reality. Keep a close eye on the VSI

 

I did my second round today and accepted that it is a brick with wings. Once you avoid harsh maneuver like to tight turns or sudden pitch up it flies really smooth. Beside the VSI it is important to keep a close eye on the rotor pitch gauge to never move to far away from the ideal rotor pitch for a forward movement take off. There seem to be a small delay on the collective so you can get into VRS easily even if you closely maintained a descendrate on the VSI. It happened a lot during my first try.

Edited June 20, 2021 by ojanim

[MemphisBelle]

On 6/18/2021 at 10:28 AM, Viking 1-1 said:

Still don't get the hang of landing this thing...

 

Going down slowly, pay attention to not descent to fast, but at some point during hover the chopper just starts to spin like crazy and falls out of the sky ...

 

 

I have a similar issue and want to create a Thread in the Bug Forums about it

[ojanim]

23 minutes ago, MemphisBelle said:

I have a similar issue and want to create a Thread in the Bug Forums about it

 

I have not gotten into a spin, but I noticed that the tail rotor seems to be very weak to counter torque. Sometimes you need a lot of deflection on the pedals. Maybe the spin happens when input to anti-torque measures comes to late and the already weak tail rotor can not counter the more increased rotational force. It may be that the weak tail rotor is a bug or a feature representing the real thing.

[Quadg]

its the dampening on the pedals that make them slow to respond to quick inputs.

with the dampening on they move slowly at a set speed.

it takes them time to catch up to your pedals/twist grip/key inputs.

which means if you are late with the pedal you actually struggle to catch up.

you can turn the dampening off with switch 27 on the front dash.

with helicopters you need to be early with inputs.

you need to be one step ahead of the beast.

which takes practise.

why nobody can fly them at first.

try turning the dampening off till you get your timing straight then turn it back on. for smoother flying.

this has nothing to do with yaw trim/autopilot (although the yaw trim may not work with dampening off)

[TheSkipjack95]

Wags' numbers seem to be pretty much what I get during my landings, which I managed to shorten enough to land at the Damascus helo bases.

Settling with power doesn't seem to be an option when approaching VRS, so keeping that descent as controlled as possible is key.

Another issue I noted was the abysmal forward and downwards visibility (ie where that sodding runway should be), so the warbird approach seems to work best :

Downwind at 200-300m (200m is better imo cause you can keep a shallow descent after).
Decel below 150, configure gear, retrim, turn off yaw SAS as required, watch out for pitch oscillations at 140km/h, don't correct them.
When abeam your landing aimpoint, start a slight turn and keep it going all the way down to short finals, keeping the runway in sight as long as possible.
Do not let the nose drop lest you pickup too much speed.
Keep your collective inputs as small as possible to avoid stepping too much into your power reserve (which the tail rotor will merrily eat into as well)

On short finals switch to peripheral vision to gauge your position, flare and touch with the mains, lower collective and catch the yaw change, use the hand brake to stop.

Overall, trying to fly the Hind like a Hip will get you killed. It is designed to operate at a very specific regime, and the compromises made show elsewhere.

Edited June 21, 2021 by TheSkipjack95

[Danzig]

this one is so damn hard to land verticaly... how many more crashes?!

 

[S. Low]

46 minutes ago, Danzig said:

this one is so damn hard to land verticaly... how many more crashes?!

 

Well... what do  you mean vertically? It's better to always come down at an angle with any helo. Don't make it harder on yourself than it needs to be. Doing a straight down landing would need to be very slow and probably need crew help.

Edited June 21, 2021 by S. Low

[rayrayblues]

On 6/18/2021 at 1:28 AM, Viking 1-1 said:

Still don't get the hang of landing this thing...

 

Going down slowly, pay attention to not descent to fast, but at some point during hover the chopper just starts to spin like crazy and falls out of the sky ...

 

 

 

On 6/18/2021 at 3:44 AM, RealDCSpilot said:

@Viking 1-1 Avoid long hover-like slow descending approaches. This beast isn't designed to stay at a fixed point in air for long. Try to loose speed with long flat nose-up approaches or fly curves (slight down spiral) around the landing zone to get safely near the ground. Also be aware of your weight, always start with as much fuel as is truly needed.

 

 

On 6/18/2021 at 10:54 PM, tusler said:

The Hind for me will get into VRS real quick and unlike the MI-8 I do not notice any warning vib's or clues it is happening. It is heavy and while I was looking out the window, next thing I know I am sinking like a rock. I wish there was an option to put the VSI in my view while looking out the window as I approach the landing spot. Rolling landings are easy but pull this bird back into a hover at 60 feet or so and try to descend straight down and I have my hands full until I get into ground effect. It is a fantastic module though!

 

What I have noticed is that unlike the Hip or Huey, there is no shaking or vibrating when coming out of TL.

You are falling before you know it. IDK if this is like the real thing or not. Perhaps they could model some type of vibration.

[OPEC]

Yesterday I was able to land this thing for the first time where i wanted it to land. Took a lot of time an patience, but actually its really rewarding. 

 

The Hind itself is killer, absolutly love it. 

[sergkar]

With my now again working sound I just tried it out and had quite some problems configuring the axes. As a result it really behave like a bull and I crashed - or so I thought. Because my cockpit glass had (I think) some cracks and the heli was at an 45 degree angle, but my log showed 1 successful landing.

 

Could that be a bug?

[FragBum]

Um it seems fine to me, maybe beginners luck but not difficult at all.

 

[sergkar]

Well, I wouldn't call this a landing (and also not "luck" ):

 

 

Got probably logged as successful landing and not as crash, because of the end position?

 

[RealDCSpilot]

On 6/23/2021 at 5:25 PM, rayrayblues said:

What I have noticed is that unlike the Hip or Huey, there is no shaking or vibrating when coming out of TL.

Exiting TL and imminent VRS shaking is already getting exported via telemetry output from the game (for motion seats, bass-shakers / Simshaker for Aviators). I guess, because of EA, the visual cockpit animation will be added later.

[rayrayblues]

8 hours ago, RealDCSpilot said:

Exiting TL and imminent VRS shaking is already getting exported via telemetry output from the game (for motion seats, bass-shakers / Simshaker for Aviators). I guess, because of EA, the visual cockpit animation will be added later.

 

I hope so.

 

So far, besides the Auto Pilot Channel H, the biggest change I have made is zero curve on the collective axis.

It makes it far easier to control your descent rate. Do not descend any faster than 200 m/min.

 

[Baltic Pirate]

On 6/20/2021 at 12:47 AM, ojanim said:

I tried the Hind for the first time today and it seems to be a VRS-beast. It likes only shallow descends and tight break turns or maneuver to bleed speed fast can be really dangerous. The timing for the collective to maintain a descend rate during tight maneuver without getting into VRS seemed really difficult.
To me it seemed that you realize the transition from hover to translational lift to effective translational lift better in the Huey or Hip without constantly looking at the airspeed. Maybe I realize this effects better with more time in the Hind.

Indeed. I find it quite a handful. Now I admit, I do like the challenge. I decided to experiment a bit. Took axes and tweaks from Chuck"s Mi-8 guide. Seemed to improve handling considerably. Perhaps its just me though.  Also I clicked control helper and rudder trimmer off in the specials menu and I make sure the AP yaw channel is green. with that it seems to become a tamer beast.  Landing it is still like trying to balance a 2kg egg on a pencil tip, but I am getting better results now. More accurate flying and better control over the whole process.

 

I use Warthog HOTAS stick and throttle with the pendular rudder. No extensions. I've got the virpil collective on the way, wondering how that will perform.

[Razor18]

On 6/27/2021 at 6:59 PM, rayrayblues said:

 

I hope so.

 

So far, besides the Auto Pilot Channel H, the biggest change I have made is zero curve on the collective axis.

It makes it far easier to control your descent rate. Do not descend any faster than 200 m/min.

 

 

 Didn't read this DCS manual yet, but russian or european aircraft VVIs show climb and descend in m / seconds, not hundreds of meters per minutes.

 

2 minutes ago, Razor18 said:

 

 

Edited July 1, 2021 by Razor18

[Stratos]

Any tip to slow this beast? I end a lot of time into a VRS, and don't know how to properly slow it and still keep it flying.

[Razor18]

First, you need to start slowing very early. The Hind is a squirell and a whale in one heavy body. You will need to watch two gauges mostly: speed and VVI. When starting to decel, reduce collective so much that VVI is at, or just a bit below 0 m/s (actually, you can even descend faster, until you do not slow down near transitional speed). You will need to reduce MUCH collective, once you lift the nose up, and keep it there. Then watch your speed indicator going down. There will be a certain speed (I didn't try in Mi-24 yet, so dunno from the top of my head), when you will see your descend speed increasing, because you start loosing transitional lift. Note this airspeed, and anticipate the the increasing descend speed next time at this very speed by increasing collective back up as much as to arrest descent, because if you let it go below 2-3 m/s, you can't arrest it any more. So watch VVI and try to keep yourself from descending too fast by ading collective (with corresponding right pedal to counter torque effect), to maximize descend speed less than 2 m/s. Then when you slowed down, push the nose back down just as much as not starting backing up, just hovering.

I dunno how to describe it better, hope this helps some.

[Stratos]

Need to try it. Any estimated height to start the slow down/descent?

[Razor18]

Nope. I always descend pretty low before slowing down so that there will be not too much height to delicately loose in hover.

[rayrayblues]

I read somewhere that they are going to introduce at least a vibration or some shaking when exiting ETL, similar to the Mi-8 or Huey.

Right now there is no way to tell when ETL ends and VRS starts until you are falling, usually too late to recover. There's no warning, it just drops.   

[SunDevilPilot]

Sim shaker vibrates when entering VRS…. A little screen shake would be ok I guess. 

[press]

On 6/27/2021 at 7:59 PM, rayrayblues said:

 

I hope so.

 

So far, besides the Auto Pilot Channel H, the biggest change I have made is zero curve on the collective axis.

It makes it far easier to control your descent rate. Do not descend any faster than 200 m/min.

 

 

 

In the Russian VSI one notch is 1 m/s. If the needle is on 5, than that's 5 m/s of vertical speed.

 

200 m/min is around 3 m/s which might get you in VRS or at least a 'bumpy' landing.