Change cockpit FOV without changing outside LOD distance?

[GunSlingerAUS]

As a user of a 55" display, I find the default FOV to be way too narrow - I always zoom back until I can see the top of the HSD in my FOV when looking straight ahead. However, this causes external objects to not be rendered until I'm at a closer physical distance than if I was using the default FOV. So ships, scenery and aircraft aren't rendered until I'm several miles closer than if I was using the normal, zoomed in FOV.

 

Is there a way to "decouple" my cockpit FOV from the external rendering distance? With larger displays becoming more affordable, I think we'll start to see more users wanting to see more of their cockpit, without being at a distinct disadvantage when it comes to external visibility.

Edited June 18, 2021 by GunSlingerAUS

[IronMike]

14 hours ago, GunSlingerAUS said:

As a user of a 55" display, I find the default FOV to be way too narrow - I always zoom back until I can see the top of the HSD in my FOV when looking straight ahead. However, this causes external objects to not be rendered until I'm at a closer physical distance than if I was using the default FOV. So ships, scenery and aircraft aren't rendered until I'm several miles closer than if I was using the normal, zoomed in FOV.

 

Is there a way to "decouple" my cockpit FOV from the external rendering distance? With larger displays becoming more affordable, I think we'll start to see more users wanting to see more of their cockpit, without being at a distinct disadvantage when it comes to external visibility.

 

 

Yes there is, what you are looking for is to move the head position back. Unfortunately it is not just as setting your FOV in other sims, so you cant use an FOV calculator with it or similar. right ctrl + right shift and the numpad keys move the head around. However, I dont think you can lock this as your default position, so you need to do it every time you spawn. Not sure if you can edit a file to set a certain position as your default, that is something you have to ask ED, as these head movement inputs are basically the same in all aircraft.

 

What would be worth maybe, is defining a custom snapview with the head position you prefer, and then it should be a matter of pressing one button each time you spawn.

Edited June 18, 2021 by IronMike

[GunSlingerAUS]

Thank you so much - this issue has plagued me for bloody ages. I was initially trying to find a lua tweak that would change my default FOV to be further back, but after a few months I realised this totally screwed with the external rendering distance of objects. I didn't realise why I couldn't see objects that other players could see perfectly. 

 

Being able to move the head back to expose more of the cockpit without changing LOD/render distance of external objects will be a massive boon for me, so thanks again. Now to figure out how to make it permanent!

[IronMike]

10 minutes ago, GunSlingerAUS said:

Thank you so much - this issue has plagued me for bloody ages. I was initially trying to find a lua tweak that would change my default FOV to be further back, but after a few months I realised this totally screwed with the external rendering distance of objects. I didn't realise why I couldn't see objects that other players could see perfectly. 

 

Being able to move the head back to expose more of the cockpit without changing LOD/render distance of external objects will be a massive boon for me, so thanks again. Now to figure out how to make it permanent!

 

Check out how to setup custom snapviews. wont be permanent but at least only press of a button.

[Donut]

9 hours ago, GunSlingerAUS said:

Thank you so much - this issue has plagued me for bloody ages. I was initially trying to find a lua tweak that would change my default FOV to be further back, but after a few months I realised this totally screwed with the external rendering distance of objects. I didn't realise why I couldn't see objects that other players could see perfectly. 

 

Being able to move the head back to expose more of the cockpit without changing LOD/render distance of external objects will be a massive boon for me, so thanks again. Now to figure out how to make it permanent!

Beware though that moving the head position will change the HUD and mirror views to the point where they are unusable.  You may be able to find the right balance, but I could not and just resigned myself to adjusting the FOV.

[GunSlingerAUS]

On 6/19/2021 at 11:49 PM, Donut said:

Beware though that moving the head position will change the HUD and mirror views to the point where they are unusable.  You may be able to find the right balance, but I could not and just resigned myself to adjusting the FOV.

 

Yep, you're right - the windows and HUD scale very weirdly when doing this. I don't think it's doable at the moment, so I guess dot labels will have to make do. 

[GunSlingerAUS]

Btw, I've started having some fun in the Falcon - that has a much better default viewing angle, allowing me to see all the major displays. Seems much further back than the Tomcat?

[draconus]

2 hours ago, GunSlingerAUS said:

Btw, I've started having some fun in the Falcon - that has a much better default viewing angle, allowing me to see all the major displays. Seems much further back than the Tomcat?

You have the fov in control - you set it up to suite your setup. What do you expect from the HB? Your request on objects rendering should go to ED wishlist.

[GunSlingerAUS]

That the default viewing angle for the Tomcat matches the Hornet and Falcon - which appear to be much further back. That way I don't need to use my FOV slider, and thus make all external objects smaller than they need be. 

[draconus]

2 minutes ago, GunSlingerAUS said:

That the default viewing angle for the Tomcat matches the Hornet and Falcon - which appear to be much further back. That way I don't need to use my FOV slider, and thus make all external objects smaller than they need be. 

It's not further, it's just different fov. The head position is correct as is. If they change the default fov the result will be the same as you changing the fov - HB module and settings won't change how DCS engine is rendering at what fov.

[Gunslinger22]

23 hours ago, GunSlingerAUS said:

That the default viewing angle for the Tomcat matches the Hornet and Falcon - which appear to be much further back. That way I don't need to use my FOV slider, and thus make all external objects smaller than they need be. 

If anything, you actually sit a little too low for what you see when sitting in a Tomcat. You do sit very far forward in the Tomcat though.ough.

[captain_dalan]

14 hours ago, Gunslinger22 said:

If anything, you actually sit a little too low for what you see when sitting in a Tomcat. You do sit very far forward in the Tomcat though.ough.

Every time i start DCS and i plan to fly the F-14 (99% of the time really) i duck a bit, start the face tracking, then straighten up in the seat and thus try to emulate the elevated view. It's the only way to actually see the nose a bit.

[Callsign JoNay]

On 7/16/2021 at 2:11 PM, captain_dalan said:

Every time i start DCS and i plan to fly the F-14 (99% of the time really) i duck a bit, start the face tracking, then straighten up in the seat and thus try to emulate the elevated view. It's the only way to actually see the nose a bit.

 

That's funny, I do the opposite and lower myself before every flight otherwise I feel like I'm staring at a canopy bow. There is a seat elevation function by the way. Not sure if there's a switch in the cockpit too, but you can keymap the function.

[Gunslinger22]

1 hour ago, Callsign JoNay said:

 

That's funny, I do the opposite and lower myself before every flight otherwise I feel like I'm staring at a canopy bow. There is a seat elevation function by the way. Not sure if there's a switch in the cockpit too, but you can keymap the function.

I assume you're not playing in VR then? Seems the F-14 cockpit is a great example of where VR is far more intuitive compared to a monitor. As I find in VR you have amazing visibility and the jail bars have never obscured my view, whereas in 2D they're very obstructive and you see many people complain about one of the Tomcats strengths.  

[captain_dalan]

14 hours ago, Gunslinger22 said:

I assume you're not playing in VR then? Seems the F-14 cockpit is a great example of where VR is far more intuitive compared to a monitor. As I find in VR you have amazing visibility and the jail bars have never obscured my view, whereas in 2D they're very obstructive and you see many people complain about one of the Tomcats strengths.  

Confirmed. Last yeah i had the pleasure of borrowing a VR unit for a few months and the experience is vastly different then on a screen.

16 hours ago, Callsign JoNay said:

 

That's funny, I do the opposite and lower myself before every flight otherwise I feel like I'm staring at a canopy bow. There is a seat elevation function by the way. Not sure if there's a switch in the cockpit too, but you can keymap the function.

This is the view angle i usually go for, just a bit more "zoomed in". The default just feels wrong. At least from what i've seen on photos and 360 panoramas from inside the plane. Never had the pleasure of sitting in the real thing.

[Callsign JoNay]

18 hours ago, Gunslinger22 said:

I assume you're not playing in VR then? Seems the F-14 cockpit is a great example of where VR is far more intuitive compared to a monitor. As I find in VR you have amazing visibility and the jail bars have never obscured my view, whereas in 2D they're very obstructive and you see many people complain about one of the Tomcats strengths.  

 

Yessir, I still use Track-IR. Interesting insights about VR...

[RustBelt]

On 7/18/2021 at 5:05 PM, Callsign JoNay said:

 

Yessir, I still use Track-IR. Interesting insights about VR...

It's crazy how much DCS messes up sight lines in 2D. It flattens everything to a perspective projection like a Telephoto lens that's then zoomed out to appear as a wide angle. 

It's especially noticeable in the Tomcat due to how many layer planes the instrument panel has. 

[draconus]

7 hours ago, RustBelt said:

It's crazy how much DCS messes up sight lines in 2D.

Like every 3D graphic on a monitor. It's only messed up because it's a one point of view renedering, like you would see with one eye only and with no depth of field/focus changes.

Maybe in the future... with eye tracking for changing focus the images for both eyes would get blended together on a monitor...

[Hiob]

On 6/18/2021 at 8:55 PM, IronMike said:

 

Yes there is, what you are looking for is to move the head position back. Unfortunately it is not just as setting your FOV in other sims, so you cant use an FOV calculator with it or similar. right ctrl + right shift and the numpad keys move the head around. However, I dont think you can lock this as your default position, so you need to do it every time you spawn. Not sure if you can edit a file to set a certain position as your default, that is something you have to ask ED, as these head movement inputs are basically the same in all aircraft.

 

What would be worth maybe, is defining a custom snapview with the head position you prefer, and then it should be a matter of pressing one button each time you spawn.

 

You can set any head position in all 6 degrees of freedom as default in any cockpit.

You need to fiddle with the two .luas for that - here you find details:

 

TL:DR-Version:

 

You need the

saved games\DCS\config\view\server.lua for the maximum fov and degrees of freedom settings and the

saved games\DCS\config\view\snapview.lua for the head position in each cockpit. You need to work on the "default view"

 

Edited July 21, 2021 by Hiob

[Cobra847]

This thread is bringing back some PTSD with nudging the default viewpoint around for ages trying to find the perfect location before release 

[captain_dalan]

22 hours ago, RustBelt said:

It's crazy how much DCS messes up sight lines in 2D. It flattens everything to a perspective projection like a Telephoto lens that's then zoomed out to appear as a wide angle. 

It's especially noticeable in the Tomcat due to how many layer planes the instrument panel has. 

I used a Reshade filter, that added a pseudo-fisheye effect for a while. It moved the canopy rails to the periphery and "distorted" the m properly when looking at some angles, so they take up less of the screen. Until you look right at them that is. It helped with forward looking though. The limited benefits went away when DCS switched to the new lighting system, and the FPS drop as a result of me using the filter, started to outweigh its usefulness.  

[punk]

Having sat in the Santa Rosa Cat, to me the biggest difference is we are too low in the cockpit. You can see down the entire nose in the real one. The visibility over the nose was amazing. If they can ever work that out you will be blown away.

 

Salute

[Gunslinger22]

46 minutes ago, punk said:

Having sat in the Santa Rosa Cat, to me the biggest difference is we are too low in the cockpit. You can see down the entire nose in the real one. The visibility over the nose was amazing. If they can ever work that out you will be blown away.

 

Salute

  I can’t stress this enough, something VR users are able to take full benefit of! I do sympathise to the issues faced on 2D, but can’t really see any better way than how HB have already implemented it. 

[RustBelt]

On 7/21/2021 at 3:38 AM, draconus said:

Like every 3D graphic on a monitor. It's only messed up because it's a one point of view renedering, like you would see with one eye only and with no depth of field/focus changes.

Maybe in the future... with eye tracking for changing focus the images for both eyes would get blended together on a monitor...

Depends on the choice of how you simulate the "CAMERA" Infinite DoF with wide view angle makes things extra weird.

20 hours ago, punk said:

Having sat in the Santa Rosa Cat, to me the biggest difference is we are too low in the cockpit. You can see down the entire nose in the real one. The visibility over the nose was amazing. If they can ever work that out you will be blown away.

 

Salute

Keep in mind museums typically have the seat all the way up, higher than an adult might comfortably fit with a helmet on and the canopy closed. 

[GunSlingerAUS]

On 7/21/2021 at 10:39 PM, Cobra847 said:

This thread is bringing back some PTSD with nudging the default viewpoint around for ages trying to find the perfect location before release 

 

Take a look at the Hornet and Falcon to see what, I think, is a better position. Currently we can't even see our altimeter without zooming out, and thus making bogies look smaller.