need evidence Clean G-Limit Too Low?

[wilbur81]

Maybe this is perfectly accurate/realistic, but I guess I'm a bit surprised that a clean Lot 20 Hornet with no pylons and 85% fuel capacity is not 7.5 G capable?

 

[GGTharos]

I don't have the NATOPS handy but that could be entirely possible.  The g-limit is generically stated at a specific gross weight.

[wilbur81]

You can get the FCS page to indicate 7.5 G available with 70% internal fuel (and no higher) and clean config as above, but I struggled to get to 7.5 in the track included with a max performance, descending break turn. But of course you may be right.

7.4 Gs

Edited June 19, 2021 by wilbur81

[GGTharos]

Ok, but that would be a separate issue - scheduled available g vs the ability to reach that g.   One is affected by gross GW, the other one may be getting limited a little too aggressively.

[wilbur81]

indeed

[BIGNEWY]

I will ask the team, but will need evidence for any change if it is incorrect.

 

thanks

[wilbur81]

7 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

I will ask the team, but will need evidence for any change if it is incorrect.

 

thanks

Cool. Thanks, BN. 

[GGTharos]

32 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

I will ask the team, but will need evidence for any change if it is incorrect.

 

thanks

 

@BIGNEWY please ask the team to talk to SMEs about this, we don't have the sources to find any evidence, only a reasonable suspicion that something is not quite right.  Like literally just by a little.

Do you need a better specification of the problem?  Two are presented here:

 

1) The g-limit graph is something we would like to know if possible.  Gross Weight on one axis, G allowed on the other.

2) The real issue here: g-limiter may be a little too aggressive, as per the track - it should allow the pilot to reach the g-limit.  We obviously have no way of verifying this ourselves.

Edited June 18, 2021 by GGTharos

[wilbur81]

3 hours ago, GGTharos said:

 

@BIGNEWY please ask the team to talk to SMEs about this, we don't have the sources to find any evidence, only a reasonable suspicion that something is not quite right.  Like literally just by a little.

Do you need a better specification of the problem?  Two are presented here:

 

1) The g-limit graph is something we would like to know if possible.  Gross Weight on one axis, G allowed on the other.

2) The real issue here: g-limiter may be a little too aggressive, as per the track - it should allow the pilot to reach the g-limit.  We obviously have no way of verifying this ourselves.

 

Thanks, GG. That's a helpful post. The G-onset/peak-G in the Hornet reminds me a little bit of how the Viper currently is with achieving 9g... which the Devs have acknowledged they are looking at a fix for. Maybe the Hornet FCS/FM is suffering from the same type of thing?

Edited June 18, 2021 by wilbur81

[BarTzi]

4 hours ago, wilbur81 said:

Maybe this is perfectly accurate/realistic, but I guess I'm a bit surprised that a clean Lot 20 Hornet with no pylons and 85% fuel capacity is not 7.5 G capable?

 

Correct. Needs to be less than (or equal to) 32,357 lbs for 7.5G.

Edited June 19, 2021 by BarTzi

[wilbur81]

1 hour ago, BarTzi said:

Correct. Needs to be less than (or equal to) 32,357 lbs for 7.5G.

 

Interesting... what is your source? And is it for the LOT 20 Charlie? 

[Mo410]

4 hours ago, BarTzi said:

Correct. Needs to be less than (or equal to) 32,357 lbs for 7.5G.

 

Correct, and your Checklist page should tell you your gross weight.

[BarTzi]

5 hours ago, wilbur81 said:

Interesting... what is your source? And is it for the LOT 20 Charlie? 

NATOPS, and yes- this is for the legacy Hornet.

[wilbur81]

8 hours ago, Mo410 said:

Correct, and your Checklist page should tell you your gross weight.

Yeah, I used the page during some testing. Second question for you if you don't mind? Once the FCS has indicated you have 7.5g available and you're under that gross weight, should most 390/400 kt or higher + max stick deflection with rapid onset produce 7.5 'easily'? In other words, once the FCS has determined max g available for weight, should it be pretty easy for the pilot to achieve that G loading with aggressive max stick deflection?

[Mo410]

Not necessarily, not at 400 knots.  It will be bleeding quickly, and you may, depending on your technique, go below the airspeed required to achieve the maximum G.  Any rolling moment will reduce the G available as part of the limiter.  Start at a higher speed, 430 - 480 and you should be able to attain it within about a second and change.