henshao Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 1 hour ago, wilbur81 said: Without a true FLCS or FCS, I'm sure the Eagle driver has to make all those stores/over-g calc's in his head as well. yes and no I don't think the OWS accounts for every possible store configuration though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henshao Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 At what weight, speed, and g-load should an Eagle break, and what should the nature of the damage be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dundun92 Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 (edited) 13 hours ago, gortex said: now the Eagle is all by itself in not being susceptible to over g damage. Lol, it literally just got added this patch, have you like done any testing? (I will grant it was stealth patched, but still) Edited October 21, 2021 by dundun92 1 Eagle Enthusiast, Fresco Fan. Patiently waiting for the F-15E. Clicky F-15C when? HP Z400 Workstation Intel Xeon W3680 (i7-980X) OC'd to 4.0 GHz, EVGA GTX 1060 6GB SSC Gaming, 24 GB DDR3 RAM, 500GB Crucial MX500 SSD. Thrustmaster T16000M FCS HOTAS, DIY opentrack head-tracking. I upload DCS videos here https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0-7L3Z5nJ-QUX5M7Dh1pGg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henshao Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 51 minutes ago, dundun92 said: it was stealth patched please elaborate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dundun92 Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 30 minutes ago, henshao said: please elaborate It was added but not put in the patchnotes. Fairly common occurence in DCS Eagle Enthusiast, Fresco Fan. Patiently waiting for the F-15E. Clicky F-15C when? HP Z400 Workstation Intel Xeon W3680 (i7-980X) OC'd to 4.0 GHz, EVGA GTX 1060 6GB SSC Gaming, 24 GB DDR3 RAM, 500GB Crucial MX500 SSD. Thrustmaster T16000M FCS HOTAS, DIY opentrack head-tracking. I upload DCS videos here https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0-7L3Z5nJ-QUX5M7Dh1pGg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henshao Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 7 minutes ago, dundun92 said: It was added but not put in the patchnotes. Fairly common occurence in DCS Ok let me be more clear: Source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dundun92 Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 Just now, henshao said: Ok let me be more clear: Source? Boot the game and try it like I have ? I dont have a recording off hand 1 Eagle Enthusiast, Fresco Fan. Patiently waiting for the F-15E. Clicky F-15C when? HP Z400 Workstation Intel Xeon W3680 (i7-980X) OC'd to 4.0 GHz, EVGA GTX 1060 6GB SSC Gaming, 24 GB DDR3 RAM, 500GB Crucial MX500 SSD. Thrustmaster T16000M FCS HOTAS, DIY opentrack head-tracking. I upload DCS videos here https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0-7L3Z5nJ-QUX5M7Dh1pGg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draconus Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 5 hours ago, dundun92 said: Lol, it literally just got added this patch, have you like done any testing? (I will grant it was stealth patched, but still) Wow, it really is implemented - Eagle is loosing the wings now! 1 Win10 i7-10700KF 32GB RTX3060 Rift S T16000M TWCS TFRP FC3 F-14A/B F-15E CA SC NTTR PG Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cab Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 Does anyone know the AOA limit for the F-15 in RL? In degrees, not units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 AoA limit for what exactly? Normally up to ~25, but there are records of it doing 40+. It depends on what you're doing. 1 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cab Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 The operational limit, I assume. Is there a published limit in the dash-1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 Just a warning that after 35CPUs (or less, depending on payload), longitudinal stability gets funky. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cab Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 7 hours ago, GGTharos said: Just a warning that after 35CPUs (or less, depending on payload), longitudinal stability gets funky. Okay, thanks. No way to convert those to degrees, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draconus Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 10 minutes ago, Cab said: Okay, thanks. No way to convert those to degrees, right? Idk what CPU means here but the conversion for AOA to units in the Eagle is AoA[Units] = 0.7728*AoA[Degrees] + 12.22. Win10 i7-10700KF 32GB RTX3060 Rift S T16000M TWCS TFRP FC3 F-14A/B F-15E CA SC NTTR PG Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cab Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 11 minutes ago, draconus said: Idk what CPU means here but the conversion for AOA to units in the Eagle is AoA[Units] = 0.7728*AoA[Degrees] + 12.22. Assuming CPUs are units, 35 units calculates to 39 degrees. I had no idea the F-15 could do such high AOA with it's hard wing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 29 degrees (I assume that was a typo) and the highest spike I've read about was 54 CPUs or about 54deg in this case oddly enough. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henshao Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 27 minutes ago, Cab said: Assuming CPUs are units, 35 units calculates to 39 degrees. I had no idea the F-15 could do such high AOA with it's hard wing. F-15 has a lot of subtle tricks up its sleeve. The wing is conically cambered, that is to say it reaps some of the benefit of a leading-edge slat design due to its curved shape: The F-15's nodding intakes not only function somewhat like canards, adding or dumping lift ahead of the CG under some circumstances, but IIRC they also function somewhat as a LERX as well, in addition to their primary function of providing unrivaled pressure recovery to the engines at high and low AoA Quote https://history.nasa.gov/SP-468/ch11-6.htm The wing planform of the F-15, shown in figure 11.36, suggests a modified cropped delta shape with a leading-edge sweepback angle of 45°. Ailerons and a simple high-lift flap are located on the trailing edge. No leading-edge maneuvering flaps are utilized, although such flaps were extensively analyzed in the design of the wing. This complication was avoided, however, by the combination of low wing loading and fixed leading-edge camber that varies with spanwise position along the wing. Airfoil thickness ratios vary from 6 percent at the root to 3 percent at the tip. The F-15 can sustain some pretty ridiculous AoA. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cab Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 25 minutes ago, GGTharos said: 29 degrees (I assume that was a typo) and the highest spike I've read about was 54 CPUs or about 54deg in this case oddly enough. No, not a typo but a mistake. I inserted the units into the formula where it should be degrees. Math is hard, but luckily for me I have a lot more experience being wrong than being right. Incidentally, the reason I asked is I see F-15 routinely exceeding 30 degrees AOA in Tacview and had wondered about the accuracy of that. (Both the flight model and Tacview) 33 minutes ago, henshao said: F-15 has a lot of subtle tricks up its sleeve. The wing is conically cambered, that is to say it reaps some of the benefit of a leading-edge slat design due to its curved shape: Yes. I had originally typed "simple wing" but changed it to "hard wing" because I know the design itself is far from "simple". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 Yeah my calc prof said 'never do arithmetic in public, it could be embarassing' ... do math instead, no one will be able to tell Above 35CPUs (20-25 in some cases) the aircraft becomes very sensitive to yaw, which isn't really well represented in DCS. Very high AoA excursions (like the 54 I mentioned) can then result in problems, in this case it was an accident due to a deformed nose cone, causing the aircraft to spin out because the moment arm is huge while stability is reduced. So you can fly very high AoAs but you have to finesse it a lot. 1 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmptohocah Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 2 hours ago, GGTharos said: 29 degrees (I assume that was a typo) and the highest spike I've read about was 54 CPUs or about 54deg in this case oddly enough. It can do 54deg. without stalling? Did I get that right? 2 Cmptohocah=CMPTOHOCAH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 5 minutes ago, Cmptohocah said: It can do 54deg. without stalling? Did I get that right? 54 deg was a spike in a defensive maneuver. The book which describes the exact capabilities is nowhere to be found for the public unfortunately. In other words I couldn't tell you that you can 'walk' the eagle at 54, and you probably can't. Also as I said, that spike led to a spin due to asymmetric airflow over the nose cone combined with lack of longitudinal stability due to the high AoA (vertical stabs are washed out, low airflow, etc). [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmptohocah Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 8 minutes ago, GGTharos said: 54 deg was a spike in a defensive maneuver. The book which describes the exact capabilities is nowhere to be found for the public unfortunately. In other words I couldn't tell you that you can 'walk' the eagle at 54, and you probably can't. Also as I said, that spike led to a spin due to asymmetric airflow over the nose cone combined with lack of longitudinal stability due to the high AoA (vertical stabs are washed out, low airflow, etc). Doesn't really matter how much it went as long as the wing is stalled. I mean, for example: if the max AoA is 30, it doesn't matter if the wing is at 31 deg or 131 deg, 'cause it's not producing any lift. 2 Cmptohocah=CMPTOHOCAH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 Couldn't tell you, all I can tell you is that this sort of maneuver is practiced and no one wants to stall so ... anyway, like I said the actual details exist but not in any document we can access. Things like exact effect s of rudder - like say how fast cna you turn with just the rudder, assuming you use aileroon to remain level, the wing's critical parameters etc. All that is not available to us. Maybe if someone feels like it they could find some sort of FCF record or something that goes into testing high AoA handling. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmptohocah Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 We could do a flight test and measure the AoA at stall speeds. For example: idle power level flight, at 35k lb should stall at around 119 knots IAS. Then we can take the measurement of the AoA and this would be the AoA limit. I don't have access to DCS at the moment, so I can't test it my self. 2 Cmptohocah=CMPTOHOCAH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exorcet Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 51 minutes ago, Cmptohocah said: Doesn't really matter how much it went as long as the wing is stalled. I mean, for example: if the max AoA is 30, it doesn't matter if the wing is at 31 deg or 131 deg, 'cause it's not producing any lift. A stalled wing still produces lift, just less than the peak lift, and more drag. Anyway the peak recorded AoA isn't about stall. The plane can exceed critical AoA if it's stable enough, like the Su-27 performing the Cobra. Awaiting: DCS F-15C Win 10 i5-9600KF 4.6 GHz 64 GB RAM RTX2080Ti 11GB -- Win 7 64 i5-6600K 3.6 GHz 32 GB RAM GTX970 4GB -- A-10C, F-5E, Su-27, F-15C, F-14B, F-16C missions in User Files Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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