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Hind petrovich atgm problems.


Speedy4GT

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I could possibly be doing something wrong but i do not think i am in this case.

 

The problem im currently having is that sometimes petrovich just will not give me any targets to select. I can get a track file or record for this at a later date but currently im about to go to bed while typing this.

Setting:
I spawn in on the 4YA PvE Caucasus server in the Hind. On this server usually you start hot (which i did) so basically everything is ready. I load the aircraft with 4 ATGMS and press CRTL + W to tell petro to starting getting the weapons systems ready. I get the message as i take of saying theyre ready. 

 

I fly out to my targets. We are about 9nm out from the targets and i open the petro menu and tell him to look in the targets area to which i see the indicator move to the location (the indicator that is also used as CCIP pipper when using rockets/30mm) after the indicator moves to the location it doesn't give me the usual list of targets to choose from and to make it clear these are 100% enemy targets. I've had this happen twice so far both times on the Caucasus map and both times in multiplayer. I respawned multiple times and did my normal procedure as i listed above and went back to the exact same area to try again against the targets and out of 3 tries not once did the menu work. After this i decided to spawn in a different location and attack a different location, this time i was attacking an airbase and menu worked and petro started to allow me to select targets as normal.  

 

I would also like to specify that i was not staying 9nm away from the targets, i was constantly moving towards them and giving multiple instructions to petro to find targets every mile that i closed in on the targets and even got within their firing range on their 50.cals with no response from petro finding targets. 


Edited by Speedy4GT
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38 minutes ago, dorianR666 said:

9nm is a lot.

Petro looks at the point you designate and will give you the list of targets once you get close enough.

Sorry i should have specified. I got a lot closer than 9nm. 9nm was when i started the targeting. I giving him new instructions frequently, to the point where i was close enough to the target that they employ their 50.cals on me.

10 minutes ago, S. Low said:

At only 10x zoom I'm not positive a human player could pick out targets at 9nm, so the AI not seeing them seems appropriate. I think those ATGMs have roughly a 4nm range so try to get closer first. 

Like with what i replied to the other guy i did in fact get a lot closer i should have specified my apologies.


Edited by Speedy4GT
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4 hours ago, Speedy4GT said:

I could possibly be doing something wrong but i do not think i am in this case.

 

The problem im currently having is that sometimes petrovich just will not give me any targets to select. I can get a track file or record for this at a later date but currently im about to go to bed while typing this.

Setting:
I spawn in on the 4YA PvE Caucasus server in the Hind. On this server usually you start hot (which i did) so basically everything is ready. I load the aircraft with 4 ATGMS and press CRTL + W to tell petro to starting getting the weapons systems ready. I get the message as i take of saying theyre ready. 

 

I fly out to my targets. We are about 9nm out from the targets and i open the petro menu and tell him to look in the targets area to which i see the indicator move to the location (the indicator that is also used as CCIP pipper when using rockets/30mm) after the indicator moves to the location it doesn't give me the usual list of targets to choose from and to make it clear these are 100% enemy targets. I've had this happen twice so far both times on the Caucasus map and both times in multiplayer. I respawned multiple times and did my normal procedure as i listed above and went back to the exact same area to try again against the targets and out of 3 tries not once did the menu work. After this i decided to spawn in a different location and attack a different location, this time i was attacking an airbase and menu worked and petro started to allow me to select targets as normal.  

 

I would also like to specify that i was not staying 9nm away from the targets, i was constantly moving towards them and giving multiple instructions to petro to find targets every mile that i closed in on the targets and even got within their firing range on their 50.cals with no response from petro finding targets. 

 

Yeah i find this happens a lot on some multiplayer servers like blue flag 80s. At least for me. Get within 2km starting at 5km and petrovich won't lock anything up. And no menu for targets

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Will petrovich lock up on open spaces if ordered . Maybe try as a test . Had similar problems on multiplayer . Where petrovich would find target but the crosshairs would not lock onto that target . 

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In the Ed manual I believe it talks about this. What might be happening is Pete is locking the enemy closest to where you told him to search because either the other enemies aren’t actually close enough to be put in the list, or they are close enough but Pete thinks they aren’t because he’s zoomed way in or something.

 

Check the top right of screen. I was getting messages like “locked infantry” or “locked armored” when I would ask him to search

 

 

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9 hours ago, Speedy4GT said:

I could possibly be doing something wrong but i do not think i am in this case.

 

The problem im currently having is that sometimes petrovich just will not give me any targets to select. I can get a track file or record for this at a later date but currently im about to go to bed while typing this.

Setting:
I spawn in on the 4YA PvE Caucasus server in the Hind. On this server usually you start hot (which i did) so basically everything is ready. I load the aircraft with 4 ATGMS and press CRTL + W to tell petro to starting getting the weapons systems ready. I get the message as i take of saying theyre ready. 

 

I fly out to my targets. We are about 9nm out from the targets and i open the petro menu and tell him to look in the targets area to which i see the indicator move to the location (the indicator that is also used as CCIP pipper when using rockets/30mm) after the indicator moves to the location it doesn't give me the usual list of targets to choose from and to make it clear these are 100% enemy targets. I've had this happen twice so far both times on the Caucasus map and both times in multiplayer. I respawned multiple times and did my normal procedure as i listed above and went back to the exact same area to try again against the targets and out of 3 tries not once did the menu work. After this i decided to spawn in a different location and attack a different location, this time i was attacking an airbase and menu worked and petro started to allow me to select targets as normal.  

 

I would also like to specify that i was not staying 9nm away from the targets, i was constantly moving towards them and giving multiple instructions to petro to find targets every mile that i closed in on the targets and even got within their firing range on their 50.cals with no response from petro finding targets. 

 

 

Are you sure Petro had a good LOS? No obstructive buildings or terrain? (I think/assume that just like all other AI, his LOS is not affected by trees)

 

I also played on the 4YA servers (PG and Caucasus) and Petrovich worked well for me. I have to admit that I sometimes had to spam a little with the search for targets "AI menu up" command, but usually because I didn't point close enough to the targets.

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Yes I had a similar issue where I was able to get one or two shots of atgm off but after that petro was not able to find targets instead wherever I point with the tracker he looks exactly at that spot but doesn't search himself even within 5km eg if I point by 10 feet next to a tank he will look exactly at the spot I pointed and not see the tank right next to it all within 3km

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  • 2 months later...

Same issue still as Speedy4GT... closer to be shoot and the AI cant find targets or even find and place the crosshair in the wrong place ... (basically not aiming correctly) ... so is not a question of distance to target but a bug ...I could shoot 2 targets ok,later petrovich gets some vodkas in the midle and cant find them anymore ..

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  • 1 month later...

I have the same issue with Petrovic being blind, cannot find targets even though i can see them myself very obviously within range parameters, it is really random, sometimes he sees them if i am dangerously high, but if i am below 500meters i have serious problems, lately i could not lock anything so i made a test flew on purpose to commit suicide on it and he couldnt see the target  until the last moment as i crashed into it online, his aiming cross on the hud was always right on the target but he refused to see it.  Right now it means i cannot fly the Hind online until i figure out if it is my mistake ( maybe i damaged the gyros? but i made sure i didnt so not sure)  or if something needs to be adjusted by the devs, offline it seems to work ok for the most part.


Edited by Fynek
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When I tried over the weekend, I found that Petro wouldn’t lock up a static, eg a static tank.  However, he was fine locking up a normal tank

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On 10/27/2021 at 10:33 PM, Fynek said:

I have the same issue with Petrovic being blind, cannot find targets even though i can see them myself very obviously within range parameters, it is really random, sometimes he sees them if i am dangerously high, but if i am below 500meters i have serious problems, lately i could not lock anything so i made a test flew on purpose to commit suicide on it and he couldnt see the target  until the last moment as i crashed into it online, his aiming cross on the hud was always right on the target but he refused to see it.  Right now it means i cannot fly the Hind online until i figure out if it is my mistake ( maybe i damaged the gyros? but i made sure i didnt so not sure)  or if something needs to be adjusted by the devs, offline it seems to work ok for the most part.

 

Would be worth noting the visibility conditions (particular time of day, but maybe weather plays a part as well?) as this still needs tuning. Usually if I set a mission right after dawn Petrovich won't be able to see anything even though they're perfectly visible to me, but set it an hour or two later and he's fine.

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34 minutes ago, nomdeplume said:

Would be worth noting the visibility conditions (particular time of day, but maybe weather plays a part as well?) as this still needs tuning. Usually if I set a mission right after dawn Petrovich won't be able to see anything even though they're perfectly visible to me, but set it an hour or two later and he's fine.

I haven't tried with Pet but there's definitely a time of day when it's already bright where infantry and vehicles without night optics don't fire. Then a few minutes later the game deems it day and they can shoot.

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11 hours ago, nomdeplume said:

Would be worth noting the visibility conditions (particular time of day, but maybe weather plays a part as well?) as this still needs tuning. Usually if I set a mission right after dawn Petrovich won't be able to see anything even though they're perfectly visible to me, but set it an hour or two later and he's fine.

Indeed you are right, it is very likely that it is linked to this (server was probably in late afternoon, i dont remember exactly) and perhaps also due to lag on that particular server i was on because lately i gave it another try and i didn't have this issue


Edited by Fynek
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I still have a problem with Petrovich HITTING targets after he eventually finds them. 

Saw in the changelog to try disabling pitch altitude, and this does help a little.

Also tried holding trim down which instantly zeroes all AP channels.

Even starting the attack run from 7-8km out, trimming the helicopter and choosing an altitude such that the reticle is centered and I am totally hands-off produces misses, almost always over the top.

Most misses are going to be high, over the top but some do go short. I reported this before, and for SURE, not everyone has this issue.

This may to some extent also be target-specific. With T-55's, he has a very high miss rate even with this tactic. With T-72's less so. I did get a 7/8 once.

If this is hitting you, you'll be lucky to kill four T-55's with eight SHTURMs or ATAKAs. Tried all three flavors. 

It's not hamfist flying either. Have MC'ed with multiple pilots for comparison and "steadiness gut check," and with a front seater reliably 8/8.

When one of them hits on the first try, it's kind of like an exciting surprise. 

 

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On 11/8/2021 at 7:59 AM, fargo007 said:

I still have a problem with Petrovich HITTING targets after he eventually finds them. 

Saw in the changelog to try disabling pitch altitude, and this does help a little.

Also tried holding trim down which instantly zeroes all AP channels.

Even starting the attack run from 7-8km out, trimming the helicopter and choosing an altitude such that the reticle is centered and I am totally hands-off produces misses, almost always over the top.

Most misses are going to be high, over the top but some do go short. I reported this before, and for SURE, not everyone has this issue.

This may to some extent also be target-specific. With T-55's, he has a very high miss rate even with this tactic. With T-72's less so. I did get a 7/8 once.

If this is hitting you, you'll be lucky to kill four T-55's with eight SHTURMs or ATAKAs. Tried all three flavors. 

It's not hamfist flying either. Have MC'ed with multiple pilots for comparison and "steadiness gut check," and with a front seater reliably 8/8.

When one of them hits on the first try, it's kind of like an exciting surprise. 

I usually get much better success 6-7 usually and 8 out of 8 is not uncommon. and if it misses 90% of the time it's my fault. Vertical Wobbles are bad, any course adjustments are bad, especially late in the missile flight. The best option is to maintain a steady course once the missile is 25%-50% of the way to target. You don't need to keep the target in the center of the reticle just keep your movement minimal, even if you find your offset slightly. It will be fine long as long as your course is buttery smooth. If going for a moving target offset with lead on the targets direction will help Petrovich. Remember Pertrovich can move the sight beyond the boundaries that you can see his crosshairs in your asp sight. Ocne that missile is fired worry only about stability, less so on being directly pointed on target.

 


Edited by CrazyGman
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6 hours ago, CrazyGman said:

I usually get much better success 6-7 usually and 8 out of 8 is not uncommon. and if it misses 90% of the time it's my fault. Vertical Wobbles are bad, any course adjustments are bad, especially late in the missile flight. The best option is to maintain a steady course once the missile is 25%-50% of the way to target. You don't need to keep the target in the center of the reticle just keep your movement minimal, even if you find your offset slightly. It will be fine long as long as your course is buttery smooth. If going for a moving target offset with lead on the targets direction will help Petrovich. Remember Pertrovich can move the sight beyond the boundaries that you can see his crosshairs in your asp sight. Ocne that missile is fired worry only about stability, less so on being directly pointed on target.

 

 

Been through all that.  Even when I trim the helicopter out so it is absolutely frozen dead steady and in a straight line with the reticle centered, (no control inputs made, nor required) the misses still occur and so does the 4/8 or maybe 5/8 hit rate.

It's reading artifact movement from somewhere, and imparting that into the control logic of petrovich. 

Virtually ALL of the misses are over the top.  These tanks needed to be engage three, and four times each to eventually hit them. You can see the explosion marks on the ground, behind them.

This is highly inconsistent. Sometimes it happens over and over again, other times it does not.

 

 

 

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Edited by fargo007

 

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I can relate an almost identical experience with Petrovich: sometimes he is a sharpshooter, getting nothing but hits, then other times he just can't seem to hit at all, period. When he does miss, it is always over the target: I've yet to see him hit to the side or in front of a target. Doesn't matter how steady or unsteady I am with the aircraft; sometimes I've done hover fire and long range, thinking "no way will this hit" and he scores a perfect hit, then other times we're steady as a rock, perfectly centered on a stationary target in forward and the missile sails right overhead -- and then the subsequent 3 runs he repeats the exact same pattern of misses. I would think that if he were really missing, I'd see more than just misses overhead and instead would see missiles drift to the sides and in front.

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I'm not sure it's all Petro's fault. Long time ago I have seen someone mentioning that what we see as target position is different from what game and game controled elements see due to terrain mesh. We know that, at initial release, Petrovich would consistently miss targets on slope. What is more puzzling to me is why some people have problems almost all the time and some people have it rarely or almost no problems whatsoever.

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It does seem that it could follow certain targets or possibly certain locations. With targets needed to be shot at 3,4 times to get a hit, it's hard to rule this out....

But as admiki says, since it only affects some, and as NeedzWD40 points out the misses are exclusively linear, it's clear that there's a detection of control inputs in the equation - likely "phantom" inputs that aren't actually there. And those are factored in (incorrectly) as "error" and are being imparted into the aiming process.

I hope it gets identified, and fixed. 🍻

 

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