maxsin72 Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 (edited) 13 hours ago, lunaticfringe said: How dare you invoke facts into such a conversation. The meaning is perhaps HB need more FM specialists, do you understand now? Or do you need i paint you the concept? Edited August 2, 2022 by maxsin72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DD_Fenrir Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 Don't you just love it when people stop by unsolicited to tell you how you should be doing your job? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spurts Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 the team with the most advanced (only VG) and intricate FM needs more FM people.... for cleanup work.... Yeah no. I am happy with the FM and any accuracy improvements will be welcome whenever they arrive. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustBelt Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 7 hours ago, Katj said: Yeah, but they are also working on the Eurofighter and Phantom. I don't want to speculate how they divide their time, but not all is spent on the Tomcat. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for an update when they have been silent on this topic for many months. If they tell us they haven't gotten around to it, fine, then we know. No It’s not unreasonable to expect some kind of update. Most of us here have bought in to an in development product and as always as soon as the product is in EA, all the exciting self promoting development updates die off. Which also goes back to time available. With 2 EA and 2+1 in development projects, the people who would make those “Lookie what we’re doing” posts are now spending most of their time explaining and re-explaining why the tank pylons won’t come off or why they really wish people would lay off about Glove Vanes. Only so many hours in a day. And most teams don’t have a dedicated hype pusher, unlike Razbam…. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunaticfringe Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 4 hours ago, maxsin72 said: The meaning is perhaps HB need more FM specialists, do you understand now? Or do you need i paint you the concept? Yeah- what they need are another two cooks to join the first to stand over the lone FM pot, getting in each others way and stumbling over ingredients because you're impatient. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxsin72 Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, lunaticfringe said: Yeah- what they need are another two cooks to join the first to stand over the lone FM pot, getting in each others way and stumbling over ingredients because you're impatient. I'm, we are waiting for years, 1 year to fix the first big FM update who totally tanked the F14 (HB went on for many months saying the FM almost perfect but, at the end, they changed it). Almost another year has been passed waiting for the fix of the last update. I'm not impatient, dude, i'm becoming old I like very much BFM but, with the actual FM, F14 is still tanked. HB is developing many beautiful projects, so i think it's normal they need more specialists. Edited August 2, 2022 by maxsin72 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt_Jaeger Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 Damn, and I still solely fly that module and enjoy it. That has to end and I guess I show myself to the door for being such a ignorant. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain_dalan Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, Lt_Jaeger said: Damn, and I still solely fly that module and enjoy it. That has to end and I guess I show myself to the door for being such a ignorant. Hey i enjoy it too and it's still the plane i spend more then 90% of my DCS time in, but let's be real, the FM hasn't been touched in a long time. If you only do dogfights, this may not concern you, nor you may notice anything wrong with it, but transonic and above? It's far from perfect. In fact, it's far from even being close. 18 hours ago, Katj said: Yeah, but they are also working on the Eurofighter and Phantom. I don't want to speculate how they divide their time, but not all is spent on the Tomcat. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for an update when they have been silent on this topic for many months. If they tell us they haven't gotten around to it, fine, then we know. This. Gone are the times of this being time sharing between the VIggen and the Tomcat. So the question is legitimate. How high a priority the FM has? Edited August 3, 2022 by captain_dalan 5 Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonoda Umi Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 10 hours ago, captain_dalan said: Hey i enjoy it too and it's still the plane i spend more then 90% of my DCS time in, but let's be real, the FM hasn't been touched in a long time. If you only do dogfights, this may not concern you, nor you may notice anything wrong with it, but transonic and above? It's far from perfect. In fact, it's far from even being close. This. Gone are the times of this being time sharing between the VIggen and the Tomcat. So the question is legitimate. How high a priority the FM has? The flight characteristics of transonic and supersonic are far from the reality +1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonoda Umi Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 Time of acceleration, top mach numbers, are not match the F-14 pilots said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katj Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 Time of acceleration, top mach numbers, are not match the F-14 pilots said.I don't understand what you're saying. Could you phrase it more clearly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain_dalan Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 1 hour ago, Бойовий Сокіл said: And it's almost like we have clear evidence from natops perf. charts to show it. Indeed. Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draconus Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 2 hours ago, Sonoda Umi said: Time of acceleration, top mach numbers, are not match the F-14 pilots said. Sea stories can't be the source for exact performance modeling. Win10 i7-10700KF 32GB RTX3060 Rift S T16000M HOTAS FC3, F-14A/B, F-15E CA SC NTTR, PG, Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunaticfringe Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 1 hour ago, captain_dalan said: Indeed. And we also know the fundamental root cause of that issue, too. But I don't see anybody barking up that tree. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronMike Posted August 3, 2022 Author Share Posted August 3, 2022 We'd kindly like to ask you all for a bit more patience on the matter as we're trying to resolve underlying issues that will allow us to close this chapter on FM development. Thank you ever so kindly! 1 Heatblur Simulations Please feel free to contact me anytime, either via PM here, on the forums, or via email through the contact form on our homepage. http://www.heatblur.com/ https://www.facebook.com/heatblur/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spurts Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 No problem @IronMike. Take whatever time you guys need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronMike Posted August 3, 2022 Author Share Posted August 3, 2022 I know you guys are growing impatient, and so are we tbh. We, too, want to get it done and out of the way, I can assure you of that. Heatblur Simulations Please feel free to contact me anytime, either via PM here, on the forums, or via email through the contact form on our homepage. http://www.heatblur.com/ https://www.facebook.com/heatblur/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustBelt Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 7 hours ago, Sonoda Umi said: The flight characteristics of transonic and supersonic are far from the reality +1 That has as much to do with ED’s model of the atmosphere as it does Heatblur. And since ED has a lot of “we’re gunna” plans out there it’s not like Heatblur can do much since an ED change can mean scrapping everything to go back to square one. Agile development is a nightmare that never ends. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustBelt Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 (edited) It’s fine? Is it still 65 degrees F at 30,000 feet? Did they finally model compressibility factors, or is that still part of the flight model? They ever get the tropopause working? How about inversion layers? Thermals? Edited August 4, 2022 by RustBelt 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxsin72 Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 (edited) Really interesting video about F14, corner speed 425 knots, 8g with wings stuck at 20 degrees, and much much more https://youtu.be/YJW5As4Os4U?t=2067 Edited August 5, 2022 by maxsin72 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sLYFa Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 The atmospheric modelling is fine in DCS, at least for what it needs. The inversion layer is modelled and you get the correct temperature at altitude. Not sure what compressibility factors are needed for since in DCS we are far away from the pressures where the difference between real and ideal gas becomes relevant. Thermals would surely be nice to have but are irrelevant to this discussion. This whole baseless criticism of DCS's inner workings is not helpful to the discussion. It would be nice if people refrained from that and sticked to flight testing instead of speculation on what ED does wrong. 2 i5-8600k @4.9Ghz, 2080ti , 32GB@2666Mhz, 512GB SSD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustBelt Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 Transonic and supersonic flight is all about compressibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sLYFa Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 (edited) Yes and all you need to model that is the local speed of sound which the atmosphere model provides. The compressibility factor becomes important at high pressures beyond 10bar or very low temperatures. Unless somebody does a reentry vehicle, its not needed in DCS. Edited August 5, 2022 by sLYFa 1 i5-8600k @4.9Ghz, 2080ti , 32GB@2666Mhz, 512GB SSD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronMike Posted August 5, 2022 Author Share Posted August 5, 2022 Yes, please, everybody - ED is very helpful with the issues that cross over between us - but they, too, need to follow their own priority list - you can imagine they have to deal with many more issues than we have to. In principle, it is our responsibility to finish the FM polish, which steps need to be taken in the background is not really relevant. The remaining/ open issues with the F-14 are not lost on us, and the effort to resolve them all is continuing. Thank you for your very kind patience with us. 2 2 Heatblur Simulations Please feel free to contact me anytime, either via PM here, on the forums, or via email through the contact form on our homepage. http://www.heatblur.com/ https://www.facebook.com/heatblur/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxsin72 Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 2 hours ago, IronMike said: Yes, please, everybody - ED is very helpful with the issues that cross over between us - but they, too, need to follow their own priority list - you can imagine they have to deal with many more issues than we have to. In principle, it is our responsibility to finish the FM polish, which steps need to be taken in the background is not really relevant. The remaining/ open issues with the F-14 are not lost on us, and the effort to resolve them all is continuing. Thank you for your very kind patience with us. Thank you for your kind update. Is there an idea about the time it will be necessary to wait to see an update of FM? Thanks a lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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