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Stuttering in Syria (DCS 2.7.2)


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Hi everyone,

 

I am experiencing since the last update (2.7.2.7910.1) some pretty bad stuttering when flying on certain parts of Syria map. This wasn't happening with 2.7.1. although I had the same fps "dips" but without any stuttering (link here - and link here)

 

In particular I experience this issue when on the ground in Incirlik and flying in the near vicinity of the base. This is very evident on a custom mission I am running at the moment with some decent amount of static objs and AI units around. Funny thing is that before 2.7.2 there wasn't any stuttering (albeit with the same fps dips)

 

I tried the following today to isolate the issue but with no success:

 

- updated Nvidia drivers

- updated Windows 10 

- disabled Nvidia overlay

- disabled/enabled full screen mode in DCS (used also ALT+enter)

- reset all nvidia control panel settings to default

- disabled windows dynamic wallpaper slideshow 

- using custom windows pagefile as suggested by @Flappie

- disabling custom windows pagefile

- reducing preload radius from 90000 to 81000

 

I am getting good fps (all settings on max except SSAA which is off) around 70-80 on the ground, 110+ in the air however what's concerning is the GPU utilization which spikes from 80-90 down to 60 and then back to 80. This is synchronized with the stutters and it's reflected on the fps which goes from 70-80, down to 50 and then immediately back up to 70. This happens on all views (F1, F2, etc) even with the jet stationary on the apron with engines off (using the F-18 in this particular mission).

 

CPU utilization hovers around a steady 15-17% (all cores).

 

Once flying at some altitudes in other parts of Syria - no issues. 

Other maps - no issues.

 

My specs are in the signature.

 

Any thought or solutions to get rid of this annoyance? 

I can attach logs or tracks, just need to know exactly what's needed. 

 

Thanks 


Edited by Snakedoc
Cpu value

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A-10C | A-10C II | F/A-18C | F-16C | FC3 | PG | Syria | SC

Home made F-16C simulator
Forum Thread: DCS World forum - The Viper Project - Home Cockpits Instagram: 1583142 copia.jpg The Viper Project YouTube youtube-icon-512x512-874lspju.png The Viper Project - Youtube channel

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Hey Snakedoc. A friend told me about a similar issue today, but I haven't found a solution for him yet.

 

Start by using Windows Resource Monitor while playing DCS. Display the "Disks" tab and watch the files list closely when you're getting stuttering. Take screenshots and post them here.

Don't accept indie game testing requests from friends in Discord. Ever.

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thanks @Flappie!

 

is this what you're lookign for? 

 

in this section the fps dropped from about 70 to below 60 and gpu utilization from 90% to <70%

 

I took a video (this screenshot is from that), if it can help I can share it. The stutters are more of a micro-stutters but there are noticeable 

 

 

PS: I updated to 2.7.2.8165.2 and I had NVIDIA overlay on to capture the video but I don't think that it makes any effect on the stutter 

 

Untitled.png

ASUS ROG STRIX Z490 F-GAMING | i7-10700K | RTX3090 TUF OC | 32GB DDR4 3200Mhz | Windows 10 64bit | Acer Predator X34P | TrackIR 5 | TM Warthog | TM T.Flight Rudder Pedals

A-10C | A-10C II | F/A-18C | F-16C | FC3 | PG | Syria | SC

Home made F-16C simulator
Forum Thread: DCS World forum - The Viper Project - Home Cockpits Instagram: 1583142 copia.jpg The Viper Project YouTube youtube-icon-512x512-874lspju.png The Viper Project - Youtube channel

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Also, I tried disabling MSI Afterburner but the results are the same

 

I have a feeling that with today's mini patch the stutters are reduced but still noticeable, but I have to do more testing

ASUS ROG STRIX Z490 F-GAMING | i7-10700K | RTX3090 TUF OC | 32GB DDR4 3200Mhz | Windows 10 64bit | Acer Predator X34P | TrackIR 5 | TM Warthog | TM T.Flight Rudder Pedals

A-10C | A-10C II | F/A-18C | F-16C | FC3 | PG | Syria | SC

Home made F-16C simulator
Forum Thread: DCS World forum - The Viper Project - Home Cockpits Instagram: 1583142 copia.jpg The Viper Project YouTube youtube-icon-512x512-874lspju.png The Viper Project - Youtube channel

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What you are describing hints strongly to a cpu problem. 

Probably some background processes occupying it.

Check the resource monitor in the task manager while the game is running.

Sometimes after a windows update, the system will „clean up“ or move some stuff around in the background, which occupies cpu time.

"Muß ich denn jedes Mal, wenn ich sauge oder saugblase den Schlauchstecker in die Schlauchnut schieben?"

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Thanks Hiob, 

However if it would be a cpu issue wouldn't it happen on every map and flight? 

 

I am experiencing this only on this specific area of Syria Map, nothing anywhere else.

 

I played TEW 3.0 with the same latest OB and its butter smooth without any sort of stuttering.

 

I did check my cpu activity as you suggested but I didn't see anything unusual, also with the nvidia overlay it always hovers around 15-17% during all flights (all cores %)


Edited by Snakedoc

ASUS ROG STRIX Z490 F-GAMING | i7-10700K | RTX3090 TUF OC | 32GB DDR4 3200Mhz | Windows 10 64bit | Acer Predator X34P | TrackIR 5 | TM Warthog | TM T.Flight Rudder Pedals

A-10C | A-10C II | F/A-18C | F-16C | FC3 | PG | Syria | SC

Home made F-16C simulator
Forum Thread: DCS World forum - The Viper Project - Home Cockpits Instagram: 1583142 copia.jpg The Viper Project YouTube youtube-icon-512x512-874lspju.png The Viper Project - Youtube channel

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If this only happens over Syria, you should monitor the response times of the Syria map files loadings I see in your screenshot.

Reach for other columns to the right of the resource manager. You should find one called "response time". You're supposed to find very little numbers here, such as these:

 

image.png


Edited by Flappie

Don't accept indie game testing requests from friends in Discord. Ever.

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I see thanks! I'll have a look at that column tomorrow when I'll be doing more testing

 

thanks again!

ASUS ROG STRIX Z490 F-GAMING | i7-10700K | RTX3090 TUF OC | 32GB DDR4 3200Mhz | Windows 10 64bit | Acer Predator X34P | TrackIR 5 | TM Warthog | TM T.Flight Rudder Pedals

A-10C | A-10C II | F/A-18C | F-16C | FC3 | PG | Syria | SC

Home made F-16C simulator
Forum Thread: DCS World forum - The Viper Project - Home Cockpits Instagram: 1583142 copia.jpg The Viper Project YouTube youtube-icon-512x512-874lspju.png The Viper Project - Youtube channel

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Have you checked 'Additional Power Settings' are set to High/Extreme and not Balanced? 

AMD Ryzen 5 5600X; ASUS ROG Strix X570-F, Corsair Vengeance 64 GB (2x 32GB) 3600MHz; Seagate FireCuda 510 500GB M.2-2280 (OS); Samsung 860 EVO 2TB M.2-2280 (DCS); MSI GeForce RTX 3090 SUPRIM X 24GB OC GPU. TM Warthog Hotas; T.Flight Pedals; DelanClip/Trackhat.

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Reason I suggested the CPU as the cause is, that you stated that you GPU utilization is far below 99% in those circumstances (given that you don't cap the GPU for any reason by choice).

That usually means, that the CPU can't keep up to feed frames to the GPU. Reasons could be inside DCS (much AI work, a lot of units and so on) or outside (CPU being occupied by something)...or of course, as @Flappie suggested, something other IO related issue like drives.

 

Edit: I hope by "Nvidia overlay" you don't mean GeForce Experience? I won't recommend using this crap. If you want FPS and such as overlay go with Afterburner/Riva Statistics Server.

 

 


Edited by Hiob

"Muß ich denn jedes Mal, wenn ich sauge oder saugblase den Schlauchstecker in die Schlauchnut schieben?"

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For what it's worth... If I select f/a-18c -> instant action -> syria -> freeflight. At start I get ~60FPS which is good for my older hardware and close to the ground.

 

Following the lead Hornet inland, then entering A/A master mode I get MASSIVE FPS drops and stutter. Going back to NAV mode and it's back to normal. Repeatable every time I start that instant mission. Otherwise I'm getting 70+ FPS at altitude.

 

I'm on the latest 2.7.2 beta

 

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Edited by Noluck
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12 hours ago, Hiob said:

Reason I suggested the CPU as the cause is, that you stated that you GPU utilization is far below 99% in those circumstances (given that you don't cap the GPU for any reason by choice).

That usually means, that the CPU can't keep up to feed frames to the GPU. Reasons could be inside DCS (much AI work, a lot of units and so on) or outside (CPU being occupied by something)...or of course, as @Flappie suggested, something other IO related issue like drives.

 

Edit: I hope by "Nvidia overlay" you don't mean GeForce Experience? I won't recommend using this crap. If you want FPS and such as overlay go with Afterburner/Riva Statistics Server.

 

 

 

 

I do use Riva statistics for my fps and other readings 😉 I tried with both Geforce experience enabled and disabled but the results are identical.

 

 

On 6/24/2021 at 12:16 AM, Flappie said:

If this only happens over Syria, you should monitor the response times of the Syria map files loadings I see in your screenshot.

Reach for other columns to the right of the resource manager. You should find one called "response time". You're supposed to find very little numbers here, such as these:

 

STUTTER.png

 

Here's a screenshot of one of the microstutter moments, as you can see the GPU utilization dropped to 41%, CPU stayed at 16% and the ms response times are quite low.

 

Anyway I did some more testing and I found out that the micro-stutters only happen during this custom mission which has quite a few triggers, scripts, AI units, static obj, audio files, etc...

 

If I try the same with an empty mission, same spot on Incirlik none of this happens and the GPU utilization is pinned at 99% with a smooth simulation. I get the same good results with any other mission/instant action/etc with any other of my modules (i.e. no stutters, GPU utilization at 99%, etc)

 

So my conclusion is that these stutters are directly related to this custom mission which is loaded with "stuff". Now, I don't know what exactly in this mission is causing stutters however 🤷‍♂️ Could be a trigger activation, an AI departing, a flag turning on but I have no idea unfortunately.

 

I have recorded some videos of this particular flight as well as the other "normal" flights where no stuttering occurs... If it could be of any help let me know and I'll post it
 

On 6/24/2021 at 1:30 AM, silverdevil said:

@Snakedoc - i see by your screenshot that you are flying hornet? i am wondering if you have tested with other aircraft. may be some relevance. 

 

swapped the hornet with an FC3 F15C and same story (stutters only in this particular mission), other scenarios are fine 

 

ASUS ROG STRIX Z490 F-GAMING | i7-10700K | RTX3090 TUF OC | 32GB DDR4 3200Mhz | Windows 10 64bit | Acer Predator X34P | TrackIR 5 | TM Warthog | TM T.Flight Rudder Pedals

A-10C | A-10C II | F/A-18C | F-16C | FC3 | PG | Syria | SC

Home made F-16C simulator
Forum Thread: DCS World forum - The Viper Project - Home Cockpits Instagram: 1583142 copia.jpg The Viper Project YouTube youtube-icon-512x512-874lspju.png The Viper Project - Youtube channel

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I said something stupid but, guys, anyone try to disable VSynch? I do it and any stutters disappear...I don't have Gsynch monitor or a pc specs for hight performance, that vsynch off is the only way for me.

Inviato dal mio SM-A405FN utilizzando Tapatalk

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54 minutes ago, Snakedoc said:

 

CPU stayed at 16% 

 

Those percentages regarding cpu are misleading. If only 2 cores can be utilized by a program an eight core cpu will be nailed to 25% even when it‘s the bottleneck.

"Muß ich denn jedes Mal, wenn ich sauge oder saugblase den Schlauchstecker in die Schlauchnut schieben?"

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While I normally do not touch Syria since it has always been a problem for me in VR I am seeing issues with FPS now but mostly in the F16 and F14 and J17. Before the patch I could run the same instant missions and get 40+ most of the time. Now for the J17 AAR instant mission it is always below 30 with no settings changes. Also clearing FXO never does anything so I wish people would stop with that. It is just like the old steam suggestion people give to verify files. Never fixes a damn thing. I did notice that changing the cloud quality seems to make a much bigger impact to FPS now for me. I used to run it on Ultra and now have to lower it to standard or low which looks terrible. In any plane if I go into a mission with heavy cloud layers my FPS is in the toilet getting near them. Goes to a slideshow.

System Specs: 13900K, Strix Z790 Gaming E, MSI 4090 Sprim Liquid X  OC'd, 64gb Gskill Trident Z DDR5, Samsung 980 PRO M.2 SSD,. Winwing throttle, Winwing panels/MIPs and VKB GF3/MCGU stick, MFG Crosswind V2, HP REVERB G2.

 

 

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After removing shaders and fxo a bunch of times and launching a SP mission first, instead of MP, after a fresh launch... I was able to minimize the stuttering, although still there. But at least now it is playable.

Something happened with this last Open Beta patch.

'Shadow'

 

Everybody gotta be offended and take it personally now-a-days

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On 6/25/2021 at 11:34 PM, Hiob said:

Those percentages regarding cpu are misleading. If only 2 cores can be utilized by a program an eight core cpu will be nailed to 25% even when it‘s the bottleneck.

 

Looking at the individual cores and threads there are no indications that there might be a CPU bottleneck whenever the microstutters occur (from afterburner you can see some spikes in the individual cores and thread usage but none of them are pinned at 100%)

 

picture below shows a screenshot just after a microstutter 

 

 

21 hours ago, silverdevil said:

@Snakedoc - can you share the mission? i would be interested to try it on my end.


Sorry but I am not the designer of the mission and at the moment I cannot share it

 

 

 

On 6/25/2021 at 10:47 PM, Flappie said:

Something caught my eye in your screenshot. Please try this:

 

 

Tried removing any Razer software but the effects are the same, still microstutters now and again with the "usual" gpu usage dip

 

 

screenshot.png

 

It seems again that (in my opinion) this behaviour is caused by the number of AI/scripts/triggers in this specific mission as it is more demanding than a simpler "empty" flight where no micro-suttering are occuring 

ASUS ROG STRIX Z490 F-GAMING | i7-10700K | RTX3090 TUF OC | 32GB DDR4 3200Mhz | Windows 10 64bit | Acer Predator X34P | TrackIR 5 | TM Warthog | TM T.Flight Rudder Pedals

A-10C | A-10C II | F/A-18C | F-16C | FC3 | PG | Syria | SC

Home made F-16C simulator
Forum Thread: DCS World forum - The Viper Project - Home Cockpits Instagram: 1583142 copia.jpg The Viper Project YouTube youtube-icon-512x512-874lspju.png The Viper Project - Youtube channel

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1 hour ago, Snakedoc said:

It seems again that (in my opinion) this behaviour is caused by the number of AI/scripts/triggers in this specific mission as it is more demanding than a simpler "empty" flight where no micro-suttering are occuring 

your summation is obvious and i agree. the more detail of the mission, the more resources used. any disk access will also lower performance. my squad has missions that are fairly involved and we do not seem to have stuttering.

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Yes it is obvious, the more units the more resources required... but what's odd (at least for my build) is that these micro stutters happen only on Syria map since 2.7.2. Raven 1 campaign on PG, The enemy within 3.0 on Caucasus, Maple flags training campaigns for the A-10 etc have all very demanding and detailed missions and hardware/resources requirements are high but I encounter no such issues there

 

Anyway thanks for all the inputs people, hopefully further optimization of Syria map and DCS will happen in the future


Edited by Snakedoc

ASUS ROG STRIX Z490 F-GAMING | i7-10700K | RTX3090 TUF OC | 32GB DDR4 3200Mhz | Windows 10 64bit | Acer Predator X34P | TrackIR 5 | TM Warthog | TM T.Flight Rudder Pedals

A-10C | A-10C II | F/A-18C | F-16C | FC3 | PG | Syria | SC

Home made F-16C simulator
Forum Thread: DCS World forum - The Viper Project - Home Cockpits Instagram: 1583142 copia.jpg The Viper Project YouTube youtube-icon-512x512-874lspju.png The Viper Project - Youtube channel

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Out of curiosity what are your advanced power settings set to? I had a lot of stuttering issues which were resolved by selecting either high or extreme power plan instead of the 'stock' balanced.

AMD Ryzen 5 5600X; ASUS ROG Strix X570-F, Corsair Vengeance 64 GB (2x 32GB) 3600MHz; Seagate FireCuda 510 500GB M.2-2280 (OS); Samsung 860 EVO 2TB M.2-2280 (DCS); MSI GeForce RTX 3090 SUPRIM X 24GB OC GPU. TM Warthog Hotas; T.Flight Pedals; DelanClip/Trackhat.

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