Hornet fans, Why do you prefer the Hornet more than the Viper beside it being a more complete module?

[MTM]

I’m just now learning the Viper, so my feeling about it might change, but it seems like the systems in the hornet are more intuitive and easier to use. The sensor integration on the Hornet is better. It’s easier to keep track of where you are, where the threats are, and where your targets are. 
 

With respect to maneuverability, the Viper has the advantage on speed and acceleration, but I’ve found when the Hornet is flown correctly it’s an absolute beast in a dogfight! 
 

In my limited experience with the Viper so far, the only advantage I give it is the 6 maverick loadout. Mav is my favorite A-G weapon and unfortunately the Hornet just comes up short on that point. 

[VpR81]

15 minutes ago, BamJr said:

But I still prefer the long press/short press logic of the 16 over slewing the TDC from one end to the other of the MFD

I cannot disagree. But have to admit, that using 2 respective 3 TM Cougar MFDs was a game changer in MFD control with both jets, especially with the Hornet and also when switching to VR. I rarely use the HOTAS functions for MFD control in the Hornet (only during dogfights and other stressy situation were i don't want to take my hands off the stick/throttle) since pushing the button on the MFD is faster than using the TDC slew and way faster than grabbing the mouse.

[BamJr]

41 minuti fa, VpR81 ha scritto:

I cannot disagree. But have to admit, that using 2 respective 3 TM Cougar MFDs was a game changer in MFD control with both jets, especially with the Hornet and also when switching to VR. I rarely use the HOTAS functions for MFD control in the Hornet (only during dogfights and other stressy situation were i don't want to take my hands off the stick/throttle) since pushing the button on the MFD is faster than using the TDC slew and way faster than grabbing the mouse.

I've had several friends recommend me those. I'll probably end up buying or building myself a couple in the near future.

[Smashy]

2 hours ago, wilbur81 said:

 

agreed... which is why I've mapped all of the following radar functions to my HOTAS by assigning the appropriate OSB's to my stick and throttle:

- Radar modes (RWS/TWS/MAP/GMT etc.)

- Azimuth

- Elevation

- Bar scan units

- Range

- Auto/Man

- PRF settings

 

I operate all of these without taking my hands off.

 

Exactly the same here but instead of Auto/Man I have RESET mapped.  I find myself never hitting RESET and sometimes having to press my MFD button for AUTO/MAN, so I'm going to copy your setup.  Also, elevation is a defined HOTAS function and the same binds can also be used to zoom the ATFLIR/LITENING.  No OSB mapping needed.  I'm positive you knew that but just clarifying!

[wilbur81]

1 hour ago, Smashy said:

 

Exactly the same here but instead of Auto/Man I have RESET mapped.  I find myself never hitting RESET and sometimes having to press my MFD button for AUTO/MAN, so I'm going to copy your setup.  Also, elevation is a defined HOTAS function and the same binds can also be used to zoom the ATFLIR/LITENING.  No OSB mapping needed.  I'm positive you knew that but just clarifying!

Yeah, I'm more of an air-to-air guy so I am constantly swapping between AUTO and MAN in an engagement... and yes, I just use the standard Elev/Zoom Hornet HOTAS function; don't know why I added that in my list above. 

 

Side note: I use a "shift" button on my WH Stick in order to control the map scale and some other things on the HSI/SA pages via HOTAS. How anyone can be competitive/quick in a jet like the Hornet using the mouse/clickable cockpit  is absolutely beyond me... 

Edited June 25, 2021 by wilbur81

[Shimmergloom667]

27 minutes ago, wilbur81 said:

Side note: I use a "shift" button on my WH Stick in order to control the map scale and some other things on the HSI/SA pages via HOTAS. How anyone can be competitive/quick in a jet like the Hornet using the mouse/clickable cockpit  is absolutely beyond me... 

 

Practice. When the real bird doesn't have HOTAS commands for that stuff then I refuse to put that on my HOTAS as well. Between using the TDC select options and some clicking with my mouse I don't see differences in my speed of working avionice between the Hornet and Viper.

 

[Tholozor]

1 hour ago, wilbur81 said:

Side note: I use a "shift" button on my WH Stick in order to control the map scale and some other things on the HSI/SA pages via HOTAS.

 

You can also bump the range scale on the SA page with the TDC just like bumping the range on the radar page if you want to save a keybind.

[wilbur81]

35 minutes ago, Tholozor said:

You can also bump the range scale on the SA page with the TDC just like bumping the range on the radar page if you want to save a keybind.

I appreciate that, but I cannot stand the TDC slewing/clicking feature. It is just way too slow an imprecise compared to the click of a button. However, I'm sure it will be a bit better when the TDC slew is accelerated... which I read here is coming. 

[Wizard_03]

More gas, more boom boom, more screens, and Boat stuff.

 

And high AOA controllability is so much more useful in dogfights with missiles. 

[Strider1_Trigger]

2 hours ago, wilbur81 said:

Yeah, I'm more of an air-to-air guy so I am constantly swapping between AUTO and MAN in an engagement... and yes, I just use the standard Elev/Zoom Hornet HOTAS function; don't know why I added that in my list above. 

 

Side note: I use a "shift" button on my WH Stick in order to control the map scale and some other things on the HSI/SA pages via HOTAS. How anyone can be competitive/quick in a jet like the Hornet using the mouse/clickable cockpit  is absolutely beyond me... 

 

I’m curious, what do you do when you face better air to air fighters such as the F-14, F-15, and F-16 in the Hornet? They have a kinetic advantage over you and you can’t run away from the fight.

Edited June 25, 2021 by Strider1_Trigger

[jwflowersii]

As someone who is learning the 16 now, I feel like the biggest difference is in the JHCMS.  I'm not sure if that portion is complete at the moment, but the situational awareness given by the JHCMS in the F/A-18C is what sets it apart.  Once you learn the avionics I don't see a big difference in capabilities except for switching between weapon systems quickly.  The speed and altitude abilities of the F-16C would give it an advantage over the Hornet in BVR for sure.  Does anyone know if the JHCMS is completed on the Viper?

[Vortex225]

tl;dr: Hornet has better SA tools, better avionics, and a more capable radar. Much easier to fight smarter in the F/A-18C. Also, the kinematic advantages of the Viper don't have as big of an effect in BVR against skilled pilots. Most fights will drift into WVR ranges after both pilots have notched the first missile. Inside 20nm, the Hornet is a stone cold killer--especially with best-in-class nose/AOA authority.

The Hornet also typically has better endurance (but not range), which is often more useful in DCS multiplayer servers. Finally, the payload options are just better with the Hornet--and it gets the SLAM-ER (which is amazing).

[Stearmandriver]

6 hours ago, Strider1_Trigger said:

I’m curious, what do you do when you face better air to air fighters such as the F-14, F-15, and F-16 in the Hornet? They have a kinetic advantage over you and you can’t run away from the fight.

 

You don't need a kinetic advantage if you've got missiles... then it comes down to nose pointing, and if handled well, none of those aircraft can match the Hornet in that regard. 

[wilbur81]

13 minutes ago, Stearmandriver said:

You don't need a kinetic advantage if you've got missiles... then it comes down to nose pointing, and if handled well, none of those aircraft can match the Hornet in that regard. 

Not to derail this discussion, but this statement isn't accurate. A Viper traveling at M 1.6 at 40K feet is going to be more lethal than a Hornet at 36K and M 1.1... that AMRAAM they are both carrying likes the higher, faster start...no question. High speed, High altitude intercept is not the Hornet's jam.

[Tholozor]

1 hour ago, wilbur81 said:

Not to derail this discussion, but this statement isn't accurate. A Viper traveling at M 1.6 at 40K feet is going to be more lethal than a Hornet at 36K and M 1.1... that AMRAAM they are both carrying likes the higher, faster start...no question. High speed, High altitude intercept is not the Hornet's jam.

Kinematics are definitely a big thing, there's no question there, however once the 16's radar gets nerfed, that speed & angles advantage will be somewhat mitigated by the 18's higher detection range, giving it a first-shot advantage.

[Stearmandriver]

Solid point, I had taken that question to refer to post-merge, since kinematics were mentioned in the context of extending and running.  But yes, for the initial shot the viper has the launch advantage.  The Hornet has plenty enough for a notching defense or J-pole though.  (In DCS; no idea how true any of this is in real life.) 

[VpR81]

20 hours ago, BamJr said:

I've had several friends recommend me those. I'll probably end up buying or building myself a couple in the near future.

You won't regret!

 

14 hours ago, Strider1_Trigger said:

I’m curious, what do you do when you face better air to air fighters such as the F-14, F-15, and F-16 in the Hornet? They have a kinetic advantage over you and you can’t run away from the fight.

Better in BVR, yes. Better in dogfighting? debatable... flown to it's strength, the Hornet is a beast in dogfighting and by far not an easy kill for other fighters. Send an AMRAAM at max range. Not to kill him (won't work anyways if he knows what he's doing) but to keep him busy and force him defensive. After your first shot, instantly dive for the deck and go cold. As soon as you defeated his missile (he WILL take the first shot), recommit, send another AMRAAM and go cold again. Doesen't matter if your missile has a chance to hit him, what matters is that he has something to think about. Drag him down to lower altitudes. You want him busy, defensive and maneuvering to bleed his energy. Repeat the complete procedure until his kinetic advantage is gone and you're entering WVR combat. Then beat him with your AOA authority. This is how it works for me, but it needs some patience.

Edited June 26, 2021 by VpR81

[falcon_120]

For me, it's the much more sophisticated avionics in general and MSI in particular (especially after missing features are implemented). The amount of situational awareness, sensor integration and target management that the Hornet can offer cannot be matched by the Viper. That's the biggest one.

Could you expand on what is missing? And it what degree offers additional SA over the viper? (Although for me the RWR on the hud gives me better SA that is already a good reason)

Enviado desde mi ELE-L29 mediante Tapatalk

[wilbur81]

10 hours ago, Stearmandriver said:

Solid point, I had taken that question to refer to post-merge, since kinematics were mentioned in the context of extending and running.  But yes, for the initial shot the viper has the launch advantage.  The Hornet has plenty enough for a notching defense or J-pole though.  (In DCS; no idea how true any of this is in real life.) 

Post-merge, you are exactly right. 

10 hours ago, Tholozor said:

Kinematics are definitely a big thing, there's no question there, however once the 16's radar gets nerfed, that speed & angles advantage will be somewhat mitigated by the 18's higher detection range, giving it a first-shot advantage.

True. Vipers in DCS currently can launch at you from 60+ miles out, at M 2.02 and 40K feet. Won't happen when they get their radars "fixed" to be more realistic like the Hornets.

[dundun92]

14 minutes ago, wilbur81 said:

 

True. Vipers in DCS currently can launch at you from 60+ miles out, at M 2.02 and 40K feet. Won't happen when they get their radars "fixed" to be more realistic like the Hornets.

Now the Eagles will start doing that to you

[wilbur81]

Just now, dundun92 said:

Now the Eagles will start doing that to you

Indeed... as it should be.  I'm still bummed that ED isn't planning on the F-15C in-house. I have zero interest in the Mud-hen. Some jets were made to be two-seaters and look beautiful that way (Tomcat), some jets are profane with that back seat (Eagle). 

[Brass2-1]

I actually hopped into the Viper for a few hours last night (I do own both) and was pondering this thread while fighting. 
 

For me, it comes down to SA and switchology.

 

Having the third MFD with the SA Page, plus Az/El and Attack Radar up front is a boatload of information available. To add to that, the RWR being displayed on both the HUD and JHMCS as well as the datalink integration into the HMCS are truly game changers. Should more of these features be implemented into the Viper, it would certainly close the gap. 
 

Personally I really dislike the stores management and HOTAS switchology in the Viper, it’s one redeeming feature for me is the fast slewable range and azimuth changes on the radar. 

The Viper’s raw power/speed is a great tool, but I do find that first-launch capability isn’t super relevant as most competent players can and will defeat long-range missile shots with ease. Once the fight moves inside 5-10 miles, the Hornet’s ability to point the nose (given current flight models) is a force to be reckoned with. Cashing in to make use of the AOA ability does require some confidence and commitment as you do sacrifice a lot of energy to point the Hornet. 
 

I am eager to work with the HTS and HARMS in the future as development continues, they’re really the reason I bought the Viper, so I’m along for the ride regardless. 

Edited June 26, 2021 by Brass2-1

[wilbur81]

29 minutes ago, Brass2-1 said:

Cashing in to make use of the AOA ability does require some confidence and commitment as you do sacrifice a lot of energy to point the Hornet. 

This is such a key, important point. 

[ruddy122]

More than 2 JDAMs

The Hornet could launch 8 JSOW C

Wow a Multirole bomb truck


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The Viper and the Hornet were basically the same in real life

The Navy wanted extra safety in Blue Water Ops

After that the story of the bug for the navy continues


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Baaz]

Personally, I don't like flying F-18 or the F-16; both are too advanced for my tastes (preferring aircraft of the early Vietnam War era).  

 

That being said, I prefer the F-18 because:

 

1)  Carrier Ops;

2)  I find it more intuitive, and easier to understand;

3)  I prefer the looks of it over the F-16;
4)  Carrier Ops;

5)  I hate Jester, and the F-18 is the only other carrier capable plane for Blue (aside from mods);

6)  Carrier Ops;

7)  Have I mentioned carrier ops?

These days I find myself flying the A-4 and F-5 above all else (other than helos).  In the future I look forward to flying the F-4U (yep, carrier ops), A-6, A-7, F-4 Phantom (hoping for Navy version), and the F-8.  Some day, although not carrier based, I also hope for an F-100 and F-105.