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Leo Bodnar 12-pos switches

Kercheiz

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Kercheiz

Kercheiz

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Hi,

 

I recently purchased a BBI-32 Leo Bodnar board with a couple of 12-pos selectors, as they are very interesting to reduce the amount of wire mess in my Mirage-2000 right panel.

 

However, I can't have them to work well. When switching slowly from 1 to 12, other random positions switch on for very short times.

 

Does anyone have any experience with these?

 

Thanks!

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Grennymaster

Grennymaster

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i dont use these 12 pos, but i use also an BBI 64. so i try to help 🙂

first of all check if you connectet the switches correctly. second check the software, if im right you have to turn the botton to 1:1 in the software. also check the puls rate, that can be an issiu to.

 

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Kercheiz

Kercheiz

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Hi,

 

It's not an encoder. I have 4 encoders on the BBI32, configured properly with the ratio. They work perfect. Used for ILS & TACAN.

 

This is a special 12 position switch sold by Leo Bodnar for use with the BBI-32 exclusively. The big advantage, it makes a 12 pos selector, using only one input and two wires.

http://www.leobodnar.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=207

 

I connected it as documented. It somewhat works, as the "stable" button output is the selected position button ON, and all other buttons OFF.

But, when switching position, instead of generating only a OFF event for the old position and an ON event for the new one, many spurious ON/OFF short events are generated for random positions. And as DCS always takes the last event only the corresponding cockpit switch ends up in a random position.

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yogi149

yogi149

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Hi,

 

vor 17 Stunden schrieb No1sonuk:

I can't find a definitive answer on how they work.

they work with a resistor array.

Every position add (as far as I know) 1k Ohm, so avery position changes the resulting voltage on the signal wire.

It might be, that your USB source is not as stable as it should be.

regards / gruesse yogi

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No1sonuk

No1sonuk

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2 hours ago, yogi149 said:

Hi,

 

they work with a resistor array.

Every position add (as far as I know) 1k Ohm, so avery position changes the resulting voltage on the signal wire.

It might be, that your USB source is not as stable as it should be.

That was one of the suggestions, but then there was someone equally as adamant it was some kind of encoder.

The resistor idea is the one I favour, but the fact it's 2 wires is a bit problematic - a voltage divider requires 3 wires.  The only other option I can think of is the old capacitor charge method, but that requires the hardware to be set up for it.
 

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Sokol1_br

Sokol1_br

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On 6/24/2021 at 1:31 PM, Kercheiz said:

It's not an encoder. I have 4 encoders on the BBI32, configured properly with the ratio. T

 

Just in case, these Bodnar rotary switch are not encoder, but the PCB under can be for make they work like an encoder,* so have you tried set then as encoder?

 

Example of rotary multi-position switch wired to be used as encoder, using the "Table of Truth" binary code:

 

http://www.737ng.co.uk/switch_as_encoder.pdf

http://www.737ng.co.uk/simple encoder.pdf

http://www.737ng.co.uk/technical.htm

 

In this topic an example of use a Fender 4 positions switch for flaps control, through the "Table of Truth" code.

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/29873-mjoy16-usb-circuit-board/page/2/#elControls_555531_menu

 

* Why use these and not conventional encoder?

Because they have a better tactile feedback when changing positions. 😉 

 

This wiring give 1, 2, 3, 4 if turned right and 4, 3, 2, 1 if turned left.

 

rotary-modificada.jpg

 

If you want just a 1,2 ... 12 positions switch, bought one without that resistor PCB, and wire each position in one BU0836* button input. So have 1,2 ... 12 and 12, 11 ... 1 buttons pressed.

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Kercheiz

Kercheiz

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No. These LB switches are 12 pos selectors, not encoders. They have 13 pins (12 + 1 common) and you can’t go from pos 1 to 12 and conversely, the movement is blocked.

They are modified by LB with an extra round board having the exact switch footprint, converting the 13 pins to a 2-pin signal specifically designed for the BBI32 board, using only a single input, and resulting in 12 logical switches. I suppose the 12 inputs are converted to some binary sequence recognized by the LB firmware 

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Kercheiz

Kercheiz

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On 6/27/2021 at 8:10 PM, yogi149 said:

Hi, on the PCB behind this 12 pos switches are 11 1k resistor

The BBI-32 uses a special firmware to calculate a position on summary of the resistors.

 

Thanks for the information! So it would seem that resistivity is measured.

 

Do you have any successful use of these switches? I just tried with two brand new ones, without anything else plugged on the BBI-32. I have tried to change the index of the first virtual switch to 33 so that it doesn't overlap with physical switches.

 

The result was always the same : stable button state is correct, but upon switching from a position to the next or previous one, I get around 2-3 short spurious ON/OFF events from other buttons, in a random order. Since all DCS modules seem to work on "ON" events only for multiposition switches, the cockpit button ends up on a random position.

Here is for instance what I get when switching from 24 to 25: 

6,f,Button 24,UP,2453
7,f,Button 28,DOWN,2453
8,f,Button 27,DOWN,16
9,f,Button 28,UP,16
10,f,Button 25,DOWN,0
11,f,Button 27,UP,0

So I get a 24 UP and 25 DOWN as expected, but also two short pulses for 27 and 28. DCS doesn't like that at all.

 

I contacted LB about this, he suggested me to disable other encoders in the board config tool. I did that and even disconnected anything else but the switch, with no improvement.

 

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yogi149

yogi149

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vor 1 Minute schrieb Kercheiz:

Do you have any successful use of these switches?

Hi, no I measured them when I get some for a customer.

but I think that the power supply of the USB interface could have an influence. If the 5V are not constant, the result will be different.

Or the contacts in the rotary switch are not particularly well suited for this process. 🙄

regards / gruesse yogi

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Kercheiz

Kercheiz

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1 hour ago, yogi149 said:

Hi, no I measured them when I get some for a customer.

but I think that the power supply of the USB interface could have an influence. If the 5V are not constant, the result will be different.

Or the contacts in the rotary switch are not particularly well suited for this process. 🙄

 

If it's just a current or voltage measurement, maybe a cap could filter the mess out.

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Kercheiz

Kercheiz

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On 6/27/2021 at 6:38 PM, Sokol1_br said:

 

If you want just a 1,2 ... 12 positions switch, bought one without that resistor PCB, and wire each position in one BU0836* button input. So have 1,2 ... 12 and 12, 11 ... 1 buttons pressed.

 

You can't use a selector switch with more than 6 positions on a BU0836* as it's a 6x6 matrix input. The 12 switches have a single common pole so you can't matrix them. You need a BBI-32 or BBI-64 for that, but it will be a wire mess for a couple of switches. The BBI-32 specific 12-pos selector solution is, if it works as intended, very interesting.

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No1sonuk

No1sonuk

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I think the spurious responses while switching are a product of the switch itself - there's no instant change from one position to the next, so in between positions, the switch is effectively connected to another position briefly.

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Kercheiz

Kercheiz

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I forgot to post the end of the story : Leo Bodnar acknowledged a bad batch, and sent me perfectly working switches for free : perfect customer support!

These switches are really handy, you get a 12 pos switch triggering 12 logical buttons, with a single wire pair. I needed 7 of these, this avoids turning my button box into a noodle soup.

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lesthegrngo

lesthegrngo

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Thanks for completing the feedback - often people don't report back when they find a solution or (as I have found sometimes) they realise something was wrong with the way they were being used. I have to say that your experience with Bodnar stuff is in line with mine, I have nothing but praise for them and the way they operate.

A question regarding the rotary switches - can you limit them physically to a certain number of positions, or is is a constant rotation 12 position switch?

Les

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Rapti

Rapti

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5 hours ago, Kercheiz said:

I forgot to post the end of the story : Leo Bodnar acknowledged a bad batch, and sent me perfectly working switches for free : perfect customer support!

These switches are really handy, you get a 12 pos switch triggering 12 logical buttons, with a single wire pair. I needed 7 of these, this avoids turning my button box into a noodle soup.

wow cool! i have about 4 such 12 pos switches. They all have the same behavior as you described. Then I will probably write to the support of them. Thanks for the feedback!

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lesthegrngo

lesthegrngo

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On 6/27/2021 at 9:10 PM, yogi149 said:

Hi,

 

on the PCB behind this 12 pos switches are 11 1k resistor

BBI-32-12p.png

The BBI-32 uses a special firmware to calculate a position on summary of the resistors.

Thanks for the explanation, I have a BBI-32 and this is easy enough to replicate on a PCB especially as I always mount mine on a custom PCB. 

Cheers

 

Les

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lesthegrngo

lesthegrngo

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All, looking at this diagram below, it's clear that this would equally apply to a series of linear buttons too if connected in series with the 1K resistors between them

On 6/27/2021 at 9:10 PM, yogi149 said:

Hi,

 

on the PCB behind this 12 pos switches are 11 1k resistor

 

The BBI-32 uses a special firmware to calculate a position on summary of the resistors.

So, if my thinking is right, switch heavy panels like the A10C CDU, UFC, MFCD's could have the number of necessary pinouts reduced by a factor of 11 by wiring up the switches in 'ladders' of 12 separated by 1K resistors, correct? Obviously you have to have the right Bodnar board (I do) but I could seriously reduce to wiring in that way.

Or am I understanding it wrong?

******EDIT*********

Ignore me, I was understanding it wrong, I forgot to factor in the dynamic nature of the switch. I would have to use 11 different resistors and if two were pressed at onece it would completely mess it up

Les


Edited by lesthegrngo
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