correct as-is Litening TGP Magnification wrong?

[Jafferson]

 

Hallo all, i have made a comperation of the Litening pods. Left is a image of a TGP from the A10C II , and right is a image of a TGP from the F18C. The zoom level of the F18 appears lower, magnification with the A10C is higher.

Both aircrafts using the same pod Litening II

I gues the magnification shold be the same?

Tell me what you think, if someone can explain, is this intentional or a bug?

[BioZ]

As far as I know zoom levels were relatively the same, but after the addition of ATFLIR Pod they have cut the Litening pod zoom level because people were complaining that ATFLIR is useless since Litening has superior zoom levels.

2.7.1.6430 Update Changelog

Edited June 24, 2021 by BioZ

[Swift.]

24 minutes ago, BioZ said:

As far as I know zoom levels were relatively the same, but after the addition of ATFLIR Pod they have cut the Litening pod zoom level because people were complaining that ATFLIR is useless since Litening has a superior zoom levels.

2.7.1.6430 Update Changelog

 

Thats not really what people were complaining about. The complaint was about digital zoom being too good and not degrading the image quality like it should.

[Harker]

2 hours ago, Swiftwin9s said:

Thats not really what people were complaining about. The complaint was about digital zoom being too good and not degrading the image quality like it should.

So instead of blurring digital zoom, they limit the zoom level and only on the Hornet. Again, the same pod works differently on different jets. These changes, for one way or another, need to be global, not module-specific.

[MrReynolds]

Always preferred the A10 TGP screen.  It's just right for me.  Obviously not from a professional mil point of view, just gameplay.

[Burt]

I wanted to practice the Hornet and Mavs the other day and noticed the Zoom level for the Flir and TGP was terrible. I think I may have missed some information about it what ahs changed. Before , a few months ago I was able to zoom in pretty good on the target. I usually practice with GazAce nail Moving Target mission. So they reduced the zoom level for the Hornet? Dang ! Why !

Edited June 28, 2021 by Burt

[Harker]

So they reduced the zoom level for the Hornet? Dang ! Why !

The issue is that the LITENING we have only has two levels of optical zoom, WIDE and NAR. The 1-9 zoom levels are digital zoom and as such, the more you zoom in with them, the worse the picture quality should get. This isn't simulated and thus led to the pod vastly overperforming in terms of image quality when zoomed in.

The correct approach would be to keep the digital zoom as is and make the picture worse and worse as you zoom in. ED, however, instead decided to limit how much you can zoom, but still keep the picture perfectly clear. It sort of achieves the intended effect of not letting you see details from further away than you're supposed to.

I'm guessing it's a temporary measure until sensor effects are reworked.

[Burt]

Thanks Harker !

[BioZ]

It is probably a temporal feature while the new FLIR technology for DCS is being developed. 

What is interesting is that HB has developed a really good and independent solution to their LANTIRN TGP, it looks great.

Edited June 29, 2021 by BioZ

[Jafferson]

Ok, so its a temporal feature until we get a FLIR update, lets hope so. Would be nice if a offical can confirm this.

At the moment its a huge disadvantage, in comperation F/A-18C feels like a Sniper Rifle without a Scope.

How ever, i did more testings with the F-16 and the AV-8B, result is stunning.

Ain't own the JF-17, if someone can provide a TGP picture BTR on 20NM, would be interesting.

[Santi871]

This is not temporary or a bandaid. The maximum digital zoom for the variant being modeled in the Hornet is 3.5x in 9 levels. If you want to check what other modules are doing, probably best to do it in their forum sections

[Jafferson]

We support DCS because ED is trying to provide Simulations accurate as possible. All the work and fine adjustements for Missile aerodynamics and ballistic, every singel Missile type is different. Its absolute fantastic.

But we talk about the Litening II , its the same type of sensor for all 4 aircrafts modeled in different ways.

The capabilities of the Litening II shold be the same for all modules.

 

The F/A-18C with a Litening II worse than the others will lower the quality of the whole module, i wont belive ED will let this happen.

The capabilities of the Litening II shold be the same for all modules.

 

I guess i saw a video from Wags recently talking about a FLIR update, if Wags could give us a statement we would be thankful.

 

Edited July 3, 2021 by Jafferson

[OUO]

12小时前,Jafferson说:

Ok, so its a temporal feature until we get a FLIR update, lets hope so. Would be nice if a offical can confirm this.

At the moment its a huge disadvantage, in comperation F/A-18C feels like a Sniper Rifle without a Scope.

How ever, i did more testings with the F-16 and the AV-8B, result is stunning.

Ain't own the JF-17, if someone can provide a TGP picture BTR on 20NM, would be interesting.

[Jafferson]

5 hours ago, OUO said:

Thank you for the picture, looks like the JF-17 got a pretty good picture even without zoom. I try to imagine how the POD picture looks when maximum zoom is used.  

 

JF-17 got diffrent pod, is not a Litening II. But its good for capability reference.

Edited July 3, 2021 by Jafferson

[OUO]

15分钟前,Jafferson说:

Thank you for the picture, looks like the JF-17 got a pretty good picture even without zoom. I try to imagine how the POD picture looks when maximum zoom is used.  

This is the maximum zoom

[Jafferson]

1 hour ago, OUO said:

This is the maximum zoom

The box around the aiming cross was confusing me, with the Litening II it's usually the area for the FOV magnification.

Ok JF-17 POD is not as good as i thought.

Looks like ED have downgraded the Litening II for the F/A-18C to match the capabilitys of the JF-17, probable for gameplay balance?

This could mean a breake of the companys policy of developing proper simulations.

 

Can we have a offical statement about this situation please.

Will we get a Max zoom correction for the Litening II to match the capabilitys of the A-10C and F-16C Litening II POD's in a later update when the problem with the Digital zoom is corrected?

Edited July 3, 2021 by Jafferson

[Swift.]

3 hours ago, Jafferson said:

The box around the aiming cross was confusing me, with the Litening II it's usually the area for the FOV magnification.

Ok JF-17 POD is not as good as i thought.

Looks like ED have downgraded the Litening II for the F/A-18C to match the capabilitys of the JF-17, probable for gameplay balance?

This could mean a breake of the companys policy of developing proper simulations.

 

Can we have a offical statement about this situation please.

Will we get a Max zoom correction for the Litening II to match the capabilitys of the A-10C and F-16C Litening II POD's in a later update when the problem with the Digital zoom is corrected?

 

Santi has literally explained what's going on a few comments ago, everyone is just ignoring it for some reason.

[Hulkbust44]

On 7/2/2021 at 3:06 PM, Jafferson said:

 

But we talk about the Litening II , its the same type of sensor for all 4 aircrafts modeled in different ways.

The capabilities of the Litening II should be the same for all modules.

 

The F/A-18C with a Litening II worse than the others will lower the quality of the whole module, i wont believe ED will let this happen.

The capabilities of the Litening II should be the same for all modules.

 

Okay, let's fix something. Only the F-16C and F/A-18C have the same LITENING II. The Harrier has a LITENING Gen IV and the A-10C has a LITENING AT.
So, the magnification in this case should be equal to that of the Viper's, and both should have the pixelated effects of digital zoom. You can see here where Heatblur got it right for the Tomcat's LANTRIN. Either way, you should just use the ATFLIR with it's 5 levels of optical zoom.

[Jafferson]

23 hours ago, Hulkbust44 said:

Okay, let's fix something. Only the F-16C and F/A-18C have the same LITENING II. The Harrier has a LITENING Gen IV and the A-10C has a LITENING AT.
So, the magnification in this case should be equal to that of the Viper's, and both should have the pixelated effects of digital zoom. You can see here where Heatblur got it right for the Tomcat's LANTRIN. Either way, you should just use the ATFLIR with it's 5 levels of optical zoom.

We cant compare the Litening II with the LANTRIN pod. What version of the Litening II do we have for the f18 module right now?

My opinion comes from the assumption its a Litening II AT, the same like in the A10C.

[Shimmergloom667]

8 hours ago, Jafferson said:

We cant compare the Litening II with the LANTRIN pod. What version of the Litening II do we have for the f18 module right now?

My opinion comes from the assumption its a Litening II AT, the same like in the A10C.

Of course we can compare the LITENING to the LANTIRN. While the LITENING (and you are right in that we probably have the LITENING II AT in all LITENING equpped birds) should deliver a somewhat higher clarity than the LANTIRN, it absolutely should have digital zoom and the associated loss of resolution modeled, resulting in blobs similar, but maybe not as bad as the LANTIRN.

 

There. I compared the two.

 

Bottom line: our LITENING is overperforming since forever, in the A-10, the F-18 and F-16. THAT should be tuned, and would consequently make the ATFLIR (and in future the SNIPER) stand out more.

 

I am fairly certain we will see those things modeled when the IR render rework arrives at some point in the future.

[Jafferson]

ED did a good job with a degraded picture with the F16 TGP, its the same pod for all 3 aircrafts F16/F18/A10 but modeld in different ways. and the F18 got less zoom? Makes no sense to me, to model a new pod for every new aircraft. Why they not modeling 1 Pod of a version usable for all capable aircraft?

To model a new pod for every new aircraft is like invending a new wheel, over and over again.

Dont know how its coded and even posible, but this could save a lot of time.

[Tholozor]

21 minutes ago, Jafferson said:

ED did a good job with a degraded picture with the F16 TGP, its the same pod for all 3 aircrafts F16/F18/A10 but modeld in different ways. and the F18 got less zoom? Makes no sense to me, to model a new pod for every new aircraft. Why they not modeling 1 Pod of a version usable for all capable aircraft?

To model a new pod for every new aircraft is like invending a new wheel, over and over again.

Dont know how its coded and even posible, but this could save a lot of time.

Targeting pods aren't plug-and-play like that. They have to be integrated differently with the aircraft's sensors and controls. Not to mention the sensor logic. Most of the top-level options on the display pages aren't provided by the pod, that all comes from the aircraft's avionics (e.g. Cursor Zero in the F-16, or the VVSLV function on the Hornet). Just because the pod can be moved between aircraft doesn't mean they communicate with the mission computers the same.

 

As far as zoom level, that will hardly matter if we ever get the correct digital zoom like in the LANTIRN.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Tholozor